[REPORT] Canucks make contract offer to Filip Hronek

[stawns]

13 minutes ago, Dizzle said:

Hronek is career .53 ppg

Severson is career .41 ppg. 
 

they’ve had some seasons that had similar production, but hronek has been far more productive, more consistently in his shorter career. 

 

46 points in 20-21 when he was, basically, the same age as Hronek.........I don't think that has aged well.  Theres a lesson for Van there, imo

[ArmchairGM22]

26 minutes ago, Dizzle said:

Hronek is career .53 ppg

Severson is career .41 ppg. 
 

they’ve had some seasons that had similar production, but hronek has been far more productive, more consistently in his shorter career. 

Hronek has played about 1/2 the games in the NHL as severson

 

my bad on the stats / ppg error for sure. I’ll own that 

 

But He’s proven it over a longer Period 

he also didn’t get pity points from passing it to Hughes 

 

https://moneypuck.com/player.htm?p=8479425

Edited June 13 by ArmchairGM22

[Dizzle]

Just now, ArmchairGM22 said:

Hronek has played about 1/2 the games in the NHL as severson

 

He’s proven it over a longer Period 

he also didn’t get pity points from passing it to Hughes 

this is moving the goal posts though. You claimed clone production between the two and that simply isn’t the case. 

[ArmchairGM22]

24 minutes ago, Dizzle said:

this is moving the goal posts though. You claimed clone production between the two and that simply isn’t the case. 

Go take a look at the defensman making 8 mil in the league 

 

then tell me Hronek is in that class, other than a few who are clearly overpaid 

go look 

[DrJockitch]

12 minutes ago, ArmchairGM22 said:

Go take a look at the defensman making 8 mil in the league 

 

then tell me Hronek is in that class, other than a few who are clearly overpaid 

go look 

Will save him the trouble.  Hughes and Hedman are the best deals on there.

 

Rank	Player	Team	Compensation
1	Erik Karlsson	Pittsburgh Penguins	$11.5 million
T-2	Rasmus Dahlin	Buffalo Sabres	$11 million
T-2	Drew Doughty	Los Angeles Kings	$11 million
4	Zachary Werenski	Columbus Blue Jackets	$9.58 million
T-5	Charles Mcavoy	Boston Bruins	$9.5 million
T-5	Seth Jones	Chicago Blackhawks	$9.5 million
T-5	Adam Fox	New York Rangers	$9.5 million
8	Darnell Nurse	Edmonton Oilers	$9.25 million
9	Roman Josi	Nashville Predators	$9.06 million
T-10	Cale Makar	Colorado Avalanche	$9 million
T-10	Dougie Hamilton	New Jersey Devils	$9 million
12	Alex Pietrangelo	Vegas Golden Knights	$8.8 million
13	Mikhail Sergachev	Tampa Bay Lightning	$8.5 million
14	Miro Heiskanen	Dallas Stars	$8.45 million
15	Owen Power	Buffalo Sabres	$8.35 million
T-16	Brent Burns	Carolina Hurricanes	$8 million
T-16	Jacob Trouba	New York Rangers	$8 million
T-16	Jake Sanderson	Ottawa Senators	$8 million
T-16	Thomas Chabot	Ottawa Senators	$8 million
T-16	John Carlson	Washington Capitals	$8 million
21	Victor Hedman	Tampa Bay Lightning	$7.88 million
22	Shea Weber	Arizona Coyotes	$7.86 million
23	Quinn Hughes	Vancouver Canucks	$7.85 million

Edited June 13 by DrJockitch

[The Duke]

3 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

He logs a lot of minutes. That's important to that pairing. the real value, imo, is the success of the pair. Especially with their best yet to come. That dollar figure - even at $7.5 could look really great if they're tearing up the league together in their prime.

Chatfield going for a 3x3 makes anything under 8 for Hronek pretty easy to accept for me.

[Dizzle]

1 hour ago, ArmchairGM22 said:

Go take a look at the defensman making 8 mil in the league 

 

then tell me Hronek is in that class, other than a few who are clearly overpaid 

go look 

again. Moving the fence posts. You compared him to severson based on clone production. That argument was false. Thats all I pointed out. 

[Dizzle]

58 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Will save him the trouble.  Hughes and Hedman are the best deals on there.

 

Rank	Player	Team	Compensation
1	Erik Karlsson	Pittsburgh Penguins	$11.5 million
T-2	Rasmus Dahlin	Buffalo Sabres	$11 million
T-2	Drew Doughty	Los Angeles Kings	$11 million
4	Zachary Werenski	Columbus Blue Jackets	$9.58 million
T-5	Charles Mcavoy	Boston Bruins	$9.5 million
T-5	Seth Jones	Chicago Blackhawks	$9.5 million
T-5	Adam Fox	New York Rangers	$9.5 million
8	Darnell Nurse	Edmonton Oilers	$9.25 million
9	Roman Josi	Nashville Predators	$9.06 million
T-10	Cale Makar	Colorado Avalanche	$9 million
T-10	Dougie Hamilton	New Jersey Devils	$9 million
12	Alex Pietrangelo	Vegas Golden Knights	$8.8 million
13	Mikhail Sergachev	Tampa Bay Lightning	$8.5 million
14	Miro Heiskanen	Dallas Stars	$8.45 million
15	Owen Power	Buffalo Sabres	$8.35 million
T-16	Brent Burns	Carolina Hurricanes	$8 million
T-16	Jacob Trouba	New York Rangers	$8 million
T-16	Jake Sanderson	Ottawa Senators	$8 million
T-16	Thomas Chabot	Ottawa Senators	$8 million
T-16	John Carlson	Washington Capitals	$8 million
21	Victor Hedman	Tampa Bay Lightning	$7.88 million
22	Shea Weber	Arizona Coyotes	$7.86 million
23	Quinn Hughes	Vancouver Canucks	$7.85 million

The poster you quoted originally suggested Hronek should get 6.25. There’s a lot of country between 6.25 and 8. I never suggested any number for Hronek’s contract, I just pointed out the reasoning for saying he should be at 6.25 was flawed. 

my guess is he will likely sign somewhere around the Noah Hanifin number. 

[VegasCanuck]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

In fairness to what actually happens behind closed doors, it's pretty obvious that agents, players, and teams talk before July 1st.  If it truly was a hands off approach until the UFA season opens, then we clearly wouldn't see players signing deals within minutes of the UFA market opening.  It couldn't possibly be the case that these guys decide on millions of dollars in deals and sign them all within literally minutes of one another, committing $100s of millions of dollars to contracts with pay structures, length of deals, bonuses if applicable, NMC/NTC/etc for which years of the deal, etc etc.  There's WAY too much determined, WAY too quickly for there to not have been discussions beforehand behind closed doors.

Yes, the day after the draft, teams are allowed to talk and communicate with pending UFA's. Before that, it's called tampering and doing it without another teams permission results in lost draft picks.

 

 

[HKSR]

7 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Yes, the day after the draft, teams are allowed to talk and communicate with pending UFA's. Before that, it's called tampering and doing it without another teams permission results in lost draft picks.

 

 

That makes sense.  Still think a lot of talking happens behind closed doors though.  Makes sense that trades happen at the draft knowing what is coming their way in free agency.

[DrJockitch]

12 minutes ago, Dizzle said:

The poster you quoted originally suggested Hronek should get 6.25. There’s a lot of country between 6.25 and 8. I never suggested any number for Hronek’s contract, I just pointed out the reasoning for saying he should be at 6.25 was flawed. 

my guess is he will likely sign somewhere around the Noah Hanifin number. 

Hanifin seems like about the best comparable signed in last few year.
Personally I would put him just below Hanifin.

Agent seems to be shooting for the moon which is their job. 

[VegasCanuck]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

That makes sense.  Still think a lot of talking happens behind closed doors though.  Makes sense that trades happen at the draft knowing what is coming their way in free agency.

Normally, the way it works is, if a team is interested in a player on another team and they don't think that team is able or interested in resigning that player, they approach the team and ask permission. If permission is granted it is usually with an understanding that if they can reach an agreement on a contract, they do a trade for rights.

 

This is what's going on right now with Guentzel. Carolina is looking to recover some type of asset in exchange for granting another team exclusive negotiation rights for the next couple of weeks. If the Canucks aren't going to be able to sign Lindholm, look for them to try and do something similar, probably with Boston. If Detroit is looking even remotely at Joshua, would be the same conditions. Until the day after the draft, to even leak that you're willing to throw a specific amount at a player will cost you picks.

 

That doesn't stop a player from saying, "Hey, I'm done here, I'd really like to play for these guys..." but that rarely happens publicly and agents aren't going to actively go behind a teams back as it undermines their own credibility with the rest of the GM's around the league. They all want to know that an agent will respect the terms of contracts and that they will negotiate above board and in good faith.

 

[HKSR]

6 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Hanifin seems like about the best comparable signed in last few year.
Personally I would put him just below Hanifin.

Agent seems to be shooting for the moon which is their job. 

$7.25M would be perfect for both sides I think.

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, VegasCanuck said:

Normally, the way it works is, if a team is interested in a player on another team and they don't think that team is able or interested in resigning that player, they approach the team and ask permission. If permission is granted it is usually with an understanding that if they can reach an agreement on a contract, they do a trade for rights.

 

This is what's going on right now with Guentzel. Carolina is looking to recover some type of asset in exchange for granting another team exclusive negotiation rights for the next couple of weeks. If the Canucks aren't going to be able to sign Lindholm, look for them to try and do something similar, probably with Boston. If Detroit is looking even remotely at Joshua, would be the same conditions. Until the day after the draft, to even leak that you're willing to throw a specific amount at a player will cost you picks.

 

That doesn't stop a player from saying, "Hey, I'm done here, I'd really like to play for these guys..." but that rarely happens publicly and agents aren't going to actively go behind a teams back as it undermines their own credibility with the rest of the GM's around the league. They all want to know that an agent will respect the terms of contracts and that they will negotiate above board and in good faith.

 

Landing negotiation rights generally means rights to the player... which translates to 8 year deals being on the table.  I think that's the bonus factor of trading for rights.

[VegasCanuck]

13 minutes ago, HKSR said:

That makes sense.  Still think a lot of talking happens behind closed doors though.  Makes sense that trades happen at the draft knowing what is coming their way in free agency.

Just as a follow up, this is what happened to the Canucks when Benning, years ago at the draft speculated that he'd be interested in Stamkos and Subban. This wasn't even talking about numbers or reaching out to the players directly, just idle comments.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/nhl-jim-benning-canucks-fine-1.3656322#:~:text=The NHL has slapped the,under contract to other teams.

 

[VegasCanuck]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

Landing negotiation rights generally means rights to the player... which translates to 8 year deals being on the table.  I think that's the bonus factor of trading for rights.

Makes sense for both teams if the player's a fit. I would totally give up a mid round pick as suggested Carolina is asking for in exchange for Guentzel's negotiating rights. If there's a deal to done where we could acquire him and secure a contract by being able to offer him 8 years instead of 7 in free agency, the odds of getting a player who is even 1/2 of what Guentzel represents from a 4th or 5th round pick in the draft is like 100 to 1 or worse.

 

Game on!

 

[ArmchairGM22]

35 minutes ago, Dizzle said:

again. Moving the fence posts. You compared him to severson based on clone production. That argument was false. Thats all I pointed out. 

Actually the point is he’s not worth more than 6.75 and certainly not worth 8. Isn’t that the debate on resigning??? The dollar value? 

so I’m giving you MORE reasons irrespective of the ppg issue 

 

but carry on 

Edited June 13 by ArmchairGM22

[HKSR]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

 

46 points in 20-21 when he was, basically, the same age as Hronek.........I don't think that has aged well.  Theres a lesson for Van there, imo

Severson had 46 points in 2021-22 (the season he was 27 years old).

 

He was born Aug 7 1994, which means he was 26yo as of Aug 7 2020 (before the 2020-21 season). 

 

In 2020-21, Severson had 3 goals and 21 points in 56 games. 

 

By the end of each of their 26yo seasons:

 

Severson played 486 games and had 184 points = 0.37 PPG

Hronek played 390 games and had 205 points = 0.53 PPG

 

Not the best comparable IMO .... or if you're comparing, then Hronek would be worth more than Severson at the same age. 

 

[The Duke]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

Will save him the trouble.  Hughes and Hedman are the best deals on there.

 

Rank	Player	Team	Compensation
1	Erik Karlsson	Pittsburgh Penguins	$11.5 million
T-2	Rasmus Dahlin	Buffalo Sabres	$11 million
T-2	Drew Doughty	Los Angeles Kings	$11 million
4	Zachary Werenski	Columbus Blue Jackets	$9.58 million
T-5	Charles Mcavoy	Boston Bruins	$9.5 million
T-5	Seth Jones	Chicago Blackhawks	$9.5 million
T-5	Adam Fox	New York Rangers	$9.5 million
8	Darnell Nurse	Edmonton Oilers	$9.25 million
9	Roman Josi	Nashville Predators	$9.06 million
T-10	Cale Makar	Colorado Avalanche	$9 million
T-10	Dougie Hamilton	New Jersey Devils	$9 million
12	Alex Pietrangelo	Vegas Golden Knights	$8.8 million
13	Mikhail Sergachev	Tampa Bay Lightning	$8.5 million
14	Miro Heiskanen	Dallas Stars	$8.45 million
15	Owen Power	Buffalo Sabres	$8.35 million
T-16	Brent Burns	Carolina Hurricanes	$8 million
T-16	Jacob Trouba	New York Rangers	$8 million
T-16	Jake Sanderson	Ottawa Senators	$8 million
T-16	Thomas Chabot	Ottawa Senators	$8 million
T-16	John Carlson	Washington Capitals	$8 million
21	Victor Hedman	Tampa Bay Lightning	$7.88 million
22	Shea Weber	Arizona Coyotes	$7.86 million
23	Quinn Hughes	Vancouver Canucks	$7.85 million

Not directed at you, but we can’t compare Hronek’s contract this summer - with the cap going up, likely in a hurry - against deals signed in the past.  Chatfield landed a 3x3 and he’s a 15 minute a night low point man.
 

It’s also a simple issue of resource scarcity - Hronek’s age and production as an RHD isn’t available in free agency.  Going long on him carries a lot less risk than the other names out there - and whatever he signs for will look better each year the cap goes up. We know he can caddy Hughes to a Norris season.  
 

I don’t love the idea of going 7.5-8 on Hronek - he’s probably not adding a ton of value cap wise at that number - but he’s also a pretty safe bet to return that value as well.
 

And the alternative still presents a lot of risk.  I’d expect JR/PA to look at the options, but the bird in hand might still be the best bet. 

[Dizzle]

30 minutes ago, ArmchairGM22 said:

Actually the point is he’s not worth more than 6.75 and certainly not worth 8. Isn’t that the debate on resigning??? The dollar value? 

so I’m giving you MORE reasons irrespective of the ppg issue 

 

but carry on 

once again you said he had clone production to severson. You were very wrong. I pointed it out. 

 

[ArmchairGM22]

11 minutes ago, Dizzle said:

once again you said he had clone production to severson. You were very wrong. I pointed it out. 

 

Once again, I said I erred. The FIRST specific point was incorrect

 

the next one's backed up my point

 

people who can think about big picture things, vs trying to argue for the sake of it, can see the big picture debate is about his worth / aav

 

The debate is, is he worth 8 mil or not

 

he's not

 

Good lord

 

 

Edited June 13 by ArmchairGM22

[Dizzle]

3 minutes ago, ArmchairGM22 said:

Once again, I said I erred. The FIRST specific point was incorrect

 

the next one's backed up my point

 

people who can think about big picture things, vs trying to argue for the sake of it, can see the big picture debate is about his worth / aav

 

The debate is, is he worth 8 mil or not

 

he's not

 

Good lord

 

 

when did the argument become whether he was worth 8? All I did was point out the error in the comparison. That’s a long jump from 6.25 to 8. 
 

By my estimation he’s worth somewhere in the 7-7.5 range. Thats based off of Devon Toews and Noah Hanifin. Perhaps he signs for a little less… I certainly wouldn’t pay him any more. 

[stawns]

51 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Severson had 46 points in 2021-22 (the season he was 27 years old).

 

He was born Aug 7 1994, which means he was 26yo as of Aug 7 2020 (before the 2020-21 season). 

 

In 2020-21, Severson had 3 goals and 21 points in 56 games. 

 

By the end of each of their 26yo seasons:

 

Severson played 486 games and had 184 points = 0.37 PPG

Hronek played 390 games and had 205 points = 0.53 PPG

 

Not the best comparable IMO .... or if you're comparing, then Hronek would be worth more than Severson at the same age. 

 

 

I wasn't comparing them beyond both of them wanting a big contract based on one good year (in Hronrks case, a good half year) and that it didn't age well for DS.

 

The Canucks can take a lesson from that, imo

Edited June 13 by stawns

[stawns]

12 minutes ago, Dizzle said:

when did the argument become whether he was worth 8? All I did was point out the error in the comparison. That’s a long jump from 6.25 to 8. 
 

By my estimation he’s worth somewhere in the 7-7.5 range. Thats based off of Devon Toews and Noah Hanifin. Perhaps he signs for a little less… I certainly wouldn’t pay him any more. 

 

He's nowhere near the level of player that Toews or Hanifan is, imo

Edited June 13 by stawns

[Baratheon]

Contracts are going to change now that the cap is going up.  It makes it tricky to use comparables.  Some posters are almost guaranteed to be upset at the contracts this year because they have outdated numbers in their minds.