stawns Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 4 hours ago, MeanSeanBean said: Sure, and I don't think that's a very good argument personally. It's also a good defensive team vs a bad one. I just find is strange you claim to be 100% objective and based off numbers, but very frequently your argument seems to ignore tons of factors that lead to true objectiveness. And a franchise dman having his breakout year vs that same dman still developing 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said: The people that were wrong about him want him to fail so they can be right. Just think about how long people were crying on here for exactly what Hronek is ... as evidenced by his impact and the caliber of top D duo we have now. You pay for top D. That's what contenders are doing. Who was wrong about him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 11 minutes ago, stawns said: Who was wrong about him? Lol ... nice try. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Just now, Dr. Crossbar said: Lol ... nice try. I can only speak for myself, but if you go back to CDC and the original trade thread, you'd see I was fully on board with the trade and adamant that we just Detroit's #1 dman. You'd also find that I thought it was possible they might have to deal him if he priced himself out of van. If you go back to the pre-seadon thread, you'd find that I was one of the very few who said Hughes and Hronek should play together to make a true #1 pairing. However, you continue with your ridiculous false narrative about posters who talk objectively about players "hating" those players and I'll go on referring to you and your lot as the MAGA chuds of Canucks hockey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 5 hours ago, stawns said: So they should over pay hronek because he gets to play with Hughes? Purely for the sake of argument….. you let Hronek go, who you replacing him with on the top pair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 4 hours ago, Hammertime said: He also leads the team (not in the good way) in giveaways 48, D zone giveaways 38, high danger shots against per 60 4.29, and on ice goals against per 60 3.33. 1 giveaway worse than Hughes, who sits at 47. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Just now, fanofvan said: Purely for the sake of argument….. you let Hronek go, who you replacing him with on the top pair? You either go ufa shopping or use the assets get from a hronek deal to make a trade.......that's how they got hronek in the first place, so why not try and find another hronek type deal As far as UFA goes, why not make a hard play for pesce? You give up offense, but gain a lot defensively and physically, something RT would love I'm sure. Hughes Peace Soucy Myers Zadorov Juulsen Cole That's a deep, physical dcorp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Just now, fanofvan said: Purely for the sake of argument….. you let Hronek go, who you replacing him with on the top pair? Some people think Juulsen. Im not going back to the Benning days! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 2 minutes ago, stawns said: You either go ufa shopping or use the assets get from a hronek deal to make a trade.......that's how they got hronek in the first place, so why not try and find another hronek type deal As far as UFA goes, why not make a hard play for pesce? You give up offense, but gain a lot defensively and physically, something RT would love I'm sure. Hughes Peace Soucy Myers Zadorov Juulsen Cole That's a deep, physical dcorp. Pesce will be nearly 30 and will want a significant raise on his $4.05m (rumoured he was looking for over $7m). He’s a big body that offers essentially no physicality with only 22 hits in 61 games, which is about 1/4 of the hits Hronek has. In addition, Pesce offers very little in the way of offense so who’d be the D on the PP2 in your lineup? So you’re signing UFA’s Pesce, Myers, Zadorov, and Cole plus replacing/signing Lindholm, Blueger, Lafferty, Joshua, and DeSmith? Seems like a realistic offseason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 15 minutes ago, fanofvan said: Pesce will be nearly 30 and will want a significant raise on his $4.05m (rumoured he was looking for over $7m). He’s a big body that offers essentially no physicality with only 22 hits in 61 games, which is about 1/4 of the hits Hronek has. In addition, Pesce offers very little in the way of offense so who’d be the D on the PP2 in your lineup? So you’re signing UFA’s Pesce, Myers, Zadorov, and Cole plus replacing/signing Lindholm, Blueger, Lafferty, Joshua, and DeSmith? Seems like a realistic offseason. What Pesce does offer is elite defensive play. He’s one of the best in his discipline. Up there with Tanev and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 13 minutes ago, fanofvan said: Pesce will be nearly 30 and will want a significant raise on his $4.05m (rumoured he was looking for over $7m). He’s a big body that offers essentially no physicality with only 22 hits in 61 games, which is about 1/4 of the hits Hronek has. In addition, Pesce offers very little in the way of offense so who’d be the D on the PP2 in your lineup? So you’re signing UFA’s Pesce, Myers, Zadorov, and Cole plus replacing/signing Lindholm, Blueger, Lafferty, Joshua, and DeSmith? Seems like a realistic offseason. Pesce has 13 points, he'll get a raise, but not even close to salary if hronek. He'll likely come in around $6m, maximum. Hrs a solid defender and would probably free Hughes up even more to attack. If not, go looking for another hronek type deal with assetx you'd get by dealing hronek Plenty of ways to skin that cat .......hronek is a long way from irreplaceable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Just now, PhillipBlunt said: What Pesce does offer is elite defensive play. He’s one of the best in his discipline. Up there with Tanev and others. That's right and elite defensive play doesn't get paid the way offense does 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Depending on the ask, moving hronek might allow van to keep Myers, zad and Lindholm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 2 minutes ago, stawns said: Pesce has 13 points, he'll get a raise, but not even close to salary if hronek. He'll likely come in around $6m, maximum. Hrs a solid defender and would probably free Hughes up even more to attack. If not, go looking for another hronek type deal with assetx you'd get by dealing hronek Plenty of ways to skin that cat .......hronek is a long way from irreplaceable It’ll be one of Pesce’s last contracts and if it was $6m then Carolina would have extended him instead of paying Orlov $7.75m. Also I don’t have access to all the fancy analytics but Pesce doesn’t seem like an elite defensive defenseman to me….and I could very well be wrong about that. So you want to replace Hronek with someone like Hronek but will cost less than Hronek? And when that player becomes a RFA just rinse and repeat? Seems like a good way to build a core. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Just now, stawns said: Depending on the ask, moving hronek might allow van to keep Myers, zad and Lindholm. Zero interest in keeping Lindholm. I’d rather spend on Hronek than resign Lindholm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 minutes ago, fanofvan said: It’ll be one of Pesce’s last contracts and if it was $6m then Carolina would have extended him instead of paying Orlov $7.75m. Also I don’t have access to all the fancy analytics but Pesce doesn’t seem like an elite defensive defenseman to me….and I could very well be wrong about that. So you want to replace Hronek with someone like Hronek but will cost less than Hronek? And when that player becomes a RFA just rinse and repeat? Seems like a good way to build a core. So you think tanev is getting more than $6m? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 22 minutes ago, stawns said: I can only speak for myself, but if you go back to CDC and the original trade thread, you'd see I was fully on board with the trade and adamant that we just Detroit's #1 dman. You'd also find that I thought it was possible they might have to deal him if he priced himself out of van. If you go back to the pre-seadon thread, you'd find that I was one of the very few who said Hughes and Hronek should play together to make a true #1 pairing. However, you continue with your ridiculous false narrative about posters who talk objectively about players "hating" those players and I'll go on referring to you and your lot as the MAGA chuds of Canucks hockey. Wow! Now that was quite a reaction from a usual one sentence wonder. Not once did I refer to you - not once - but I bet you've been salivating to write that. Good on you. Kudos. Well done! You don't fool me, Stawns. Not at all. So cut the political insults. It doesn't work on me whatsoever. But you know as well as I do how those Hronek threads went down and who got it right and wrong. If you're saying you got it all right from the beginning (I was there too and well aware), well, then you of all people should get and understand all too well Hronek's value to this team winning, his true value as a young RHD, that value and why it commands more, his impact on both Hughes and our blueline, etc, and why things are the way they are with him. We actually should be in full agreement on all of this. But then ... you talk of moving Hronek to keep Zad, Myers, and Lindholm. WTF??? Moving Hronek, that doesn't happen when you finally have a top caliber duo in Hughes and Hronek. Hughes is absolutely going to have a say in how he feels about re-signing Hronek. Especially now that we're good and a winning team. And for the record, the more than accurate narratives around those negative posters write themselves. And sincerely, given recent events, don't get so worked up. It's not good for you and not worth it. I'd rather you put me on ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 I’d look to trade Hronek if he’s asking for more than $6.5M. There’s just no way you can justify signing him to that contract beyond that given there are better defenseman than him (Forsling, Slavin, Parayko, Sanheim) making at or less than $6.5M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 minute ago, stawns said: So you think tanev is getting more than $6m? Taney is 34 and has played a full season once in his career, so no. What did Pulock, Parayko, and Orlov recently sign for? I’d say they are similar to Pesce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 9 minutes ago, fanofvan said: Zero interest in keeping Lindholm. I’d rather spend on Hronek than resign Lindholm. We'll see in the playoffs I guess. He wins a lot of faceoffs and is always the first pick when it comes to protecting a lead in the last minute. A lot more to hockey than offense, a lot 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 (edited) 3 minutes ago, stawns said: We'll see in the playoffs I guess. He wins a lot of faceoffs and is always the first pick when it comes to protecting a lead in the last minute. A lot more to hockey than offense, a lot So the Canucks gave up those assets for faceoffs and defensive play? Ok. Edited March 25 by fanofvan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Just now, fanofvan said: Taney is 34 and has played a full season once in his career, so no. What did Pulock, Parayko, and Orlov recently sign for? I’d say they are similar to Pesce. All of all those players, pulock is probably the only real comparable and his cap hit is $6.15m. the other two have several seasons of mid to high 30's in points. Pulock also signed that deal when he was 27, in the prime of his career, not 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 minutes ago, fanofvan said: So the Canucks gave up those assets for faceoffs and defensive play? Ok. Well, they didn't give up a whole lot, so sure. I'm fine with it.......Malhotra was a pretty key player in the 2011 run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 minute ago, stawns said: All of all those players, pulock is probably the only real comparable and his cap hit is $6.15m. the other two have several seasons of mid to high 30's in points. Pulock also signed that deal when he was 27, in the prime of his career, not 30. I’m guessing Hronek’s camp is using Toews as a comparable. A complimentary dmen who has allowed Makar to flourish much like Hronek has helped Hughes have his most offensive season to date. Toews just signed an extension for $7.25m per year after a RFA contract of $4.1m per year. Don’t get me wrong, I’d prefer Toews but I can’t fault Hronek’s camp for trying to get $6.5m - 7’ish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanofvan Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 minutes ago, stawns said: Well, they didn't give up a whole lot, so sure. I'm fine with it.......Malhotra was a pretty key player in the 2011 run If you say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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