[REPORT] Canucks make contract offer to Filip Hronek

[Gurn]

16 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Not sure the NTCs are that big a deal, usually when teams go south players are happy to waive.

Kesler had a no trade- when he waived, because things had gone south, he still restricted his choices to 2 teams.

I'd say NTC can be a big deal, after all.

I'd like to see a CBA rule- if you waive a NTC- player wants out, player can be traded anywhere.

[Bob Long]

14 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Kesler had a no trade- when he waived, because things had gone south, he still restricted his choices to 2 teams.

I'd say NTC can be a big deal, after all.

I'd like to see a CBA rule- if you waive a NTC- player wants out, player can be traded anywhere.

 

I'm assuming that we have a competent gm.

[RJCF96]

12 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'm assuming that we have a competent gm.

Let's say Hronek has a 10-team NTC, where he can put in a list of 10 teams he wants to get traded to.

 

In this case, if he really wants to go to only 2 teams, he can put those 2 teams plus 8 other teams where he knows have no interest or not in the right timeline or does not have the assets to acquire him.

 

In this case, we are only dealing with a 2 team list again.

 

Benning sucks, but I actually thought he handled the Kesler trade quite well on the initial return despite the limited option.

 

Here is the return he got back:

• Bonino: He is overall a weaker roster player as replacement. Bonino was actually on an extremely team friendly deal of $1.9 million cap-hit for 3 seasons. Bonino is capable of an average of 15 goals and 40 point producer. He is more ideally as a 3rd-line centre on a contender. Having Bonino at $1.9 million for a multiple seasons is huge and any other competent GM would've either kept him on the team or flip him to a contender looking to save cap-space for a bit of a haul. Unfortunately, Benning flipped him for a more expensive Sutter (who unfortunately, couldn't remain healthy).
• 1st round pick 2014 (24th OA): Drafted Jared McCann with this pick. At the time, I really liked this pick and he eventually develops into a solid top 6 player now in Seattle. It took him multiple stops in Vancouver, Florida and Pittsburgh before he finally figures it out in Seattle. This is a solid pick if Benning was patient and let him develop properly through the AHL instead of rushing him into the NHL before he was ready. Trading him plus assets for Erik Gudbranson is arguably the 2nd worst trade in Jim Benning's tenure as a Canucks GM. Yes, Pastrnak was drafted 1-pick later, but 22 other GMs also passed on Pastrnak, so this is more credits given to the Bruins scouting than the Canucks missing on our pick. I would still say, McCann at 24th OA is a solid pick if we developed him properly.
• Luca Sbisa: Sbisa at the time was a serviceable 3rd pairing defenseman (likely a depth D on a contender). He was on an expiring deal, but Benning chose to re-sign him to a higher cap-hit. One of the many blunders of Jim Benning's poor capability of identifying NHL level defenseman. Sbisa was claimed off of our roster by Vegas in the expansion draft. There were rumours that the Ducks gave Benning a choice between Shea Theodore and Luca Sbisa and Benning went with Sbisa because Sbisa is already in the NHL while Theodore was still a developing prospect. I am not sure if this is the truth, but if that's the case, this is the worst blunder of the entire Ryan Kesler trade.
• 3rd round pick 2014 draft (85th OA pick): flipped to the Rangers for Derek Dorsett. Dorsett is a good bottom 6 forward. The pick eventually became Keegan Iverson (didn't make the NHL). Notable names within 10 spots after this pick: Mark Friedman (86th OA), Nathan Walker (89th OA), Mike Amadio (90th OA), William Lageson (92nd OA), Ville Husso (94th OA). If we kept this pick, the only notable player drafted within 10 spots that I would want over Dorsett is Mike Amadio and Ville Husso. At the time, we needed to fill a roster spot on the 4th line and Dorsett helped mentor Horvat into the NHL. In hind-sight, given the cycle of the team, it would've been better off to just keep this pick for a proper rebuild, but Benning's mandate from ownership during that first season was to make the playoffs with the Sedins, and picking up Dorsett wasn't overall a negative move. Dorsett was extended to an overpaid contract, but this was actually one I could live with (much better than the blunders he made later on with Beagle, Roussel and Eriksson etc.). Too bad his career had to come to an end due to injury, but he gave it his all every game when he was a Canuck.

 

Benning could've hit a home-run if the return was Pastrnak+Theodore+Bonino (who could've been flipped for something better than Sutter). However, given the circumstance, he was able to pick up a 1st round pick, 2 roster players and another draft-pick while Kesler literally only gave him a 2-team list. How he managed those assets later on is a different story. The initial trade wasn't too bad.

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, RJCF96 said:

Let's say Hronek has a 10-team NTC, where he can put in a list of 10 teams he wants to get traded to.

 

In this case, if he really wants to go to only 2 teams, he can put those 2 teams plus 8 other teams where he knows have no interest or not in the right timeline or does not have the assets to acquire him.

 

In this case, we are only dealing with a 2 team list again.

 

Benning sucks, but I actually thought he handled the Kesler trade quite well on the initial return despite the limited option.

 

Here is the return he got back:

• Bonino: He is overall a weaker roster player as replacement. Bonino was actually on an extremely team friendly deal of $1.9 million cap-hit for 3 seasons. Bonino is capable of an average of 15 goals and 40 point producer. He is more ideally as a 3rd-line centre on a contender. Having Bonino at $1.9 million for a multiple seasons is huge and any other competent GM would've either kept him on the team or flip him to a contender looking to save cap-space for a bit of a haul. Unfortunately, Benning flipped him for a more expensive Sutter (who unfortunately, couldn't remain healthy).
• 1st round pick 2014 (24th OA): Drafted Jared McCann with this pick. At the time, I really liked this pick and he eventually develops into a solid top 6 player now in Seattle. It took him multiple stops in Vancouver, Florida and Pittsburgh before he finally figures it out in Seattle. This is a solid pick if Benning was patient and let him develop properly through the AHL instead of rushing him into the NHL before he was ready. Trading him plus assets for Erik Gudbranson is arguably the 2nd worst trade in Jim Benning's tenure as a Canucks GM. Yes, Pastrnak was drafted 1-pick later, but 22 other GMs also passed on Pastrnak, so this is more credits given to the Bruins scouting than the Canucks missing on our pick. I would still say, McCann at 24th OA is a solid pick if we developed him properly.
• Luca Sbisa: Sbisa at the time was a serviceable 3rd pairing defenseman (likely a depth D on a contender). He was on an expiring deal, but Benning chose to re-sign him to a higher cap-hit. One of the many blunders of Jim Benning's poor capability of identifying NHL level defenseman. Sbisa was claimed off of our roster by Vegas in the expansion draft. There were rumours that the Ducks gave Benning a choice between Shea Theodore and Luca Sbisa and Benning went with Sbisa because Sbisa is already in the NHL while Theodore was still a developing prospect. I am not sure if this is the truth, but if that's the case, this is the worst blunder of the entire Ryan Kesler trade.
• 3rd round pick 2014 draft (85th OA pick): flipped to the Rangers for Derek Dorsett. Dorsett is a good bottom 6 forward. The pick eventually became Keegan Iverson (didn't make the NHL). Notable names within 10 spots after this pick: Mark Friedman (86th OA), Nathan Walker (89th OA), Mike Amadio (90th OA), William Lageson (92nd OA), Ville Husso (94th OA). If we kept this pick, the only notable player drafted within 10 spots that I would want over Dorsett is Mike Amadio and Ville Husso. At the time, we needed to fill a roster spot on the 4th line and Dorsett helped mentor Horvat into the NHL. In hind-sight, given the cycle of the team, it would've been better off to just keep this pick for a proper rebuild, but Benning's mandate from ownership during that first season was to make the playoffs with the Sedins, and picking up Dorsett wasn't overall a negative move. Dorsett was extended to an overpaid contract, but this was actually one I could live with (much better than the blunders he made later on with Beagle, Roussel and Eriksson etc.). Too bad his career had to come to an end due to injury, but he gave it his all every game when he was a Canuck.

 

Benning could've hit a home-run if the return was Pastrnak+Theodore+Bonino (who could've been flipped for something better than Sutter). However, given the circumstance, he was able to pick up a 1st round pick, 2 roster players and another draft-pick while Kesler literally only gave him a 2-team list. How he managed those assets later on is a different story. The initial trade wasn't too bad.

 

the flip side too is a GM thats willing to be patient for a good return. If a player really wants out they will eventually expand their list of teams they would go to. 

 

[Hammertime]

41 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'm assuming that we have a competent gm.

It was Gillis handing out NTC/NMC's like candy. All I'm saying is good teams get stale if we're going long term on everyone I hope they leave themselves some windows in the contracts where they have some options to make moves if moves need to be made. 

[stawns]

19 hours ago, Coryberg said:

Very fair to who? Vancouver has obviously laughed off hronek's agents ask as well. The good news is they are both smiling 

 

I wouldn't say the team laughed his off, they gave him an offer they could afford.  The Canucks have to work within a salary structure and juggkd that number with 23 contacts.  Hronek has to worry about one, his.

 

 

[Dr. Crossbar]

22 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

And people were concerned about Miller's "demands" and Petey's "demands" and... on and on and on re: their initial figures/asks as well. In reality, they all signed for lower, more realistic dollars somewhere south of the high figures floated by agents and regurgitated ad nauseum by Dhaliwal, and then the rest of the talking heads.

 

Spot on! Great post! Grounded perspective in the what is over what if.

 

Negotiations are fluid for a reason. Just because there's a hard line to be had, or an extreme, doesn't mean that's taken or set in stone. That's why there's room to negotiate.

 

The media drum beats the extreme as if everyone's folding their arms and not budging.

 

 

[Artemus]

3 hours ago, RJCF96 said:

Let's say Hronek has a 10-team NTC, where he can put in a list of 10 teams he wants to get traded to.

 

In this case, if he really wants to go to only 2 teams, he can put those 2 teams plus 8 other teams where he knows have no interest or not in the right timeline or does not have the assets to acquire him.

 

In this case, we are only dealing with a 2 team list again.

 

Benning sucks, but I actually thought he handled the Kesler trade quite well on the initial return despite the limited option.

 

Here is the return he got back:

• Bonino: He is overall a weaker roster player as replacement. Bonino was actually on an extremely team friendly deal of $1.9 million cap-hit for 3 seasons. Bonino is capable of an average of 15 goals and 40 point producer. He is more ideally as a 3rd-line centre on a contender. Having Bonino at $1.9 million for a multiple seasons is huge and any other competent GM would've either kept him on the team or flip him to a contender looking to save cap-space for a bit of a haul. Unfortunately, Benning flipped him for a more expensive Sutter (who unfortunately, couldn't remain healthy).
• 1st round pick 2014 (24th OA): Drafted Jared McCann with this pick. At the time, I really liked this pick and he eventually develops into a solid top 6 player now in Seattle. It took him multiple stops in Vancouver, Florida and Pittsburgh before he finally figures it out in Seattle. This is a solid pick if Benning was patient and let him develop properly through the AHL instead of rushing him into the NHL before he was ready. Trading him plus assets for Erik Gudbranson is arguably the 2nd worst trade in Jim Benning's tenure as a Canucks GM. Yes, Pastrnak was drafted 1-pick later, but 22 other GMs also passed on Pastrnak, so this is more credits given to the Bruins scouting than the Canucks missing on our pick. I would still say, McCann at 24th OA is a solid pick if we developed him properly.
• Luca Sbisa: Sbisa at the time was a serviceable 3rd pairing defenseman (likely a depth D on a contender). He was on an expiring deal, but Benning chose to re-sign him to a higher cap-hit. One of the many blunders of Jim Benning's poor capability of identifying NHL level defenseman. Sbisa was claimed off of our roster by Vegas in the expansion draft. There were rumours that the Ducks gave Benning a choice between Shea Theodore and Luca Sbisa and Benning went with Sbisa because Sbisa is already in the NHL while Theodore was still a developing prospect. I am not sure if this is the truth, but if that's the case, this is the worst blunder of the entire Ryan Kesler trade.
• 3rd round pick 2014 draft (85th OA pick): flipped to the Rangers for Derek Dorsett. Dorsett is a good bottom 6 forward. The pick eventually became Keegan Iverson (didn't make the NHL). Notable names within 10 spots after this pick: Mark Friedman (86th OA), Nathan Walker (89th OA), Mike Amadio (90th OA), William Lageson (92nd OA), Ville Husso (94th OA). If we kept this pick, the only notable player drafted within 10 spots that I would want over Dorsett is Mike Amadio and Ville Husso. At the time, we needed to fill a roster spot on the 4th line and Dorsett helped mentor Horvat into the NHL. In hind-sight, given the cycle of the team, it would've been better off to just keep this pick for a proper rebuild, but Benning's mandate from ownership during that first season was to make the playoffs with the Sedins, and picking up Dorsett wasn't overall a negative move. Dorsett was extended to an overpaid contract, but this was actually one I could live with (much better than the blunders he made later on with Beagle, Roussel and Eriksson etc.). Too bad his career had to come to an end due to injury, but he gave it his all every game when he was a Canuck.

 

Benning could've hit a home-run if the return was Pastrnak+Theodore+Bonino (who could've been flipped for something better than Sutter). However, given the circumstance, he was able to pick up a 1st round pick, 2 roster players and another draft-pick while Kesler literally only gave him a 2-team list. How he managed those assets later on is a different story. The initial trade wasn't too bad.

 

 

Your point about the modified NTC whereby a number of teams are exempted from being traded to, is legitimate. This can be manipulated to make a deal almost impossible. Think Radim Vrbata and the options that he gave the Canucks at the 2016 TDL. He even stated that "If he wanted to traded, he would have been traded".

 

And The Kesler trade one more time.

I heard Bieksa and Kesler discuss on their blog the two team option that Kesler gave in the summer of 2014.

Kesler said that before the 2014 TDL (March 2014) that he gave an eight team list to the Canucks, IIRC. That list included amongst others both Pittsburgh and Anaheim.

Both of those teams put together good packages for Kesler. 

Anaheim's offer was rumoured at the time to be Rakell, Theodore and the better of the two 1st round draft picks (10th).

Can't remember Pittsburgh's rumoured offer.

Judging by the Anaheim cap moves just before the TDL it appeared that Gillis was about to accept the Anaheim offer.

 

The Kesler TDL deal was kiboshed by someone above Gillis in the pecking order. Could only have been Aquilini. Shortly thereafter Gillis is out and Benning is in.

 

Come the summer of 2014 Kesler shortens that list to two teams.

Anaheim says that they will take Kesler but they are not going to give a package as good as their TDL offer. This was actually stated by the Anaheim GM.

Benning acquiesced to this lesser offer, saying it was the best he could get at the time.

 

In short we excepted from Anaheim the equivalent of our much laughed at trade proposal of a Teams better Player for: Raymond, Ballard and a late 1st round pick.

Kesler (one of our top players) for:  Bonino - a second/third line tweener (think Raymond), Sbisa - a third pairing/replacement level defenseman (think Ballard) and a late 1st round pick (24th).

 

In my opinion, Benning should have shown some backbone and held on to Kesler. This is what some good GM's have done when star players have made trade demands and the offers are underwhelming. Think Sakic with Duchene and Yzerman with Drouin. These GM's did not like what was offered and held on to their players and eventually some very good offers came. Kesler had a NTC but he would have expanded his two team list. He wanted out. His options being to play for the Canucks or sit out.

 

The 3rd round pick was just an exchange of third round picks. The Canucks picking with the Duck's pick in 2014 and the Ducks picking with the Canuck's pick in 2015, IIRC.

 

In short, between Aquilini and Benning, the Kesler trade was a fiasco. 

An experienced GM probably would have gotten us a good return, who knows, perhaps even as good as what Sakic and Yzerman got for Duchene and Drouin.

 

 

[Warhippy]

OIf Hronek decides his value is north of $7 million without proving he can accomplish what he has done this year without Hughes he needs to be traded after his value is pumped through the roof.

 

Good player but could be as much an ehrhoff as a Toews and we don't yet know if he is a passenger with chemistry with Hughes; or just a good 3-4

[PhillipBlunt]

4 hours ago, stawns said:

 

I wouldn't say the team laughed his off, they gave him an offer they could afford.  The Canucks have to work within a salary structure and juggkd that number with 23 contacts.  Hronek has to worry about one, his.

 

 

I can't see Alvin (and Rutherford) going from $6.5M to $8M, merely because Hronek's agent went to the press. 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I can't see Alvin (and Rutherford) going from $6.5M to $8M, merely because Hronek's agent went to the press. 

 

Me either, it's unlikely that hronek comes down much, imo.  To me, he needs to come in under toews who is a better dman with better numbers 

[Goose]

Im really starting to warm up to the idea of re-signing NZ and trading PH. 

 

Things PH does well w QH:

 

-Slings the puck across the blue line well

-Can help w skating the puck out of the zone.

-Good OZ pinches

-Defensively I like how he can attack

 

Honestly, these are things I think Chris Tanev could do at a comparable level.  And Big Z brings some intangibles I think really helps the team overall.  
 

If the Canucks could trade PH for another younger (but less polished defenseman) or an impact fwd I think the Canucks would be ok, maybe even improved?

 

[stawns]

10 minutes ago, AngryGoose said:

Im really starting to warm up to the idea of re-signing NZ and trading PH. 

 

Things PH does well w QH:

 

-Slings the puck across the blue line well

-Can help w skating the puck out of the zone.

-Good OZ pinches

-Defensively I like how he can attack

 

Honestly, these are things I think Chris Tanev could do at a comparable level.  And Big Z brings some intangibles I think really helps the team overall.  
 

If the Canucks could trade PH for another younger (but less polished defenseman) or an impact fwd I think the Canucks would be ok, maybe even improved?

 

 

I would love to get Ostlund out of Buffalo, but I doubt they'll be looking for another high priced dman

[Artemus]

26 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

OIf Hronek decides his value is north of $7 million without proving he can accomplish what he has done this year without Hughes he needs to be traded after his value is pumped through the roof.

 

Good player but could be as much an ehrhoff as a Toews and we don't yet know if he is a passenger with chemistry with Hughes; or just a good 3-4

 

 

Agreed.

 

Was interesting to watch Myers play with Hughes last night. They looked good together.

 

Though I don't believe that Hronek is akin to "chopped liver" I also don't believe that Hronek is comparable to Sergatchev (the 8.5 M comparison).

 

To truly know what we have, we need to see him play away from Hughes.

 

For now I would leave Hronek paired with Hughes. Hopefully, this will have Hronek get to the 50 point level, which in turn may help with any trades. Though on the other hand a 50 Hronek season could hurt us with any "Arbitration Hearing".

 

We cannot afford to be frivolous with next year's cap.

 

 

[MeanSeanBean]

10 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I would love to get Ostlund out of Buffalo, but I doubt they'll be looking for another high priced dman

Dahlin-Byram

Power-Hronek

 

What an absolutely unreal top 4 that would be. I would be all over trying to get Ostlund. Big fan of his game.

 

[stawns]

16 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Dahlin-Byram

Power-Hronek

 

What an absolutely unreal top 4 that would be. I would be all over trying to get Ostlund. Big fan of his game.

 

 

And Lek's longtime C.

[Déjà Vu]

Canucks' Filip Hronek Reportedly Rejects Massive Extension Offer (thehockeywriters.com)

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Déjà Vu said:

Canucks' Filip Hronek Reportedly Rejects Massive Extension Offer (thehockeywriters.com)

 

I still think he hadn't earned any contract that doesn't start with 6.  

[Bob Long]

Just now, stawns said:

 

I still think he hadn't earned any contract that doesn't start with 6.  

 

if he's going 8 years, then you need to factor some inflation in there and cap going up. You'd think tho 55 mil over 8 years would get it done... but who knows. 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

if he's going 8 years, then you need to factor some inflation in there and cap going up. You'd think tho 55 mil over 8 years would get it done... but who knows. 

 

I also wouldnt be signing him to an 8 year deal based on one year playing with Hughes.  If he's serious about playing for a contender and wants big money, sign a 2-3 year deal around $6.5-7.  then, if he's earned it, give him the big deal.

[Bob Long]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I also wouldnt be signing him to an 8 year deal based on one year playing with Hughes.  If he's serious about playing for a contender and wants big money, sign a 2-3 year deal around $6.5-7.  then, if he's earned it, give him the big deal.

 

he'll be getting term offers from others tho for sure. If not us, then lets move him at the draft. 

[stawns]

51 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

he'll be getting term offers from others tho for sure. If not us, then lets move him at the draft. 

Agreed

[Mac]

Can't let players dictate their contracts any more like the old regimes allowed. I trust current management to make the right deal whether that is signing at a reasonable number or trading.

 

I am fine trading him for a very good package.

[Coryberg]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

OIf Hronek decides his value is north of $7 million without proving he can accomplish what he has done this year without Hughes he needs to be traded after his value is pumped through the roof.

 

56 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I also wouldnt be signing him to an 8 year deal based on one year playing with Hughes.  

Hronek last year in Detroit (without Hughes) .633 points per game

 

Hronek this year in Vancouver (with Hughes) .625 points per game

[J-23]

I think 7-7.25 million is very fair. 

 

Had a very strong start to the season but his numbers have been down since:

First 42 Games: 36 Points, +32

Last 29 Games: 9 Points, +1

 

I hope he returns, one of my favourite players but at the end of the day the NHL is a business as well. 

 

In a trade situation we could recover nicely in free agency or a trade.

 

Hughes - Willander 

Soucy - Roy/Tanev/Pesce

Zadorov - Juulsen

Hirose - Woo/McWard

 

Edited March 27 by J-23