tas Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 6 minutes ago, Provost said: Since the salary cap was introduced… It is different than players getting extra paycheques during playoffs. It is that playoff revenue is part of HRR, so escrow or amounts paid to the players are affected by the playoff revenue. https://www.davemanuel.com/investor-dictionary/hockey-related-revenues/ I didn't think playoff revenue was included in hrr, my mistake. nevertheless, players sacrificing their bodies for the love of the game for an extra quarter season aren't going to agree to that rule in collective bargaining without financial concessions from the owners. it's bad for their teams and it's potentially bad for their health, putting them in positions where they feel like they have to play through injuries they shouldn't because they don't want to hurt their team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, Kragar said: The salary numbers are in place. The fact the players aren't getting paid should have no bearing on the matter. Someone gets injured, someone else can take his spot, just like any other time. If LTIR is needed, so be it. This is not complicated to implement. Getting it passed whatever idiot GMs/owners like it this way could be another story. it's the players you'd have to convince, not the owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRocket18 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 So what does Calgary end up with from selling their dcorps this year? Kuzy Hunter Jurmo Grushnikov 1 4th 3 3rds potentially 2 2nds? 1 1st Plus whatever they get for hanafin. Wasn't that close to Jim's plan oh and Gillis too right... Whatever, I'm just happy Byram is outta Colorado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 7 minutes ago, tas said: it's the players you'd have to convince, not the owners. Why would they care? They aren't paid any different AFAIK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Kragar said: Why would they care? They aren't paid any different AFAIK. because it's imposing limitations on team payroll that aren't in place currently, whether people think they should be or not. edit: think of it like this (ie. without the jaded goggles of a conspiracy theorist): some game in late february, petey gets cross checked into the boards and breaks his leg. with the freed up cap space, the canucks are able acquire, say, guentzel, to try to salvage their season. by some stroke of luck, the team catches fire and goes on a run to the finals. in a miracle recovery, petey is healthy enough in time for the finals. should the guy who carried the team throughout the season have to sit despite being healthy or should the guy they brought in who helped them make it through the playoffs have to sit despite being healthy? which one of those is more fair than the system currently in place? who gets to tell the guy that isn't being paid at all that his salary is too high so he doesn't get to play in the finals? Edited March 7 by tas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 16 minutes ago, tas said: I didn't think playoff revenue was included in hrr, my mistake. nevertheless, players sacrificing their bodies for the love of the game for an extra quarter season aren't going to agree to that rule in collective bargaining without financial concessions from the owners. it's bad for their teams and it's potentially bad for their health, putting them in positions where they feel like they have to play through injuries they shouldn't because they don't want to hurt their team. Explain how it would be an iota different than now? It seems like it would he reverse what you are saying if anything. There is suddenly no motivation for Stone to rush back for the playoffs as he can’t dress unless he bumps out someone at an equal cap hit. No motivation for the team to push him either. Most teams manage just fine without an extra $20 million in returning players so it doesn’t affect them at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) 9 minutes ago, tas said: because it's imposing limitations on team payroll that aren't in place currently, whether people think they should be or not. 3 minutes ago, Provost said: Explain how it would be an iota different than now? It seems like it would he reverse what you are saying if anything. There is suddenly no motivation for Stone to rush back for the playoffs as he can’t dress unless he bumps out someone at an equal cap hit. No motivation for the team to push him either. Most teams manage just fine without an extra $20 million in returning players so it doesn’t affect them at all. see my above post edit: I really hate forum software on mobile. not the post of mine I accidentally quoted here. the last post I made in the thread. Edited March 7 by tas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 5 minutes ago, tas said: because it's imposing limitations on team payroll that aren't in place currently, whether people think they should be or not. They aren't getting salary in the playoffs, though, so again, why would they care? You've yet to show the advantage the players get from the existing situation. What I'm arguing for is for teams to be cap compliant during playoffs. If someone goes on LITR, pre-TDL, and the team brings in someone via trade with similar cap hit, fine. Injured player coming back during the playoffs means the team needs to re-balance, assuming someone else didn't get hurt. If that means that the new guy sits, so what... he's been paid. Everyone who is eligible to play is already under contract. They've been paid what they will get paid, regardless of what team they are on or whether they're injured or not. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 10 minutes ago, tas said: edit: I really hate forum software on mobile. not the post of mine I accidentally quoted here. the last post I made in the thread. Agreed 100% there. I'm surprised my phone hasn't taken flight at times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, Kragar said: Agreed 100% there. I'm surprised my phone hasn't taken flight at times check out my edit to the post you quoted previously. should make it clear why I think players would care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 14 minutes ago, tas said: see my above post edit: I really hate forum software on mobile. not the post of mine I accidentally quoted here. the last post I made in the thread. Except it literally isn’t changing team payroll even remotely, not by a single penny. No player or league compensation changes at all. It is simply an eligibility calculation to close a type cap circumvention abuse. If you can’t fit a player under the daily cap calculation, they have to sit in the press box and can’t play. You can swap a player out, but you can’t hide a guy on LTIR until the first day of the playoffs and then have an extra $10 million dollar player for the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 10 minutes ago, Kragar said: They aren't getting salary in the playoffs, though, so again, why would they care? You've yet to show the advantage the players get from the existing situation. What I'm arguing for is for teams to be cap compliant during playoffs. If someone goes on LITR, pre-TDL, and the team brings in someone via trade with similar cap hit, fine. Injured player coming back during the playoffs means the team needs to re-balance, assuming someone else didn't get hurt. If that means that the new guy sits, so what... he's been paid. Everyone who is eligible to play is already under contract. They've been paid what they will get paid, regardless of what team they are on or whether they're injured or not. Yep, the only difference is that you can have extra black aces in the press box as it is the playoffs and no call ups can happen like in the regular season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, Provost said: Except it literally isn’t changing team payroll even remotely, not by a single penny. No player or league compensation changes at all. It is simply an eligibility calculation to close a type cap circumvention abuse. If you can’t fit a player under the daily cap calculation, they have to sit in the press box and can’t play. You can swap a player out, but you can’t hide a guy on LTIR until the first day of the playoffs and then have an extra $10 million dollar player for the playoffs. go read my edit, the hypothetical. punishing players for getting injured is asinine and will never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Dude, how do other teams not pony up more than that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combover Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Salary Caps going to have to count in the playoffs. only way to stop teams from loopholing in with 20 million over. they close it when a Canadian team takes the TB or Vegas level of circumvention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Vegas since joining the league have made more big name trades and signing than pretty much any other team since the introduction of the salary cap? Re signing ur own player doesn’t count. hanafin barbarshev stone eichel pac pietrangelo there’s prolly a few more 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 5 minutes ago, Dom said: Dude, how do other teams not pony up more than that? Why does that feel even cheaper than what we paid for lindholm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said: Why does that feel even cheaper than what we paid for lindholm Just ridiculous. VGK have been granted whatever players they want for whatever they have to offer lmao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wing Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 5 minutes ago, Dom said: Dude, how do other teams not pony up more than that? Hanifin's M-NTC might have played a part? So essentially 1st round, 2nd round (pretty good chance Vegas will win a round) and a 26 yr old RHD who's UFA. They probably paid another 3/4th round to Philly for being a broker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, Wing said: Hanifin's M-NTC might have played a part? So essentially 1st round, 2nd round (pretty good chance Vegas will win a round) and a 26 yr old RHD who's UFA. They probably paid another 3/4th round to Philly for being a broker. 5th rd pick to Philly as per VGK twitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: Why does that feel even cheaper than what we paid for lindholm At the time, Lindholm was considered the best player available this TDL (maybe on par with Guentzel). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wing Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 5 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: Vegas since joining the league have made more big name trades and signing than pretty much any other team since the introduction of the salary cap? Re signing ur own player doesn’t count. hanafin barbarshev stone eichel pac pietrangelo there’s prolly a few more That's why they don't need to draft and develop players, which annoys the heck out of me because draft/develop is supposed to be the way to build a team in the cap era, and somehow Vegas is the exception ever since they came into the league. Every player wants to go there and they get away with using LTIR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) Edited March 7 by Rip The Mesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combover Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 minute ago, HKSR said: At the time, Lindholm was considered the best player available this TDL (maybe on par with Guentzel). if Lindy was on the market he’d still be rated the same or higher than JG This fan base has a real grass is always greener Funny how many think guentzel will just magically be the better player. what are his point totals without Sid ? He smaller and he doesn’t win key faceoffs. i hope they stick with Lindy. pens know PA is hot for JG and will make him pay. go for more upgrades on the bottom six and if we can add a decent top six then do it but not by stepping sideways or backwards with Lindy++++++ vetrano toffoli greenway duhaime go after JG in the summer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Fist Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 6 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said: That means they're still in on guentzel if they think they're gunna trade it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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