[REPORT] Canucks make contract offer to Filip Hronek

[fanfor42]

Per cap friendly Hronek's QO is 5.28M

 

 

[Artemus]

6 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

Per cap friendly Hronek's QO is 5.28M

 

 

 

 

Yes that would be his Qualifying Offer.

 

I don't believe that the Hronek camp will accept his QO as he has Arbitration Rights which will probably get him money similar to what Hanifin got in LV.

There is no incentive to accept less than this.

If we go the arbitration route, then Hronek gets a very decent payday for his final year of RFA status. After which he is UFA and probably will get overpaid by some GM willing to take a chance on a 27 year old right side D-man.

 

 

 

 

[JamesB]

On 3/27/2024 at 2:03 PM, wai_lai416 said:

I don’t like the idea of trading hronek in the summer reason being team prolly knows at that point we can’t afford to sign him. He can also just accept his qualifying so he could essentially just be 1 year rental 

Hronek won't accept his QO. He would opt for arbitration, where he would be overpaid as arbitration is based mainly on "numbers" and Hronek has inflated numbers due to playing with Hughes. The Canucks won't be happy with the arbitration risk. They would be better off trading him to a team willing (with enough cap room) to re-sign Hronek for what he wants. He reportedly wants a number starting with 8 and the Canucks offered a number starting with 6.

 

It has been suggested that there might be room for a deal with the Canucks at about 7.5, but I think that is more than the Canucks are willing to pay. 

 

If they trade him to a team with cap room where he wants to go, the Canucks could get some good assets in return.  

[wai_lai416]

6 minutes ago, JamesB said:

Hronek won't accept his QO. He would opt for arbitration, where he would be overpaid as arbitration is based mainly on "numbers" and Hronek has inflated numbers due to playing with Hughes. The Canucks won't be happy with the arbitration risk. They would be better off trading him to a team willing (with enough cap room) to re-sign Hronek for what he wants. He reportedly wants a number starting with 8 and the Canucks offered a number starting with 6.

 

It has been suggested that there might be room for a deal with the Canucks at about 7.5, but I think that is more than the Canucks are willing to pay. 

 

If they trade him to a team with cap room where he wants to go, the Canucks could get some good assets in return.  

Again his number is nearly identical to his last year number in Detroit.. not sure where the obsession with he only got points coz he’s playing with Hughes is coming from.. if he can produce playing with inferior players in Detroit.. he can’t produce on his own playing with better players in Vancouver?

[Coconuts]

If we do end up trading him I hope we get a 1st back as part of the deal, I'd love to see us draft a center in the 1st round

Edited May 7 by Coconuts

[canucks curse]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

If we do end up trading him I hope we get a 1st back as part of the deal, I'd love to see us draft a center in the 1st round

Hronek to TO for Knies, 2024 1st

 

Hronek to SJS for PIT 2024 1st and SJS or NJD 2nd 2024 

[Coryberg]

53 minutes ago, Artemus said:

 

 

Yes that would be his Qualifying Offer.

 

I don't believe that the Hronek camp will accept his QO as he has Arbitration Rights which will probably get him money similar to what Hanifin got in LV.

There is no incentive to accept less than this.

If we go the arbitration route, then Hronek gets a very decent payday for his final year of RFA status. After which he is UFA and probably will get overpaid by some GM willing to take a chance on a 27 year old right side D-man.

 

 

 

 

Not only that but once there is an arbitration ruling we won't be able to trade Hronek and he will either walk to UFA or have us over a barrel.

[JamesB]

27 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

Again his number is nearly identical to his last year number in Detroit.. not sure where the obsession with he only got points coz he’s playing with Hughes is coming from.. if he can produce playing with inferior players in Detroit.. he can’t produce on his own playing with better players in Vancouver?

The criteria used in NHL arbitration are listed in the collective agreement. The first item is:

 

(A) the overall performance, including National Hockey League official statistics (both offensive and defensive)...

 

For D-men, +/- has been an important stat and points are always important. Here are Hronek's recent plus-minus numbers and point totals:

 

20-21: 26 pts,  -18

21-22: 38 pts,  -29

22-23: 39 pts,  +7

23-24: 48 pts, +33

 

In terms of +/- in two years he has gone from green jacket territory (among the worst in the NHL) to among the best. And even his point totals are a lot higher.

 

Arbitration can also use advanced stats collected by the NHL, including Corsi etc. On those metrics Hronek is also much better this year than in the past.

 

And those effects are pretty obviously due in large part to Hughes, as more detailed analysis of the numbers indicates (Hronek numbers with Hughes are much better than with anyone else, as is true of pretty much everyone Hughes plays with). But I don't think with you - without you stats are usable in arbitration.

 

Bottom line: Hronek is likely to be "overpaid" if he goes to arbitration.

[Coconuts]

27 minutes ago, canucks curse said:

Hronek to TO for Knies, 2024 1st

 

Hronek to SJS for PIT 2024 1st and SJS or NJD 2nd 2024 

 

Not sure that makes sense for either team imo

 

Hronek doesn't strike me as the sort of D Toronto should be looking for

 

San Jose is a team that is clearly rebuilding, they shouldn't be moving out high picks at all, more than likely it's going to take a while and I don't think Hronek's best remaining years line up with their timeline 

 

Something with Ottawa might make more sense, something around him and maybe Chychrun 

 

Nashville could be an interesting trade partner, they've got multiple 2nd's this season, all of their 1st's, and Tampa's 1st next year, they also have Matthew Wood (2023 15OA), it really depends on what Trotz wants to do but they could use a top 4RD of Hronek's type, Josi ain't getting any younger

 

Utah has a bunch of picks, prospects, and some talented young NHL talent, they could be interesting and their ownership might be open to making a splash that helps make them more competitive next season 

 

 

[canucks curse]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Not sure that makes sense for either team imo

 

Hronek doesn't strike me as the sort of D Toronto should be looking for

 

San Jose is a team that is clearly rebuilding, they shouldn't be moving out high picks at all, more than likely it's going to take a while and I don't think Hronek's best remaining years line up with their timeline 

 

Something with Ottawa might make more sense, something around him and maybe Chychrun 

 

Nashville could be an interesting trade partner, they've got multiple 2nd's this season, all of their 1st's, and Tampa's 1st next year, they also have Matthew Wood (2023 15OA), it really depends on what Trotz wants to do but they could use a top 4RD of Hronek's type, Josi ain't getting any younger

 

Utah has a bunch of picks, prospects, and some talented young NHL talent, they could be interesting and their ownership might be open to making a splash that helps make them more competitive next season 

 

 

Utah makes a ton of sense, they will want to be competitive, they have cap and money and they have picks and prospects, Josh Doan and two 2nds

[Coconuts]

7 minutes ago, canucks curse said:

Utah makes a ton of sense, they will want to be competitive, they have cap and money and they have picks and prospects, Josh Doan and two 2nds

 

Not sure they'd be willing to give up on Doan given how he transitioned to the NHL late in the season, I'd take him and two 2nd's if it were on the table though. 

 

My preference would be to ask for Geekie or Simashev though, our prospect pool doesn't have anything of Geekie's caliber at the center position or Simashev at the LD position. I really, really covet a higher end center prospect and there's no way they're giving up Cooley. 

 

If we could get a higher caliber piece I'd take be willing to take fewer pieces back for Hronek, even a 1-1 deal wouldn't be off the table if it were a top tier prospect. 

Edited May 7 by Coconuts

[Coryberg]

29 minutes ago, JamesB said:

For D-men, +/- has been an important stat and points are always important. Here are Hronek's recent plus-minus numbers and point totals:

 

20-21: 26 pts,  -18

21-22: 38 pts,  -29

22-23: 39 pts,  +7

23-24: 48 pts, +33

 

You conveniently omitted games played in your "important" stats. Last year he only played 64 games that puts him on a higher points per game (22-23 0.61 ppg, 23-24 0.59 ppg). It's also ridiculous to compare his plus minus last year on a sub par Detroit team to this season on a division winner.

 

[wai_lai416]

31 minutes ago, JamesB said:

The criteria used in NHL arbitration are listed in the collective agreement. The first item is:

 

(A) the overall performance, including National Hockey League official statistics (both offensive and defensive)...

 

For D-men, +/- has been an important stat and points are always important. Here are Hronek's recent plus-minus numbers and point totals:

 

20-21: 26 pts,  -18

21-22: 38 pts,  -29

22-23: 39 pts,  +7

23-24: 48 pts, +33

 

In terms of +/- in two years he has gone from green jacket territory (among the worst in the NHL) to among the best. And even his point totals are a lot higher.

 

Arbitration can also use advanced stats collected by the NHL, including Corsi etc. On those metrics Hronek is also much better this year than in the past.

 

And those effects are pretty obviously due in large part to Hughes, as more detailed analysis of the numbers indicates (Hronek numbers with Hughes are much better than with anyone else, as is true of pretty much everyone Hughes plays with). But I don't think with you - without you stats are usable in arbitration.

 

Bottom line: Hronek is likely to be "overpaid" if he goes to arbitration.

A lot higher? 9 points in 20 more games?? You also didn’t factor in Detroit was a lottery team in 20-21 and 21-22 season.. he was +7 last season on a poor defensive team playing top pairing with sneider demoted. Hughes makes hronek better sure just like hronek makes Hughes better. Yet the way you talk makes it look like hronek is trash without Hughes and it’s all because of Hughes and completely dismiss his last season with Detroit and look at what he was able to do with the quality of roster they have.. who’s their best forward?? Larkin and then? Yet he still managed to produce despite the lack of offensive production from their forward 

[RWJC]

1 hour ago, Coryberg said:

Not only that but once there is an arbitration ruling we won't be able to trade Hronek and he will either walk to UFA or have us over a barrel.

Why do you say this?

we can sign him to the arb award and still trade him, no?

you think because he earns an inflated amount on a one year deal that teams won’t be lining up to secure him for the future and a long term deal? 

Edited May 7 by RWJC

[qwijjibo]

2 hours ago, Coryberg said:

Not only that but once there is an arbitration ruling we won't be able to trade Hronek and he will either walk to UFA or have us over a barrel.

There are certain restrictions regarding a team walking away from an arbitration reward but I don't think there is any restrictions on trading a player who has gone through the arbitration process.  That said any arbitration reward would be a 1 year deal that would see him end the season as a UFA. Since any team trading for him couldn't extend him until after the following Jan 1st it would certainly impact his trade value. Vancouver could still trade him after that initial arbitration award but the return might be questionable 

Edited May 7 by qwijjibo

[RWJC]

19 minutes ago, qwijjibo said:

There are certain restrictions regarding a team walking away from an arbitration reward but I don't think there is any restrictions on trading a player who has gone through the arbitration process.  That said any arbitration reward would be a 1 year deal that would see him end the season as a UFA. Since any team trading for him couldn't extend him until after the following Jan 1st it would certainly impact his trade value but Vancouver could still trade him after that initial arbitration award 

Thank you. Like I stated in previous post, getting him on a 2-3 year deal at even 7.75 prior to any arbitration process would still be best option and hopefully where we end up. It’s a fair deal from us and it also presents him with an awesome opportunity to further raise his value by playing alongside QH, so much so that it may be the better investment into his future regarding his next contract. That’s what I would do if I was him. Bet on myself and in doing so bet on QH’s coattails (no diss on Hronek), not to mention being on what might become a perennial cup contender if mgmt plays their cards right.
The payoff for FH could end up being an extra 1.5 mill per year over a 8 year term contract as a UFA. That’s an extra 12mill. Not too shabby for the long term future and not too shabby on a short term contract in the now. Best of both worlds for him and us and better to invest at a slightly inflated rate for the short term and still create options for the future, imho 

Edited May 7 by RWJC

[Coryberg]

27 minutes ago, qwijjibo said:

There are certain restrictions regarding a team walking away from an arbitration reward but I don't think there is any restrictions on trading a player who has gone through the arbitration process.  That said any arbitration reward would be a 1 year deal that would see him end the season as a UFA. Since any team trading for him couldn't extend him until after the following Jan 1st it would certainly impact his trade value. Vancouver could still trade him after that initial arbitration award but the return might be questionable 

Looks like you are right.

 

I don't know where I got that from but I thought there was a rule against trading a player for the season after arbitration. Can't find it now so it was either in an old CBA or I'm getting old. Maybe both  

[bh90]

if Hronek does get traded, i see Carolina being a good trade partner.

 

Hronek seems like a player they'd target and if Pesce (RHD) potentially on his way out and Brent Burns turning 40 next season they could really use a RD long-term. Money may also not be an issue as they have no defenseman signed to a contract past next season.

 

just seems like a perfect match to me to trade for one of their RFA forwards such as Necas, Drury or Jarvis

 

they have an abbudance of talent up front now and in the pipeline but, not so much on the back end

[HKSR]

Lose Hronek and then you'll have Myers playing 23min+ per night which will likely be the return of chaos giraffe.  Who exactly is gonna eat up Hronek's 23min+ per night?  Of course the answer is magically some UFA that will definitively sign with Vancouver and no one else right?

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Lose Hronek and then you'll have Myers playing 23min+ per night which will likely be the return of chaos giraffe.  Who exactly is gonna eat up Hronek's 23min+ per night?  Of course the answer is magically some UFA that will definitively sign with Vancouver and no one else right?

 

You have to try to lock up our group in order of Hronek, Z, Myers. Cole has been great but maybe a luxury next year at 3 mil. If you run out of money after Fil and big Z, it is what it is. Myers has been great but he might be pricing himself out of the market here, and good for him if someone backs up a Brinks truck for him to retire on. 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

5 hours ago, canucks curse said:

Utah makes a ton of sense, they will want to be competitive, they have cap and money and they have picks and prospects, Josh Doan and two 2nds

I agree 100%. Now that they are out of that shithole in Arizona and have new ownership they will want to start building a contender. 
 

They need a top end RHD. They have tons of picks and prospects. We could deal with them directly or do a three way similar to the Horvat deal. 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

Lose Hronek and then you'll have Myers playing 23min+ per night which will likely be the return of chaos giraffe.  Who exactly is gonna eat up Hronek's 23min+ per night?  Of course the answer is magically some UFA that will definitively sign with Vancouver and no one else right?

We could always bring in Tanev to eat some minutes. Tanev, Cole, Myers and Juulsen isn’t a bad right side. Willander should join the party in 2025. 

[J-23]

3 hours ago, bh90 said:

 

 

Hronek seems like a player they'd target and if Pesce (RHD)

I wonder if management go after Pesce in free agency. They were reportedly one of the teams that called in when it was reported that the Hurricanes might trade him.

 

2 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

You have to try to lock up our group in order of Hronek, Z, Myers. Cole has been great but maybe a luxury next year at 3 mil. 

 

I don’t think that’s going to be the order if the playoffs continue to go the way they have for defencemen.

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We could always bring in Tanev to eat some minutes. Tanev, Cole, Myers and Juulsen isn’t a bad right side. Willander should join the party in 2025. 

Assuming Tanev wants to come here instead of staying with that powerhouse Dallas team.

[RWJC]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

Lose Hronek and then you'll have Myers playing 23min+ per night which will likely be the return of chaos giraffe.  Who exactly is gonna eat up Hronek's 23min+ per night?  Of course the answer is magically some UFA that will definitively sign with Vancouver and no one else right?

There’s also the trade route and we definitely have some pieces we could move to make that happen.