[REPORT] Canucks make contract offer to Filip Hronek

[Coryberg]

9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

So you think it's a good idea to play a 35 year old Dman every game the rest of the way when he's clearly tailed off like the other Dmen we have and we have Juulsen sitting in the press box?  We are barely a .500 team since the all star break, but you think we should just keep the status quo and do nothing?  Not only is Cole 35, he is also playing his off side, which makes things even more difficult.  I noticed last game that they had Soucy and Zadorov on the right side on some shifts, so it clearly is a problem to have a left shot on the right side and Tocchet doesn't like it anyways.

 

I know your counter argument will be that Zadorov is the one that should sit as he's barely a #6 dman according to you, but I know that Tocchet will never do that, as Zadorov is the only physical presence we have in the lineup other than Joshua, who isn't playing right now.  Also, Zadorov can actually provide some offence, unlike Cole and Soucy...

I'm fine with resting players, I thought it was a silver lining that Myers and demko were injured so they could get some rest. 

 

It's ridiculous to say that Cole in our top 4 is bad news when he has been there the entire season. Picking out 15 games where the entire team has been garbage and laying it at his feet is laughable.

[NorthWestNuck]

2 hours ago, Coryberg said:

I'm fine with resting players, I thought it was a silver lining that Myers and demko were injured so they could get some rest. 

 

It's ridiculous to say that Cole in our top 4 is bad news when he has been there the entire season. Picking out 15 games where the entire team has been garbage and laying it at his feet is laughable.

It’s not laying it at his feet. It’s called “observation”. And it’s not saying the losses are all his fault. It’s just noticing that he has been our worst defender (or 2nd worst after Myers) over the last 15 games and is getting worse as the games go on. If the team played him top 4 for 2 of every 3 remaining games and sat him the other 1 of 3 and his game improved, that would be fine. No need to get so defensive.

Edited March 18 by NorthWestNuck

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, Coryberg said:

I'm fine with resting players, I thought it was a silver lining that Myers and demko were injured so they could get some rest. 

 

It's ridiculous to say that Cole in our top 4 is bad news when he has been there the entire season. Picking out 15 games where the entire team has been garbage and laying it at his feet is laughable.

 

Are you Ian Cole's Agent?  You sure sound like it.  I never said it was all Cole's fault that we suck the last 19 games.  I said it was our entire defence.  However, what I have observed with my own eyes is that Cole looks worn out from playing every game.  He is not as physical as he was in October and November.  And on top of that he is playing out of position.  And he's our oldest player at 35 years of age.

 

It would be best to rest him and load manage him the rest of the way, especially considering we have Juulsen in the press box who can easily take his spot in the lineup and is also a RHD.  This is not really complicated to understand.  The fact that we have sucked the last 19 games means we should be at least mixing things up.  I would even consider calling up Aatu Raty who is on fire now to see what he can do...

 

One thing I know for sure is that Pius Suter shouldn't be anywhere near our top 6 forwards.  It's a travesty that they have him playing with Petey.  They should have went all in and got Toffoli to play with Petey.  Or traded for Toffoli instead of Lindholm.  Toffoli has 5 points in his last 2 games.  Toffoli playing with Petey and Suter as our 4C would have been my preferred lineup with Blueger as 3C.  I think Allvin fucked up on this one.  Hopefully, Lindholm shows up for the playoffs and proves me wrong...

[Mike Vanderhoek]

On 3/16/2024 at 1:38 PM, stawns said:

 

I think it's probably going to be a step back year next year anyway as some key players are going to price themselves out of town, especially if they spend big on hronek.  Id rather see them qualify hronek, sign their depth guys and then spend next year re-jigging their plan.

 

I think this year has been quite special and developing into a true contender or not I can see a little reduction in the teams point totals. If anything more so because they are not surprising anyone any more.

 

In terms of the personnel, I am not convinced the team will have a dramatic step backwards in terms of letting some guys go. I can see Joshua getting paid elsewhere and one of Myers or Zadorov going elsewhere.

 

The team will have the following expiring contracts at around $ 30 million in value:

 

F Elias Lindholm

F Sam Lafferty------------------Raty at 837k per ???

F Teddy Blueger ----------------extend for 3 years x 2.5m range

F Vasily Podkolzin --------------extend for 1.15m per range

F Dakota Joshua---------------Bains at 817k per ???

D Mark Friedman---------------Brisebois at 775k per ???

D Filip Hronek-------------------extend for 7m per range

D Tyler Myers

D Ian Cole----------------------extend for 2.5m per range

D Nikita Zadorov---------------extend for 4m per range

G Casey DeSmith

 

leaves the team with around 10m+ to fill another forward, defense, and a back up and all three could be filled from within the organization. Maybe they decide to pay for Joshua costing around $ 3m per. Maybe DeSmith comes back around 2m per and Myers or Zadorov, one will be back around 4m per at least. I think the team will be just fine.

 

 

 

[Mac]

13 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

 

I think this year has been quite special and developing into a true contender or not I can see a little reduction in the teams point totals. If anything more so because they are not surprising anyone any more.

 

In terms of the personnel, I am not convinced the team will have a dramatic step backwards in terms of letting some guys go. I can see Joshua getting paid elsewhere and one of Myers or Zadorov going elsewhere.

 

The team will have the following expiring contracts at around $ 30 million in value:

 

F Elias Lindholm

F Sam Lafferty------------------Raty at 837k per ???

F Teddy Blueger ----------------extend for 3 years x 2.5m range

F Vasily Podkolzin --------------extend for 1.15m per range

F Dakota Joshua---------------Bains at 817k per ???

D Mark Friedman---------------Brisebois at 775k per ???

D Filip Hronek-------------------extend for 7m per range

D Tyler Myers

D Ian Cole----------------------extend for 2.5m per range

D Nikita Zadorov---------------extend for 4m per range

G Casey DeSmith

 

leaves the team with around 10m+ to fill another forward, defense, and a back up and all three could be filled from within the organization. Maybe they decide to pay for Joshua costing around $ 3m per. Maybe DeSmith comes back around 2m per and Myers or Zadorov, one will be back around 4m per at least. I think the team will be just fine.

 

 

 

The diff b/w Joshua and Bains is HUUUGGGGE!!

 

I want them to do their best to keep Joshua.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

4 minutes ago, Mac said:

The diff b/w Joshua and Bains is HUUUGGGGE!!

 

I want them to do their best to keep Joshua.

I would like the team to secure deals on Blueger and Cole of their pending UFAs. I think Joshua carries risk with a $ 3m + caphit. He has had a strong showing this season after starting ill-prepared for the season and being a healthy scratch, that has to be taken into account when looking at a new contract. Which, the Canucks seem quite calculated and prepared in their negotiations. This will be the contract Joshua tries to make bank if you look at his age and roles up to now, that may in the end be too much for Vancouver to invest in. Remember we all screamed at the Canucks for signing Beagle, Roussel and so on for bottom six roles at higher than bottom six prices, let's not fall into the same situation here.

[PeteyBOI]

no shit... he deserves to get paid.

[HKSR]

10 minutes ago, PeteyBOI said:

no shit... he deserves to get paid.

What was the original offer reported?  Something like $6.5M AAV?

[DeNiro]

12 minutes ago, HKSR said:

What was the original offer reported?  Something like $6.5M AAV?

Dangerous game to lowball a player too much. I think they did that with Horvat and we all know how that went.

 

A realistic offer has to start with a 7 and then how much term will decide whether it’s closer to 8 or even 8+.

[PhillipBlunt]

33 minutes ago, PeteyBOI said:

no shit... he deserves to get paid.

[Bob Long]

23 minutes ago, HKSR said:

What was the original offer reported?  Something like $6.5M AAV?

 

I wouldn't put much stock in what those dinks S&P have to say, all they have ever done is try to stir things up. Shannon hasn't been an insider for years. 

 

[PeteyBOI]

Canucks fans who want to trade Hronek bcuz he wants $8M, I ask this simple question, who the heck do you replace him with??? Give me another RD who's as good at both ends of the ice and the same age or younger who's available, hint: there are none. PAY HIM!!!

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, PeteyBOI said:

Canucks fans who want to trade Hronek bcuz he wants $8M, I ask this simple question, who the heck do you replace him with???

That's a question for people beyond our paygrade. Hronek is maybe worth $7M, maybe, and that's because he's right handed and offensively inclined. If he didn't have Hughes to play with, he wouldn't look anywhere near as good as he does. 

1 minute ago, PeteyBOI said:

Give me another RD who's as good at both ends of the ice and the same age or younger who's available, hint: there are none. PAY HIM!!!

Hronek is very good at generating offense (mainly with Hughes) and is more of an adventure in his own end than he is reliable. I'm sure Alvin and Rutherford are considering all these points and more, which is why they made the initial offer, which was rejected quickly. The trade that brought Hronek here also factors in, due to the cost, but I don't see management letting themselves getting backed into a corner with Filip. 

[Diamonds]

24 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

That's a question for people beyond our paygrade. Hronek is maybe worth $7M, maybe, and that's because he's right handed and offensively inclined. If he didn't have Hughes to play with, he wouldn't look anywhere near as good as he does. 

Hronek is very good at generating offense (mainly with Hughes) and is more of an adventure in his own end than he is reliable. I'm sure Alvin and Rutherford are considering all these points and more, which is why they made the initial offer, which was rejected quickly. The trade that brought Hronek here also factors in, due to the cost, but I don't see management letting themselves getting backed into a corner with Filip. 

Hronek is also an RFA so if they truly hit an impasse PA and JR can always trade his rights for a decent hull. This isn't a scenario where we either sign him or lose him for nothing, we will be getting at least something.

 

Also I don't love that I keep seeing a lot of posters saying that we need to overpay Hronek and Zadorov because they're really important and we need to keep them. If we want the Canucks to be competitive for more than just a year they need to be smart about the cap and not just overpay a bunch of guys because we like them. But that's also part of PA and JR needing to get players to start buying into this team.

[wai_lai416]

36 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

That's a question for people beyond our paygrade. Hronek is maybe worth $7M, maybe, and that's because he's right handed and offensively inclined. If he didn't have Hughes to play with, he wouldn't look anywhere near as good as he does. 

Hronek is very good at generating offense (mainly with Hughes) and is more of an adventure in his own end than he is reliable. I'm sure Alvin and Rutherford are considering all these points and more, which is why they made the initial offer, which was rejected quickly. The trade that brought Hronek here also factors in, due to the cost, but I don't see management letting themselves getting backed into a corner with Filip. 

lol all these Hughes made hronek look good crap.. he’s literally playing the same way he was last season in Detroit without Hughes.. and his stats last season with Detroit and this year in Vancouver is very similar.. Hughes on the other hand is looking way better than he was last season though… so is it not possible hronek compliments Hughes and unlock him to next level?

[BC_Hawk]

On 3/18/2024 at 2:32 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Are you Ian Cole's Agent?  You sure sound like it.  I never said it was all Cole's fault that we suck the last 19 games.  I said it was our entire defence.  However, what I have observed with my own eyes is that Cole looks worn out from playing every game.  He is not as physical as he was in October and November.  And on top of that he is playing out of position.  And he's our oldest player at 35 years of age.

 

It would be best to rest him and load manage him the rest of the way, especially considering we have Juulsen in the press box who can easily take his spot in the lineup and is also a RHD.  This is not really complicated to understand.  The fact that we have sucked the last 19 games means we should be at least mixing things up.  I would even consider calling up Aatu Raty who is on fire now to see what he can do...

 

One thing I know for sure is that Pius Suter shouldn't be anywhere near our top 6 forwards.  It's a travesty that they have him playing with Petey.  They should have went all in and got Toffoli to play with Petey.  Or traded for Toffoli instead of Lindholm.  Toffoli has 5 points in his last 2 games.  Toffoli playing with Petey and Suter as our 4C would have been my preferred lineup with Blueger as 3C.  I think Allvin fucked up on this one.  Hopefully, Lindholm shows up for the playoffs and proves me wrong...

Agree 100% on the D; Cole was ridiculously good the first few months...then had to eat a ton of minutes in Soucy's absences. He should be rested for 5-8 games here so we have October/November Cole come playoffs. He will be a HUGE part of any success we have.

 

As for fwds, I agree on Suter; should be no where near the top 6. Having said that, though not killing it on offense, Lindy was a great acquisition to balance the team off. And though I would have liked Toffoli too, you can see that our top 6 is going to become crowded as Mikaheyev is finding his wings and Podz is starting to exert his size (laying hits) more. I'd like to see RT Tocchet role this fwd lineup here for a bit:

 

Podz-Petterson-Hogs

Mik-Miller-Beoser

Suter (DJ when back)-Lindholm-Garland

PDG (Suter when DJ back)-Blueger-Lafferty

 

That is a really well balanced lineup

[PhillipBlunt]

22 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

Hronek is also an RFA so if they truly hit an impasse PA and JR can always trade his rights for a decent hull. This isn't a scenario where we either sign him or lose him for nothing, we will be getting at least something.

Exactly. Alvin isn't going to run out of time. 

22 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

Also I don't love that I keep seeing a lot of posters saying that we need to overpay Hronek and Zadorov because they're really important and we need to keep them. If we want the Canucks to be competitive for more than just a year they need to be smart about the cap and not just overpay a bunch of guys because we like them. But that's also part of PA and JR needing to get players to start buying into this team.

I trust that Alvin will be methodical about their signings, keeping in mind the chemistry of the roster. They've been solid so far, so I trust their intuition regarding the offseason. 

[PhillipBlunt]

15 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol all these Hughes made hronek look good crap.. he’s literally playing the same way he was last season in Detroit without Hughes.. and his stats last season with Detroit and this year in Vancouver is very similar.. Hughes on the other hand is looking way better than he was last season though… so is it not possible hronek compliments Hughes and unlock him to next level?

Hughes elevates anyone who plays with him. He's clearly the dominant force on the pairing. To suggest that Hronek is the key to that pairing is laughable. 

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, PeteyBOI said:

no shit... he deserves to get paid.

negotiation tactics. nothing alarming here. 

 

[N4ZZY]

34 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

Hronek is also an RFA so if they truly hit an impasse PA and JR can always trade his rights for a decent hull. This isn't a scenario where we either sign him or lose him for nothing, we will be getting at least something.

But will what we get from a Hronek trade be a player that is of the same ilk and ability as Hronek? Because if not, then we lose on a trade like that, and the team isn't any better for it. We're worse. 

 

[Coryberg]

1 hour ago, N4ZZY said:

negotiation tactics. nothing alarming here. 

 

Right? If they accepted the first offer it wouldn't be a negotiation at all. People need to realize that agents are well versed in this process, as is Castonguay (from both sides of the table). There will be multiple offers and counters over the coming months.

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, N4ZZY said:

negotiation tactics. nothing alarming here. 

 

Pretty much.

 

Im gonna assume that they thought him and his agent would come in at the high end of around 8.5 so they started with a 6.5 offer.

 

The goal will be to slowly work towards a deal around 7.5 which I think would be fair for both sides.

 

 

[Dr. Crossbar]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol all these Hughes made hronek look good crap.. he’s literally playing the same way he was last season in Detroit without Hughes.. and his stats last season with Detroit and this year in Vancouver is very similar.. Hughes on the other hand is looking way better than he was last season though… so is it not possible hronek compliments Hughes and unlock him to next level?

 

Excellent post! Hronek is actually playing a more measured game here in Van in how he sees the ice with higher IQ and awareness. It's a different dimension to his game than in Detroit. 

 

His game has absolutely allowed Hughes to go to the next level because Hughes isn't trying to carry more than he should. Their hockey IQs and intuition really compliment each other.

 

This is a really good breakdown from earlier in the season that explains why they've been so effective together and how Hronek intuitively compliments Hughes and has allowed him to go to the next level.

 

 

 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

3 hours ago, PeteyBOI said:

no shit... he deserves to get paid.

 

I call BS.

 

Yes the cap is going up so people may be surprised at some deals being signed at a higher looking cap number starting next season but those numbers will over 2-3 seasons look fairly comfortable as a fan looking at team payrolls etc.

 

A fair number would be the $ 55 million over 8 years, giving him a cap hit of $ 6.875m per. $7m - $7.25m I could see but nothing flirting with Hughes number. 

 

 

[Rekker]

15 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Pretty much.

 

Im gonna assume that they thought him and his agent would come in at the high end of around 8.5 so they started with a 6.5 offer.

 

The goal will be to slowly work towards a deal around 7.5 which I think would be fair for both sides.

 

 

This. I really focused on Hronek and his game last night. He is legit and does so many things right while making it look easy. No slouch physically either. He's a legit top two righty on any team. 7.5 sounds about right but really. He may get 8 or 8.5 from a team that has the cap. But is it a good team? Crap city? As usual will come down to how much the player really wants to be here.