HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Just now, stawns said: Again, you're stuck on what they'll get, no one is arguing that. If teams want to overpay for long term deals and hancuff themselves down the road and more power to them. I hope Van doesn't "What they'll get" is market value! LMAO! OMG, I'm done here. If you don't understand the concept of market value, there's no point arguing with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, HKSR said: I'm pretty certain you mentioned how the 99 point campaign was likely his career year. Not gonna go dig to find out, but if you say you didn't, then I'll take your word for it. I did and it very well might be. He's at 90 points now, not 99. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 8 minutes ago, stawns said: And I'm saying, sell high and let another team over pay him. If we were to trade him as a pending RFA, I think we'd be doing what Calgary did with Matty Tkachuk, and most teams can't offer more than just quarters to make up the whole dollar of what a Hronek on our team would be. If Hronek at $8 million can be a 50+ point guy for years then I'd be okay with him being paid, even if it's higher than what Hughes makes by a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Just now, stawns said: I did and it very well might be. He's at 90 points now, not 99. These next 11 games just got very interesting. Hronek to 50 Miller to 100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, HKSR said: These are the RHD this year likely to finish in the high 30pt range or more. Other than Weegar (who seems to be the only guy that people are using as a comparable here), who else would come in under $7M AAV? lol I think youre looking at it with the wrong scope. The primary role of a defender is to defend or Tyson Barrie would have gotten the big enchilada. Factually Hroneks defensive metrics are not super amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Just now, HKSR said: "What they'll get" is market value! LMAO! OMG, I'm done here. If you don't understand the concept of market value, there's no point arguing with you. You're confusing market value with value to the team. No one is arguing market value.......everyone here thinks he'll likely get $8mx8. The argument is van the team that should do that. Definitely not is my opinion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: If we were to trade him as a pending RFA, I think we'd be doing what Calgary did with Matty Tkachuk, and most teams can't offer more than just quarters to make up the whole dollar of what a Hronek on our team would be. If Hronek at $8 million can be a 50+ point guy for years then I'd be okay with him being paid, even if it's higher than what Hughes makes by a bit. So let his agent go to teams and work out a new deal. If they find a team willing to re-sign him at the number and terms he wants, come back to the Canucks and let them negotiate a trade with that team. Obviously they can't officially negotiate a new deal, but they can certainly talk the talk. Edited March 24 by stawns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Just now, stawns said: You're confusing market value with value to the team. No one is arguing market value.......everyone here thinks he'll likely get $8mx8. The argument is van the team that should do that. Definitely not is my opinion His value to the team is top pairing RHD. Those are extremely rare as evidenced above. We've been screaming to the GM of the Canucks to find Hughes his top pairing RHD. We finally find him, and now he's not worth keeping because he might get market value??? Where's the logic in that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 4 minutes ago, HKSR said: These next 11 games just got very interesting. Hronek to 50 Miller to 100 And I hope they get there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 3 minutes ago, Hammertime said: I think youre looking at it with the wrong scope. The primary role of a defender is to defend or Tyson Barrie would have gotten the big enchilada. Factually Hroneks defensive metrics are not super amazing. He's nowhere near bad enough to warrant the disrespect he's getting here. If he was, do you think coach Tocchet would have him out there for over 20min a night? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, HKSR said: His value to the team is top pairing RHD. Those are extremely rare as evidenced above. We've been screaming to the GM of the Canucks to find Hughes his top pairing RHD. We finally find him, and now he's not worth keeping because he might get market value??? Where's the logic in that? I disagree. He's playing with the top scoring dman in the league. If he's a top 2 defenceman he can anchor his own pair and run a successful pp2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, HKSR said: He's nowhere near bad enough to warrant the disrespect he's getting here. If he was, do you think coach Tocchet would have him out there for over 20min a night? He's not getting distedpect at all, I love hronek. What is it with you people that posters can't be objective without you thinking it's based on disrespect or not liking a player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Just now, stawns said: I disagree. He's playing with the top scoring dman in the league. If he's a top 2 defenceman he can anchor his own pair and run a successful pp2 Lots of guys have rotated through with Hughes. None of them have looked as solid as Hronek, and none of them have helped elevate Hughes' game to another level. If Hronek was that bad, he wouldn't be 2nd in ATOI on this team. He wouldn't be 3rd in SHTOI either. Unless now we're doubting what our coaches think. Yeesh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, stawns said: He's not getting distedpect at all, I love hronek. What is it with you people that posters can't be objective without you thinking it's based on disrespect or not liking a player? I'm as objective as they come. I work off of numbers and facts. If you can prove to me somehow that Hughes isn't having the best season of his career next to Hronek, then I'm all ears. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 8 minutes ago, HKSR said: I'd be surprised by that. If he goes, he'll likely get into a situation where he could potentially get PP1 time. His offence is limited here to EV or PP2. I wouldn't say he's excelling on the PP though he's got that big point shot he's only hit the net with it 18 times with 1 goal to show for it 5v4 in 117mins of pp time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, HKSR said: I'm as objective as they come. I work off of numbers and facts. If you can prove to me somehow that Hughes isn't having the best season of his career next to Hronek, then I'm all ears. If you look at things based strictly off the numbers wouldn't you have concluded that Quinn Hughes has consistently scored more each year? If anything the jump from last year to this year seems low considering he was playing with Schenn/Juulsen last year and Hronek this year, if Hronek is an 8 million dollar defensemen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Just now, Hammertime said: I wouldn't say he's excelling on the PP though he's got that big point shot he's only hit the net with it 18 times with 1 goal to show for it 5v4 in 117mins of pp time. Lol, no disrespect, but NOBODY is excelling on the PP here hahaha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Just now, MeanSeanBean said: If you look at things based strictly off the numbers wouldn't you have concluded that Quinn Hughes has consistently scored more each year? If anything the jump from last year to this year seems low considering he was playing with Schenn/Juulsen last year and Hronek this year, if Hronek is an 8 million dollar defensemen. Hughes-Hronek pair: https://www.naturalstattrick.com/pairings.php?fromseason=20232024&thruseason=20232024&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=ALL&loc=B&toi=500&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410 Among all the pairs in the league playing 500 or more minutes together: 6th in CF% 10th in FF% 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 hour ago, stawns said: You can't call yourself a 50 point player until you've actually hit 50 points. You claimed he was a 50 point player in Detroit.....he wasn't, he was a 38 point player. So virtanen was a 20 goal man in van? -Ray Ferrarro has said, on a few occasions "just because you scored 30 goals one season, doesn't make you a 30 goal scorer. It could mean you are a 25 avg. goal guy, that had 1 great year". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 2 minutes ago, HKSR said: Hughes-Hronek pair: https://www.naturalstattrick.com/pairings.php?fromseason=20232024&thruseason=20232024&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=ALL&loc=B&toi=500&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410 Among all the pairs in the league playing 500 or more minutes together: 6th in CF% 10th in FF% So they should over pay hronek because he gets to play with Hughes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 5 minutes ago, stawns said: So they should over pay hronek because he gets to play with Hughes? No, they should pay Hronek market value because he helps to create a legit elite level defensive pair for this franchise. How do you even come up with these conclusions? In one sentence, market value = overpaying to you, and somehow the Hronek-Hughes pairing is one of the best in the league, but it's nothing to do with Hronek, all to do with Hughes? Totally because Hughes pairs were at this level in the past with Schenn/Juulsen right? Did the homework for you... With Schenn: 23rd in CF% 28th in FF% But facts don't matter to you. Somehow I'm the one that is not objective. Edited March 24 by HKSR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, HKSR said: Lol, no disrespect, but NOBODY is excelling on the PP here hahaha JT Miller sits 5th in points 5v4, Huggy 10th, Pete 15th, 3 players in the top 15 aint bad. In terms of PP% I think we're 13thso not amazing but not as bad as it feels like sometimes watching it. For a lil perspective Matthews is 30th, Makar 20th, in points 5v4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 4 minutes ago, HKSR said: Hughes-Hronek pair: https://www.naturalstattrick.com/pairings.php?fromseason=20232024&thruseason=20232024&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=ALL&loc=B&toi=500&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410 Among all the pairs in the league playing 500 or more minutes together: 6th in CF% 10th in FF% Now is that due to Hughes, or Hronek? Correct me if I'm wrong, but both those stats look much better on Hughes individually then Hronek. The eye test on Hronek also subjectively tells me Hronek is quite average defensively while Hughes has improved drastically, yet again. I'm not convinced that Hronek makes Hughes all that much better. Yes, Hronek is objectively the best player Hughes has played with, but he still entirely carries the pair. I sure hope we don't give Hronek more then Hughes just for being fortunate enough to play with an elite player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, HKSR said: No, they should pay Hronek market value because he helps to create a legit elite level defensive pair for this franchise. How do you even come up with these conclusions? In one sentence, market value = overpaying to you, and somehow the Hronek-Hughes pairing is one of the best in the league, but it's nothing to do with Hronek, all to do with Hughes? Totally because Hughes pairs were at this level in the past with Schenn/Juulsen right? Market value and what's best for the team aren't always the same thing. It's not really a difficult concept to grasp. Lots of teams walk away from a player they don't think fits their salary scheme 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, Hammertime said: JT Miller sits 5th in points 5v4, Huggy 10th, Pete 15th, 3 players in the top 15 aint bad. In terms of PP% I think we're 13thso not amazing but not as bad as it feels like sometimes watching it. For a lil perspective Matthews is 30th, Makar 20th, in points 5v4 Would be curious to see points per PP TOI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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