To Those Disappointed about Today's TDL

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, kettlevalley said:

Personally think we are in a good place with team and prospects.  Glad we didn't co.promise out ability to compete the next few years with Hughes Petey Miller Boeser and Demko all signed and Hronek an RFA we have a strong core and can fill the gaps with players as they come ready.  Looks like we will need Bains and Pods in to fill in gaps next year. 

Exactly! This new management group has a plan. They will add players providing the cost doesn’t deviate from their plan. And it’s working pretty darned well considering we are a top club. 

[kettlevalley]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Exactly! This new management group has a plan. They will add players providing the cost doesn’t deviate from their plan. And it’s working pretty darned well considering we are a top club. 

Yeah.  The playoffs are a crap shoot.  I wiukd rather have three ot five shots at it then go "all in" at the beginning of the window.  Then clean house like a junior team and build up for another window.  Not what dumbass is doing in Pittsburgh. 

[spook007]

3 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

toffoli was traded at 50% retention, guentzel was traded at 25% rent. hanafin traded for 75% retention literally almost all the players that had a decent size cap hit was traded with retention to further allow them to make depth trade.. and 1st rounders came with condition ie vegas can still use and trade their 1st rounder this year if they want.. carolina 1st rounder becomes a 2nd since they likely ain't going to the final with that goaltending.. there was never a bidding war for zadorov.. not at full cap hit.. no body wanted zadorov at 4mil as it limits their ability to add anything as the season goes on. so no we didn't bend over anything

Difference were none of these players required the team to take a big cap player back in the deal. Had Canucks said to Calgary, we want Lindholm and we have the cap space, just like with Z, they may even have got Flames to retain some cap, but they needed to off load Kuz hence Flame didn't take any retantion. 

As for bidding war, there would definitely have been a bidding war for Lindholm, and Canucks would not have gotten him any cheaper... most likely the opposite...

Z was had easily, as Canucks could eat his cap hit, without having to clarr cap first. Should they have had Flames retain on Z the cost would have been far higher....

[kettlevalley]

6 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Difference were none of these players required the team to take a big cap player back in the deal. Had Canucks said to Calgary, we want Lindholm and we have the cap space, just like with Z, they may even have got Flames to retain some cap, but they needed to off load Kuz hence Flame didn't take any retantion. 

As for bidding war, there would definitely have been a bidding war for Lindholm, and Canucks would not have gotten him any cheaper... most likely the opposite...

Z was had easily, as Canucks could eat his cap hit, without having to clarr cap first. Should they have had Flames retain on Z the cost would have been far higher....

Personally think they should go more simpler in future contracts and do away with retention to circumvent the cap.  Also need to control the LTIR based circumvention too.  

 

Pretty bad that Toronto and Vegas can blatantly circumvent the cap and we are paying the Luongo cap recapture for a contract that was legal and approved by the league that they later said circumvented the cap.  Rules are never the same for everyone so they need to be more simple.  

[DexM94]

well don't ask why the franchise has no cup in 54 years. 

entering the trade deadline, PA/JR had ONE JOB TO DO : fill the perfectly identified hole we had in the top 6. At this deadline, you have to adress your last needs, with a clear target who will not break the farm, Tyler Toffoli.
not Guentzel, not Crosby... just a guy we couldn't retain severals years ago... it was the time to repair the mistake.... and no. failed again. 
Tell me that the price was high ? a 2nd 2025 and a 3rd with 50% retained ? really ? is that far of a 2nd, a 3rd, a prospect (Karlsson ?) and Mikheyev ? without even retaining any penny on Toffoly salary's ? 

You're not giving a 1st rd pick for Lindholm if you're holding back 2 months later when you have to add the missing piece to your roster for a real cup run.

Good luck with Suter, a 4th liner into the top 6. 
 

[RomanPer]

10 minutes ago, DexM94 said:

well don't ask why the franchise has no cup in 54 years. 

entering the trade deadline, PA/JR had ONE JOB TO DO : fill the perfectly identified hole we had in the top 6. At this deadline, you have to adress your last needs, with a clear target who will not break the farm, Tyler Toffoli.
not Guentzel, not Crosby... just a guy we couldn't retain severals years ago... it was the time to repair the mistake.... and no. failed again. 
Tell me that the price was high ? a 2nd 2025 and a 3rd with 50% retained ? really ? is that far of a 2nd, a 3rd, a prospect (Karlsson ?) and Mikheyev ? without even retaining any penny on Toffoly salary's ? 

You're not giving a 1st rd pick for Lindholm if you're holding back 2 months later when you have to add the missing piece to your roster for a real cup run.

Good luck with Suter, a 4th liner into the top 6. 
 

 

I am really curious who decided that they had “ONE JOB TO DO”? A random fan on a message board? Based on the results so far, I trust the front office of the team over a bitching child around here.

[RomanPer]

5 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

it's disappointing because other team went up and address their "need" canucks went out to grab the shiny toy that was possibly unnecessary. Lindholm at the time was a good pickup because it was under the assumption he would be an upgrade on kuzmenko offensively and defensively.. it worked out he's only an upgrade defensively... with the way the 3rd line of garland joshua bluegar was playing.. we had a way bigger need of a top 6 winger than we do in a top 6 center.. if the purpose of trading for lindholm was to force ep to sign a contract?? that's beyond dumb.. coz it obviously had 0 effect on EP willingness to sign the contract until the trade talk began.. they could have forced an answer out of EP prior to lindholm trade.. once joshua is back.. you'll prolly see the bleugar garland joshua line again.. then where the heck does lindholm play?? he didn't exactly work with EP nor is he working with miller.. defensively we were fine without lindholm we needed to address the top 6 winger issue which we never ended up doing. we essentially traded a guy playing in the top 6 for a guy to play currently in the bottom 6 throwing the chemistry all out of whack and we have been struggling to score ever since the trade.. and what sucks about the deal?? almost every team out there was able to get 50-75% retention on all the trades that allows them to add depth player.. we got 0 retention out of an expiring ufa.. they should have gotten at least 2mil worth of retention on lindholm since 2mil of kuzmenko's contract was signing bonus and already paid out this season.. other teams paid around the same if not less than us and all gotten multiple retentions. if we would have gotten lindholm with retention.. then we could have easily gone after a toffoli without even having to cap dump mikheyev

 

Wanted to do it for a while and this is the perfect spot - wai do you lai?  

[wai_lai416]

15 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Wanted to do it for a while and this is the perfect spot - wai do you lai?  

you think you are funny?

[HKSR]

31 minutes ago, DexM94 said:

well don't ask why the franchise has no cup in 54 years. 

entering the trade deadline, PA/JR had ONE JOB TO DO : fill the perfectly identified hole we had in the top 6. At this deadline, you have to adress your last needs, with a clear target who will not break the farm, Tyler Toffoli.
not Guentzel, not Crosby... just a guy we couldn't retain severals years ago... it was the time to repair the mistake.... and no. failed again. 
Tell me that the price was high ? a 2nd 2025 and a 3rd with 50% retained ? really ? is that far of a 2nd, a 3rd, a prospect (Karlsson ?) and Mikheyev ? without even retaining any penny on Toffoly salary's ? 

You're not giving a 1st rd pick for Lindholm if you're holding back 2 months later when you have to add the missing piece to your roster for a real cup run.

Good luck with Suter, a 4th liner into the top 6. 
 

Canucks have $1.09M in cap space with a 22 man roster. Toffoli is a $2.125M cap hit at 50%.  If we only traded a 2nd and 3rd for Toffoli, what is the plan for the cap?  Sending down or waiving PDG or Aman isn't enough.  You need to find over $1M in cap.

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

Difference were none of these players required the team to take a big cap player back in the deal. Had Canucks said to Calgary, we want Lindholm and we have the cap space, just like with Z, they may even have got Flames to retain some cap, but they needed to off load Kuz hence Flame didn't take any retantion. 

As for bidding war, there would definitely have been a bidding war for Lindholm, and Canucks would not have gotten him any cheaper... most likely the opposite...

Z was had easily, as Canucks could eat his cap hit, without having to clarr cap first. Should they have had Flames retain on Z the cost would have been far higher....

we paid to for them to take kuzmenko and it's not like kuzmenko had much actual salary remaining this year to pay. if they negotiate even 25% retention on any one of the player that's 1 extra depth player we could have signed or traded

[DexM94]

2 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Canucks have $1.09M in cap space with a 22 man roster. Toffoli is a $2.125M cap hit at 50%.  If we only traded a 2nd and 3rd for Toffoli, what is the plan for the cap?  Sending down or waiving PDG or Aman isn't enough.  You need to find over $1M in cap.

Please read again. "a 2nd, a 3rd, a prospect (Karlsson ?) and Mikheyev "
 

[HKSR]

Just now, DexM94 said:

Please read again. "a 2nd, a 3rd, a prospect (Karlsson ?) and Mikheyev "
 

You're just gonna force Mikheyev on someone and expect it won't cost us more for a team to take on cap?

[wai_lai416]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

Canucks have $1.09M in cap space with a 22 man roster. Toffoli is a $2.125M cap hit at 50%.  If we only traded a 2nd and 3rd for Toffoli, what is the plan for the cap?  Sending down or waiving PDG or Aman isn't enough.  You need to find over $1M in cap.

if they really wanted him enough they can use a 7th or something to get another team to take another 25% bringing him down to 1.06m but obviously it would have cost more than a 2nd and a 3rd from us since the 2nd they traded is prolly first 5 picks in the 2nd round

[HKSR]

Just now, wai_lai416 said:

if they really wanted him enough they can use a 7th or something to get another team to take another 25% bringing him down to 1.06m but obviously it would have cost more than a 2nd and a 3rd from us since the 2nd they traded is prolly first 5 picks in the 2nd round

Yeah, probably a 1st, 3rd, and the going price for 3rd party retention is a 3rd or 4th.  A bit much for Toffoli IMO.

[DexM94]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

You're just gonna force Mikheyev on someone and expect it won't cost us more for a team to take on cap?

that's why i add a prospect to make it incentive. 
to be honest i don't think Karlsson would have done it, but Raty would have booked it

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, DexM94 said:

that's why i add a prospect to make it incentive. 
to be honest i don't think Karlsson would have done it, but Raty would have booked it

That's a lot to grab Toffoli...

 

The 2nd was a high 2nd, so like a low 1st.

 

So for us it realistically would have been a package of:

 

Mikheyev, 1st, 3rd, and Raty...

[kettlevalley]

Mikheyev is really just having a speed problem from his injury.  Good chance he is back to normal next year.  

[Bob Long]

7 minutes ago, kettlevalley said:

Mikheyev is really just having a speed problem from his injury.  Good chance he is back to normal next year.  

 

it could be happening now. He's looked much better with Miller the last few games and is getting chances. Yea he's got hands of stone at the moment but he seems to be picking it up.

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

it could be happening now. He's looked much better with Miller the last few games and is getting chances. Yea he's got hands of stone at the moment but he seems to be picking it up.

Yeah it's the first time this season that he's looking effective offensively.  Might be a Miller effect too though.

[Bob Long]

9 minutes ago, HKSR said:

That's a lot to grab Toffoli...

 

The 2nd was a high 2nd, so like a low 1st.

 

So for us it realistically would have been a package of:

 

Mikheyev, 1st, 3rd, and Raty...

 

thats just too much. We're also going to need the cheapie skill for next years cap. 

 

Suter, Hogs, Juulson come in at a combined 3.475. Now add Podz at around 1, maybe Ratu at 836k. 

 

5 solid guys for just over 5 mil.  

 

 

[Hammertime]

5 hours ago, spook007 said:

If for any reason he doesn't, it will be managements biggest job next year, to find him someone, with whom he clicks. 

For sure. Of course. With that said making 11.6m we aren't going to be able to afford 8m in wingers to put next to him he's going to need to make it work as a 16-17m line. We need to have some money left to ice a bottom 6 and respectable D corps. 

[Thrago]

I'm not disappointed but would have been nice to get guys like Kostin and Meyers just for some added depth. 

[kettlevalley]

30 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

it could be happening now. He's looked much better with Miller the last few games and is getting chances. Yea he's got hands of stone at the moment but he seems to be picking it up.

I haven't seen game data from the last couple games.  But his speed burst speed and frequency has been down this year.  Didn't get his strength up enough after the surgery.  His offense and defense prowess comes off his speed.  

[kettlevalley]

1 hour ago, DexM94 said:

well don't ask why the franchise has no cup in 54 years. 

entering the trade deadline, PA/JR had ONE JOB TO DO : fill the perfectly identified hole we had in the top 6. At this deadline, you have to adress your last needs, with a clear target who will not break the farm, Tyler Toffoli.
not Guentzel, not Crosby... just a guy we couldn't retain severals years ago... it was the time to repair the mistake.... and no. failed again. 
Tell me that the price was high ? a 2nd 2025 and a 3rd with 50% retained ? really ? is that far of a 2nd, a 3rd, a prospect (Karlsson ?) and Mikheyev ? without even retaining any penny on Toffoly salary's ? 

You're not giving a 1st rd pick for Lindholm if you're holding back 2 months later when you have to add the missing piece to your roster for a real cup run.

Good luck with Suter, a 4th liner into the top 6. 
 

Personally think it will be more Hogs and Pods than Suter.  

 

If we are fully healthy I would do this.  

 

Miller Lindstrom Boeser

Hogs Petey Pods

Joshua Bluegar Gnarly

PDG (Suter or Aman) Lafferty

 

To me we have 4 power forwards of varying skills in that lineup. Miller, Pods, Jodhua and PDG.  Grit is what we need for the playoffs.  

 

Z, Juuls and Soucy to add grit from the back end.  

 

If we can get that Petey line going with those young guys we will be dangerous for years.  

[Bob Long]

12 minutes ago, kettlevalley said:

I haven't seen game data from the last couple games.  But his speed burst speed and frequency has been down this year.  Didn't get his strength up enough after the surgery.  His offense and defense prowess comes off his speed.  

 

Yep he was 95th percentile in 21/22 and is down around 70th this year.