HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 4 minutes ago, fanofvan said: Alrighty then….I’m sure if he was a UFA he’d get paid like a 38 point dman (his high prior to this year). Right? OMG, it's such a stupid argument that people think Hronek is gonna be getting $6.xx AAV. He will get over $7M. It's obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 We will gain cap space by losing one or both of Cole and/or Myers. We trade Mik, even for a late round pick or future considerations, there's $4.75 million right there. If Soucy can make Cole or Myers look good. He will be protected with Juulsen as his defensive partner. We can look at our prospects or Farm to fill the last RHD. Zads paired probably with anyone on the third pair would be fine. If you insist that Juulsen isn't ready for top 4 defence. Both Soucy and Zads can play on the right side in D. Then you have Juulsen, Breezer or Wolanin on the 3rd pairing. We have to stop looking outside for answers and start developing our own players to fill in the gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: Of course, the Boeser isn't a 30 goal forward argument all over again. It's a such a stupid argument especially when Hronek is literally 5 points away with 11 games left. What matters is what his production is right now, and the fact he was on pace to have done the same thing last year. It's clear he's a 50 point defenceman whether you wanna play numbers games or not. There's literally no defenceman that produces at that level that would sign for under $7M at age 26. Period. Even John Klingberg who is ATROCIOUS defensively signed for a $7M contract for a year at 30 years old. That was a 47 point campaign. Hronek is 4 years younger and much better defensively (relative to Klingberg). $7M+ is the going rate for a RHD that puts up this level of production. It's as simple as that. He wasn't a 30 goal scorer until he actually scored 30, that's indisputable. I'm not sure how anyone argued otherwise. Show me the number 30 under his season goal total prior to this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 4 minutes ago, Pickly said: He’s a 6 - 6.5 million dollar guy. If I were the Canucks I’d tread carefully and not offer him anything in the 7’s let alone 8’s which is absurd. Have to agree with @stawns on this one. And I love Hronek and want to see him stay. However, I want to see the team not be top heavy even more 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Just now, HKSR said: Of course, the Boeser isn't a 30 goal forward argument all over again. It's a such a stupid argument especially when Hronek is literally 5 points away with 11 games left. What matters is what his production is right now, and the fact he was on pace to have done the same thing last year. It's clear he's a 50 point defenceman whether you wanna play numbers games or not. There's literally no defenceman that produces at that level that would sign for under $7M at age 26. Period. Even John Klingberg who is ATROCIOUS defensively signed for a $7M contract for a year at 30 years old. That was a 47 point campaign. Hronek is 4 years younger and much better defensively (relative to Klingberg). $7M+ is the going rate for a RHD that puts up this level of production. It's as simple as that. The reality is he wasn't a 30 goal scorer he is now. He likely wouldn't be if it weren't for riding shotty w Miller he even admitted it. Brock has the highest OZ starts of any player by a mile and an un sustainable shooting % that we are seeing creep back down. In the last 20 games since the games have become more meaningful he has 6g. 24-25g pace. In the bubble he put up 4g in 17 games tied with Motte and Pearson who did not have the cream deployment Brock enjoyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzle Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 8 minutes ago, stawns said: He wasn't a 30 goal scorer until he actually scored 30, that's indisputable. I'm not sure how anyone argued otherwise. Show me the number 30 under his season goal total prior to this year We’ve had this discussion before… and you’re right in a very important sense, but he also consistently scored at a 30 goal pace throughout his career. Staying healthy was the problem, scoring goals never was. His goal average had him as a career 30 goal guy even though he never hit the number in a season before this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 55 minutes ago, HKSR said: He's worth more than $7m. I could rephrase the question and ask what 50pt RHD makes less than $7m and the result would be the same. There's none. $7.x AAV is not big money in the grand scheme of things. Especially for a top pairing RHD capable of 50pts+. I'd say big money is the $9m+ range. Once you have a bunch of guys making that kinda money, it gets difficult. The Canucks moving into next season will have 1 player making over $8M and it'll stay that way until Quinn Hughes contract comes due. That's a very solid cap structure IMO. I didn't think too hard about it, but Weeger is roughly a 50 point defensemen, a bit under. But is a better defensive all around defensemen. And makes well under 7 million. Last year Montour got way more then 50 for well under 7. Edited March 24 by MeanSeanBean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzle Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 2 minutes ago, Hammertime said: The reality is he wasn't a 30 goal scorer he is now. He likely wouldn't be if it weren't for riding shotty w Miller he even admitted it. Brock has the highest OZ starts of any player by a mile and an un sustainable shooting % that we are seeing creep back down. In the last 20 games since the games have become more meaningful he has 6g. 24-25g pace. In the bubble he put up 4g in 17 games tied with Motte and Pearson who did not have the cream deployment Brock enjoyed. He’s literally a 30.5 goals per 82 games played. His entire career he has played and paced as a 30 goal scorer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, Dizzle said: We’ve had this discussion before… and you’re right in a very important sense, but he also consistently scored at a 30 goal pace throughout his career. Staying healthy was the problem, scoring goals never was. His goal average had him as a career 30 goal guy even though he never hit the number in a season before this year. This is why I'm not replying to anybody about the 30 goal Boeser argument. It was obvious that Boeser was gonna hit 30 one day... just as it's obvious Hronek will hit 50 points one day. No point denying it just to win an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, MeanSeanBean said: I didn't think too hard about it, but Weeger is roughly a 50 point defensemen, a bit under. But is a better defensive all around defensemen. And makes well under 7 million. Last year Montour got way more then 50 for well under 7. I responded regarding Weegar above. It's a Miller vs Petey comparison. Montour signed his deal after an 18 point campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Just now, HKSR said: I responded regarding Weegar above. It's a Miller vs Petey comparison. Montour signed his deal after an 18 point campaign. You said none, I'm just point out thats wrong, and Weeger still exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 11 minutes ago, HKSR said: Right? OMG, it's such a stupid argument that people think Hronek is gonna be getting $6.xx AAV. He will get over $7M. It's obvious. I think he will too I would imagine high 7's and I'm ok with that. But lets not sugar coat it he's absolutely inflated due to playing with hughes. Luke Schenn put up 21 in 55 does that make him a 31 point top 4D? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 11 minutes ago, Dizzle said: We’ve had this discussion before… and you’re right in a very important sense, but he also consistently scored at a 30 goal pace throughout his career. Staying healthy was the problem, scoring goals never was. His goal average had him as a career 30 goal guy even though he never hit the number in a season before this year. So virtanen was a 21 goal scorer then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 9 minutes ago, Dizzle said: He’s literally a 30.5 goals per 82 games played. His entire career he has played and paced as a 30 goal scorer. 30.2 but who's counting? I'm not here to split hairs. Happy he finally did it. All that really matters is if he can do it in the playoffs or if he shrinks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzle Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 2 minutes ago, stawns said: So virtanen was a 21 goal scorer then? No. He was an 18 goal scorer with a career average of 14.2 goals per 82 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 5 minutes ago, Hammertime said: I think he will too I would imagine high 7's and I'm ok with that. But lets not sugar coat it he's absolutely inflated due to playing with hughes. Luke Schenn put up 21 in 55 does that make him a 31 point top 4D? Mid to high 7s in the cost of doing business. But I don't think he's a 8 million dollar defensemen, which is the rumoured ask. I'm not sure why 7s has become the talking point, cause everything I've heard is the ask is in the 8s. Which I don't think he is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Just now, Dizzle said: No. He was an 18 goal scorer with a career average of 14.2 goals per 82 games. But one year he had 18 goals in 69 games for a 21.4 goal pace over 82 games. That makes him a 21 goal scorer, no? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 7 minutes ago, Hammertime said: I think he will too I would imagine high 7's and I'm ok with that. But lets not sugar coat it he's absolutely inflated due to playing with hughes. Luke Schenn put up 21 in 55 does that make him a 31 point top 4D? If he was on pace for 50 and he played more than 3/4 of a season, I think it's fair to assume he would have either hit the mark or got very, very close to it. Close enough that for arguments sake, it still wouldn't put Hronek in the $6m AAV range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 12 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said: You said none, I'm just point out thats wrong, and Weeger still exists. Well with the way these arguments are going, technically Weegar isn't a 50 point defenceman either lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, MeanSeanBean said: Mid to high 7s in the cost of doing business. But I don't think he's a 8 million dollar defensemen, which is the rumoured ask. I'm not sure why 7s has become the talking point, cause everything I've heard is the ask is in the 8s. Which I don't think he is. That's just to whip the fan's into a lather then when he signs for 7.7 it will be a "discount" and @HSKR can make a thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 31 minutes ago, HKSR said: Right? OMG, it's such a stupid argument that people think Hronek is gonna be getting $6.xx AAV. He will get over $7M. It's obvious. Ironically, it was you who brought it up No one is saying he's going to get that, we're saying if his ask is over $7, then the canuckx should move him for assets and let another team overpay him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, HKSR said: Well with the way these arguments are going, technically Weegar isn't a 50 point defenceman either lol Nope, but he's only 5 points less than hronek and it was you who said it's only 5 points, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzle Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Just now, stawns said: But one year he had 18 goals in 69 games for a 21.4 goal pace over 82 games. That makes him a 21 goal scorer, no? Please try and take the time to hear what I’m saying rather than just continuing to make your point or fight with a straw man. What I’ve said is really not that complicated: 1.) I agreed with you that up until this year Brock was, in a very important sense - the sense that he’d never actually done it in a season - not a 30 goal scorer. This erases the Virtanin discussion you’re trying to start, I’m not pro rating to a season. 2.) over the course of his career Brock averaged over 30 goals per 82 games played. In thag sense, he is in the discussion for 30 goal scorers. His career average has always been there, so no one should be surprised that on a healthy year he would hit or top 30 goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 2 minutes ago, stawns said: Ironically, it was you who brought it up No one is saying he's going to get that, we're saying if his ask is over $7, then the canuckx should move him for assets and let another team overpay him. And I'm saying it'd be stupid to do so because he would just be getting what he's worth. One guy in weegar who is also 2 years older doesn't define the value of a RHD with his level of production. It's that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 5 minutes ago, Dizzle said: Please try and take the time to hear what I’m saying rather than just continuing to make your point or fight with a straw man. What I’ve said is really not that complicated: 1.) I agreed with you that up until this year Brock was, in a very important sense - the sense that he’d never actually done it in a season - not a 30 goal scorer. This erases the Virtanin discussion you’re trying to start, I’m not pro rating to a season. 2.) over the course of his career Brock averaged over 30 goals per 82 games played. In thag sense, he is in the discussion for 30 goal scorers. His career average has always been there, so no one should be surprised that on a healthy year he would hit or top 30 goals. Only because of this season and I agree people can say he's a 30 goal scorer now. I'm not sure why you think I've said differently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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