Bob Long Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 21 minutes ago, Coryberg said: 1 Hughes 24:46 2 Hronek 23:43 3 Myers 18:57 4 Cole 18:49 5 Soucy 17:31 6 Zadorov 17:04 7 Juulsen 14:51 https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/VAN/2024.html even strength Soucy and Z are identical. Dunno, I guess we're in agree to disagree territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCupSyndrome Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 14 minutes ago, AatuD2 said: It would be tough to justify giving Zadorov much more then Carson Soucy. Now it just happens that we signed Soucy during the most depressed summer free agency in recent history of the NHL so that has to be accounted for as well. In any case, I think that the ice time difference between Zadorov and Soucy is negligible. Myers and Cole have definitely played bigger parts, but Big Z and Soucy could take over the number 3 and 4 spots in a year or two as age catches up. If Zadorov all of a sudden wants much more then 4 million per year, then it's a contract that simply cannot be afforded as it messes up our internal cap structure. 4.5 million x 6 years is absolutely the max that I'd be willing to go with for Zadorov. 4.25 x 4 years is what I'm betting on as the most likely. $4 - $4.25M x 4 seems like the right ceiling number to me. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 14 minutes ago, AatuD2 said: It would be tough to justify giving Zadorov much more then Carson Soucy. Now it just happens that we signed Soucy during the most depressed summer free agency in recent history of the NHL so that has to be accounted for as well. In any case, I think that the ice time difference between Zadorov and Soucy is negligible. Myers and Cole have definitely played bigger parts, but Big Z and Soucy could take over the number 3 and 4 spots in a year or two as age catches up. If Zadorov all of a sudden wants much more then 4 million per year, then it's a contract that simply cannot be afforded as it messes up our internal cap structure. 4.5 million x 6 years is absolutely the max that I'd be willing to go with for Zadorov. 4.25 x 4 years is what I'm betting on as the most likely. Zadorov played 19:11 last night and had 3 hits and 3 SOG in one of the biggest games of the year for Vancouver. 3rd pairing Dmen don’t play 19 minutes in a game. The fact of the matter is Vancouver relies on Zadorov in the most important games and he brings a physical and intimidating presence that Cole and Soucy do not bring. Cole and Soucy are interchangeable. Zadorov is a completely different beast. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Coryberg Posted March 10 Popular Post Share Posted March 10 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: Zadorov played 19:11 last night and had 3 hits and 3 SOG in one of the biggest games of the year for Vancouver. 3rd pairing Dmen don’t play 19 minutes in a game. The fact of the matter is Vancouver relies on Zadorov in the most important games and he brings a physical and intimidating presence that Cole and Soucy do not bring. Cole and Soucy are interchangeable. Zadorov is a completely different beast. Come on man! We were up 3-0 in the first period and the coach cut down Hughes and Hronek's ice time. It's game management. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AatuD2 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 1 minute ago, Coryberg said: Come on man! We were up 3-0 in the first period and the coach cut down Hughes and Hronek's ice time. It's game management. Plus Myers is injured... I do have high hopes for Zadorov going forward though. Even though he's 28, it would not shock me to see Foote and Gonchar unlock the next gear in Zadorov and see him become a legit 2nd pairing defender going forward. I just hope that we don't make the Damon Severson mistake of overpaying for a #4-5 defender (Severson got the 6.25 x 8 year deal last summer). Zadorov mentioned that his wife likes Vancouver and that his two daughters are going to school here, so I'm hoping that he stays reasonable and doesn't push for every last penny available on the free agent market next summer. There's no reason that a desperate team like Ottawa wouldn't give him a 6 x 6 contract, and we just can't and shouldn't match that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AatuD2 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 16 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: If Zadorov hits free agency in the summer, you don’t think he would be highly regarded? Sadly he would be... In fact, the negative about our season is that almost every one of our free agents will be highly regarded. Tocchet has given excellent, manageable roles to everyone and they're all looking good filling those roles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johngould21 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Zadorov played 19:11 last night and had 3 hits and 3 SOG in one of the biggest games of the year for Vancouver. 3rd pairing Dmen don’t play 19 minutes in a game. The fact of the matter is Vancouver relies on Zadorov in the most important games and he brings a physical and intimidating presence that Cole and Soucy do not bring. Cole and Soucy are interchangeable. Zadorov is a completely different beast. If you don't see what Soucy brings to the table in only his 3rd game back, then I don't know what you're watching. The entire defense plays a different game with him in the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 12 minutes ago, Coryberg said: Come on man! We were up 3-0 in the first period and the coach cut down Hughes and Hronek's ice time. It's game management. He still played more than Cole and Soucy. How do you explain that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 4 minutes ago, Johngould21 said: If you don't see what Soucy brings to the table in only his 3rd game back, then I don't know what you're watching. The entire defense plays a different game with him in the lineup. Yes I agree. And the entire team plays a different game when Zadorov is in the lineup. If you don’t see that then I don’t know what you’re watching. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 14 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yes I agree. And the entire team plays a different game when Zadorov is in the lineup. If you don’t see that then I don’t know what you’re watching. They certainly do. Teammates love him, and as a fan, I've been waiting for a guy that actually takes the wind out of players when he hits them for sooo long. Zadarov loves making the big hit. Notice when he makes a nice hit he looks back to admire his work, with the Evil Grinch grin, lol. Sign him. Can't overpay, but maybe a little overpay, lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) Soucy played a great game last night and have been brilliant while being here, but lets not down play the added element Zadorov brings to the table... He hits like a truck and the entire team is lifted by his toughness... He can skate like the wind and even joins the rush now and again... There was a lot of talk at the start of the season, that we didn't really have 3-4 dmen and they were all 5-7 d men... Doesn't look like that anymore... Both Z and Soucy can play the no, 4 roles (and by default the no.3 role)... so they are both definitely playing to their pay package... Z will likely come in around $4.5M depending on how much we can afford... and Soucy's play would also warrant a pay rise, had his contract been up at the end of the season... We should be able to afford Z... And lets not forget, how much we missed a big hard hitting Dman who can actually play hockey as well... Edited March 10 by spook007 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 hours ago, Coryberg said: Calling him a 1D makes me think that you're Helen Keller. When he puts it altogether in a game? Yes, he played like a 1D against Boston. If you couldn't see that then you must be pretty new to this sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryberg Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 17 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: He still played more than Cole and Soucy. How do you explain that? He played 3 seconds more than Cole and 18 seconds more than Soucy . The game was firmly in our grasps. You play the bottom of your lineup to rest others. Teddy blueger had 2 minutes more ice time than miller and over 3 minutes more than Lindholm. You give the better players a rest, overplaying a 35 year old Cole (who was still above his average) and fresh back from injury Soucy (who played 1:22 above his average as is) wouldn't have been very good game management. Instead he gave the 3rd pairing a reward with Zadorov playing over 2 minutes above his average and Juulsen playing almost 3 minutes more than his average. I guess the coach had Juulsen play more minutes than he has all year because it was one of the biggest games of the season!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 25 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: He still played more than Cole and Soucy. How do you explain that? That game-to-game their ice time varies? Also, I would hardly call an 18 second difference between the most ice time and least ice time a real difference and there was just 3 seconds difference between Cole and Zadorov. Sure, the Jets game was a big game, but were the Kings and Golden Knights games not? We needed those wins to stop our skid and they're divisional opponents. Zadorov played less than Cole and Soucy in both. Against the Kings he played 1:30 less than Cole and 2:30 less than Soucy and against Vegas he played 1:30 less than Soucy and 2:30 less than Cole. Over the course of the season Cole has averaged 1:45min/game more than Zadorov and Soucy has averaged 25s/game more. Cole has been relied on the most but all three are somewhat interchangeable. That isn't to say Zadorov isn't a nice addition, but he's not in some different tier from Cole and Soucy. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryberg Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 5 minutes ago, HKSR said: When he puts it altogether in a game? Yes, he played like a 1D against Boston. If you couldn't see that then you must be pretty new to this sport. 1D's don't play 17:29 when they put it all together. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 9 minutes ago, Coryberg said: 1D's don't play 17:29 when they put it all together. If you watched the game you'd realize he played like a 1D that game. Doesn't mean Hughes wasn't gonna get his minutes, it just meant our 2nd pair LHD played like a top pair LHD that game. I'm really not sure why it's so hard to comprehend? Did you watch the game? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, Coryberg said: 6th in average ice time is a hell of a stat to ignore. He's got some other stats. 4th in points 3rd in primary assists 137 hits ones you feel the next day. 3rd in Corsi on ice shots % 2nd in Fenwick 5v5 unblocked on ice shots % 1st fewest high danger shots against per 60. Kinda seems like a top 4 to me. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryberg Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Just now, HKSR said: If you watched the game you'd realize he played like a 1D that game. Doesn't mean Hughes wasn't gonna get his minutes, it just meant our 2nd pair LHD played like a top pair LHD that game. I'm really not sure why it's so hard to comprehend? Did you watch the game? I did watch the game, he played well. Was definitely his best game he has played in a canucks uniform. You can't give out 7 year contacts on one good memory though. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Coryberg said: He played 3 seconds more than Cole and 18 seconds more than Soucy . The game was firmly in our grasps. You play the bottom of your lineup to rest others. Teddy blueger had 2 minutes more ice time than miller and over 3 minutes more than Lindholm. You give the better players a rest, overplaying a 35 year old Cole (who was still above his average) and fresh back from injury Soucy (who played 1:22 above his average as is) wouldn't have been very good game management. Instead he gave the 3rd pairing a reward with Zadorov playing over 2 minutes above his average and Juulsen playing almost 3 minutes more than his average. I guess the coach had Juulsen play more minutes than he has all year because it was one of the biggest games of the season!!! Let me explain something that's really simple to understand. At the time we signed Soucy to a 3.25x3 contract, he was averaging 16 minutes a night as a 3rd pairing Dman. He's obviously improved on that since he arrived. So, if he were a UFA this summer, he would also be getting $4 million. Does this make sense now? So, the fact that you're trying to compare Soucy and Zadorov, even though Zadorov has historically played more minutes on average per season than Soucy, is a mute point. Both players would have multiple suitors this summer and getting north of $4 million on the open market... Soucy career average TOI - 16:28 Zadorov career average TOI - 18:06 Edited March 10 by Elias Pettersson 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Just now, Coryberg said: I did watch the game, he played well. Was definitely his best game he has played in a canucks uniform. You can't give out 7 year contacts on one good memory though. It's not like I'm advocating paying him like a 1D, but if you have a defenceman like him that is capable of elevating once in awhile while also generally being a capable top 4D, why would you not lock him up to 7 years? He's likely gonna come in the $4.x range. In 6 or 7 years that's gonna be equivalent to a $3.x AAV contract. Hardly a concern. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 1 minute ago, Coryberg said: I did watch the game, he played well. Was definitely his best game he has played in a canucks uniform. You can't give out 7 year contacts on one good memory though. We basically get a muligan on Tryamkin. I'd like to keep the giant russian D that skates like a unicorn this time around. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: It's not like I'm advocating paying him like a 1D, but if you have a defenceman like him that is capable of elevating once in awhile while also generally being a capable top 4D, why would you not lock him up to 7 years? He's likely gonna come in the $4.x range. In 6 or 7 years that's gonna be equivalent to a $3.x AAV contract. Hardly a concern. At his best, Zadorov can be a 2/3. At his best, Soucy is a 4. This is what some people don't understand. Zadorov can skate circles around Cole and Soucy. And he can also feather the puck to a teammate for a shot on goal. He is also a physical beast with an intimidation factor. Add up all of those things and Zadorov is more valuable than either Soucy or Cole... 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: At his best, Zadorov can be a 2/3. At his best, Soucy is a 4. This is what some people don't understand. Zadorov can skate circles around Cole and Soucy. And he can also feather the puck to a teammate for a shot on goal. He is also a physical beast with an intimidation factor. Add up all of those things and Zadorov is more valuable than either Soucy or Cole... Right? We'd be foolish not to lock him up long term. If we lock up Hronek and Zadorov long term, our D will be rock solid for years. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryberg Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: It's not like I'm advocating paying him like a 1D, but if you have a defenceman like him that is capable of elevating once in awhile while also generally being a capable top 4D, why would you not lock him up to 7 years? He's likely gonna come in the $4.x range. In 6 or 7 years that's gonna be equivalent to a $3.x AAV contract. Hardly a concern. Because he is a 3rd pairing dman and is turning 29 next month, 7 years takes him to age 36!!!! Good teams don't spend 4+ on bottom pairing D, no teams lock up bottom pairing D to 7 year deals (mayfield is the only one close but he was a top 4 when he signed) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryberg Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: At his best, Zadorov can be a 2/3. 11 seasons, 5 teams and God knows how many coaches he has proven he is a solid 5/6.... but Elias the poster has some inside information!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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