[REPORT] Canucks make contract offer to Filip Hronek

[ArmchairGM22]

Just now, stawns said:

 

Not to mention, I'm skeptical of players who made careers riding shotgun to elite, generational players.

He did quite well in Carolina in the reg season and playoffs. Short sample size but he was driving play and putting up similar numbers without Sid

[Dr. Crossbar]

On 6/13/2024 at 4:45 PM, Dizzle said:

Therein may lie the hold up. His numbers are better than hanifin’s so he likely wants what he got or more, but hanifin is - I think anyways - the better overall player. 

 

It's interesting that he finished right behind Toews in points for defensemen.  

[rmok]

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

There's also Boes' contract, Hughes contract, demko's contract, lek's development and OEL's huge buyout penalty to consider in the next 2-3 years.  

 

A huge, long term deal for JG makes all of those much more difficult to manage.  To me, JG doesn't make sense........hopefully PA feels the same

Brock Boeser can not be given a long term contract. He had a great comeback year... but other than his rookie year its his ONLY really good year and he still ended up being unavailable for the biggest game of the year and his career.

 

He will be 28 mid next year.. you can't sign him to a long term retirement contract with a raise. I'm not necessarily in favor of JG signing.. but he has waaaaay more consistency in his game year after year than Boeser does and I'd rather have JG at 9 than BB at 7.5 or 8 .. or more.. going forward into their 30's. 

 

As much as I like the guy selling high on Brock this off season rather than extending him would likely be the prudent move and would free up almost 7 million to go for a legitimate and reliable long term fit. 

[tas]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Not to mention, I'm skeptical of players who made careers riding shotgun to elite, generational players.

25 points in 17 games in carolina. 

Edited June 16 by tas

[Dr. Crossbar]

On 6/13/2024 at 7:53 AM, DeNiro said:

I would almost guarantee that if Hronek was traded they would have another trade lined up to flip those returns. Similar to the Horvat trade.

 

 

 

Agree. We're not waiting 5-6 years. 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, ArmchairGM22 said:

Fair argument. Laine is lower risk financially for sure, but higher risk in terms of his compete and physical preparation as he seems quite brittlr

over his career. 
 

Necas will cost us too much of our future and Kotkaniemi is a 3c who’s overpaid, so he doesn’t solve our top 6 problem. 
 

Would I be upset if we got Laine instead of Guentzel, no. But I’d be prepared for him to only play 45 games and would be worried about his attitude.

 

Kotkaniemi is also 23, turning 24.  He's turning into a solid 3C, with lots of potential to become a 2C.  He had an off year, but a solid 18 goal, 43 points year as a 22 year old.  To me, he's the kind of player who would thrive in RT's systrm

 

He would be cheap to get and you likely get a sweetener with him as well, especially if he's part of a package for hronek.  And while he seems "overpaid" coming off an off year, he's cost controlled and could easily be "underpaid" for years to come 

 

They have cap space, they should be "weaponizing" it.

[-dlc-]

17 minutes ago, rmok said:

Brock Boeser can not be given a long term contract. He had a great comeback year... but other than his rookie year its his ONLY really good year and he still ended up being unavailable for the biggest game of the year and his career.

 

He will be 28 mid next year.. you can't sign him to a long term retirement contract with a raise. I'm not necessarily in favor of JG signing.. but he has waaaaay more consistency in his game year after year than Boeser does and I'd rather have JG at 9 than BB at 7.5 or 8 .. or more.. going forward into their 30's. 

 

As much as I like the guy selling high on Brock this off season rather than extending him would likely be the prudent move and would free up almost 7 million to go for a legitimate and reliable long term fit. 

Guentzel is also nearly 3 years older than Brock. Plus consider who he's had to play alongside with (I'm not really sure of this as I haven't followed his path much). More matters than what is shown on the stat sheet...you have to delve further into it.

 

You have to consider what Brock was dealing with that really were legitimate reasons to struggle. Not only his Dad's declining health, but his own back injury that likely lingered.

 

I'd rather have Brock. He's developing some undeniable chemistry with JT and that also has to be considered. Not every player you move in with be a "fit" and I'd hate to disrupt this team too much as we've seen the steps they're taking together.

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, rmok said:

Brock Boeser can not be given a long term contract. He had a great comeback year... but other than his rookie year its his ONLY really good year and he still ended up being unavailable for the biggest game of the year and his career.

 

He will be 28 mid next year.. you can't sign him to a long term retirement contract with a raise. I'm not necessarily in favor of JG signing.. but he has waaaaay more consistency in his game year after year than Boeser does and I'd rather have JG at 9 than BB at 7.5 or 8 .. or more.. going forward into their 30's. 

 

As much as I like the guy selling high on Brock this off season rather than extending him would likely be the prudent move and would free up almost 7 million to go for a legitimate and reliable long term fit. 

 

I like BB as a person, but not a huge fan of his game, though he is growing his all around game.  I'd be fine moving off from him, but I still don't think it's a good idea giving a 30 year old, who played with Crosby for his entire career, a massive, long term deal

[ArmchairGM22]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Kotkaniemi is also 23, turning 24.  He's turning into a solid 3C, with lots of potential to become a 2C.  He had an off year, but a solid 18 goal, 43 points year as a 22 year old.  To me, he's the kind of player who would thrive in RT's systrm

 

He would be cheap to get and you likely get a sweetener with him as well, especially if he's part of a package for hronek.  And while he seems "overpaid" coming off an off year, he's cost controlled and could easily be "underpaid" for years to come 

 

They have cap space, they should be "weaponizing" it.

Not against Kotkaniemi if there’s retention or a sweetener but my point was its not a replacement for what Guentzel brings, and we need that 

[Dr. Crossbar]

On 6/12/2024 at 11:55 AM, The Duke said:

What are the deadlines on Hronek vs Free agency?  Would be nice if management knew their options as a Hronek trade isn’t going to return a top pair RD. 
 

I still think it gets done. Going 7.5 or whatever on Hronek will be fine so long as he’s stapled to Hughes.  Maybe not a bargain, but we’ll get our moneys worth as he puts up 50-ish points playing 24 min a night.

 

Also just to add ... the real core value is in that pairing. Especially with both being even better in their prime together. Could be really good value at $7.5 in the long run. Hoping it gets done and for a reasonable figure. 

[German Canuck]

23 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I do, to a degree.  I also think they weren't here and don't understand the misery of the last decade following the last time a GM went for it and missed.  MG left the franchise in a very tough place with very very few paths out of the wilderness.

 

I don't want to see this group makes moves for now without thinking about the future.

They have to think about the future of course but you cant win the cup if you decide to be an ok team.

In cap era you have to build a window and decide if the team team is ready.

I think this window is now because its not save that Hughes will be here in four years and Miller produce at the same level as now.

That are two question marks in our core and thats the reason why i think they have to go for the cup in the next 2-3 years.

The cup is the ultimate goal and not to be an ok team like i said.

In my opinion Guentzel is a missing peace to take the next step.

Edited June 16 by German Canuck

[stawns]

1 minute ago, ArmchairGM22 said:

Not against Kotkaniemi if there’s retention or a sweetener but my point was its not a replacement for what Guentzel brings, and we need that 

 

He's not, but they also need a 3C.  Ultimately, they can't solve every issue this off season, they need to have a longer range plan.  

 

Maybe they focus on the dcorp and 3C and a stop gap in the top 6.  They do live or die on a defensive system.  Garland, imo, is player who should get a shot in the top 6.........not a taste and then pug back on the third line, but a season where he can have time to build chemistry.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, German Canuck said:

They have to think about the future of course but you cant win the cup if you decide to be an ok team.

In cap area you have to build a window and decide if the team team is ready.

I think this window is now because its not save that Hughes will be here in four years and Miller produce at the same level as now.

That are two question marks in our core and thats the reason why i think they have to go for the cup in the next 2-3 years.

The cup is the ultimate goal and to to be an ok team like i said.

In my opinion Guentzel is a missing peace to take the next step.

 

Definitely that's not the goal, but I think it's also a process and trying to get it all done in one off season is a very risky way to approach.

 

I still don't see them being a true Cup contender for a few years

[Dr. Crossbar]

On 6/9/2024 at 12:48 PM, BC_Hawk said:

That’ll just be another 2-3more years of worrying about RHD, and over playing depth guys. People need to remember how desperate we were for a top4 RHD. We have him now…just going through the paces of signing an RFA to a big contract.

 

i do like the idea of finding short term solutions to the RHD spot, but not on your top guy. Myers and Juulsen will fill that job great. I’d even try to resign Cole at vet min for 2 years to split time with Juulsen. If Willander or Petterson show they belong, thats a great problem to have; two vet RHD (one that can play both sides) that are buryable if required.

 

Again, spot on! Especially about back to square one on the RHD. That's foolish. We have the known and what those same people wanted. No need to keep searching for the unknown. 

 

Agree about short term RHD solutions. Those young guys are still 2-3 years away at best. 

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

He's not, but they also need a 3C.  Ultimately, they can't solve every issue this off season, they need to have a longer range plan.  

 

Maybe they focus on the dcorp and 3C and a stop gap in the top 6.  They do live or die on a defensive system.  Garland, imo, is player who should get a shot in the top 6.........not a taste and then pug back on the third line, but a season where he can have time to build chemistry.

Garland has had a year and half with this coaching staff to be a top six winger. He’s not that level of player on our club. He might be on a weaker team, and we need his cap space. That’s why PA is rumoured to be actively trying to move off him. 

[German Canuck]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Definitely that's not the goal, but I think it's also a process and trying to get it all done in one off season is a very risky way to approach.

 

I still don't see them being a true Cup contender for a few years

Thats not the goal? Ok

 

Thats the second offseason to build something and they did a great offseason last year.

 

The canucks were only one game away from the Conference Final and this without the Nr. 1 Goalie.

Thats not a contender?

 

Ok but in a few years without Miller in his prime and maybe without Hughes it will be much harder to be a contender.

Edited June 16 by German Canuck

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Definitely that's not the goal, but I think it's also a process and trying to get it all done in one off season is a very risky way to approach.

 

I still don't see them being a true Cup contender for a few years

Then the Coilers aren’t a real contender either because we would have dispatched them with Demko. 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, German Canuck said:

Thats not the goal? Ok

 

Thats the second offseason to build something and they did a great offseason last year.

 

The canucks were only one game away from the Conference Final and this without the Nr. 1 Goalie.

Thats not a contender?

 

Ok but in a few years without Miller in his prime and maybe without Hughes it will be much harder to be a contender.

 

I don't consider them a serious contender yet, no.  They got within one game, but they got seriously outplayed for parts of round 1 and most of round 2.  They've got definite things they have to fix 

 

I was agreeing with you that being "ok" isn't the goal 

 

It is the second year, but the roster is going through a major shift this off season and I expect a somewhat significant step back next, at least in the reg season 

[German Canuck]

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I don't consider them a serious contender yet, no.  They got within one game, but they got seriously outplayed for parts of round 1 and most of round 2.  They've got definite things they have to fix 

 

I was agreeing with you that being "ok" isn't the goal 

 

It is the second year, but the roster is going through a major shift this off season and I expect a somewhat significant step back next, at least in the reg season 

If you dont want to be better next season its clear that they step back next season but i think thats not what this management want.

So they are trying find some missing peaces like a legit top 6 winger to take the next step.

This management and coaching stuff is build with winners and step backs are not acceptable for all of them.

Thats the reason why i am so confident in this group.

 

What do you think they are missing to be a real contender?

Edited June 16 by German Canuck

[Devron]

[Dr. Crossbar]

 

31 minutes ago, German Canuck said:

Thats not the goal? Ok

 

Thats the second offseason to build something and they did a great offseason last year.

 

The canucks were only one game away from the Conference Final and this without the Nr. 1 Goalie.

Thats not a contender?

 

Ok but in a few years without Miller in his prime and maybe without Hughes it will be much harder to be a contender.

 

It's interesting how we're always a "few years" away from being a contender. People were saying that every year when we were god awful. And now people still say it when we're good.

 

We could turn this team around, be atop the league all season, and come within a game of the western conference finals, and people still wouldn't see us as contenders. 

 

It's like the endless rebuild discussion. 

There's never an end point. In this case, never an end point when we're good or contending. Always a "few years" away. Circular thinking. That's how people are "always" right. 

 

 

Edited June 16 by Dr. Crossbar

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, German Canuck said:

If you dont want to be better next season its clear that they step back next season but i think thats not what this management want.

So they are trying find some missing peaces like a legit top 6 winger to take the next step.

This management and coaching stuff is build with winners and step backs are not acceptable for all of them.

Thats the reason why i am so confident in this group.

 

What do you think they are missing to be a real contender?

 

They need more balance in the lineup, imo, and especially the special teams.  Depth and a more balanced lineup is what makes teams successful these days and that means not being top heavy, imo.  

 

They need to change their pp up and maybe split up the top unit so that you've got two units that can contribute.  They also need more upper level pk players.  They also really need to add quality players into their development system so that they can have high level depth for when injuries occur and they can replace aging players and still stay competitive.

 

They need more offense, I agree, but a massive, long term deal for a 30 year old Guentzal isn't how you go about, imo.  I think they need to think out of the box and use their cap space to take advantage of teams situations.

 

Ultimately, I think they're a few years from truly contending because that's, generally, how long it takes teams to get to the top of the mountain. 

 

Winning a Cup, to me, is much more about failing and re-adjusting several times before you get it just right, than it is taking a shot in a short window.  

[smithers joe]

13 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

They need more balance in the lineup, imo, and especially the special teams.  Depth and a more balanced lineup is what makes teams successful these days and that means not being top heavy, imo.  

 

They need to change their pp up and maybe split up the top unit so that you've got two units that can contribute.  They also need more upper level pk players.  They also really need to add quality players into their development system so that they can have high level depth for when injuries occur and they can replace aging players and still stay competitive.

 

They need more offense, I agree, but a massive, long term deal for a 30 year old Guentzal isn't how you go about, imo.  I think they need to think out of the box and use their cap space to take advantage of teams situations.

 

Ultimately, I think they're a few years from truly contending because that's, generally, how long it takes teams to get to the top of the mountain. 

 

Winning a Cup, to me, is much more about failing and re-adjusting several times before you get it just right, than it is taking a shot in a short window.  

i agree with most of what you say but what does that look like and are you ready to stand behind your choices?

[stawns]

14 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

i agree with most of what you say but what does that look like and are you ready to stand behind your choices?

 

Well, I don't get to make decisions, so I have no issues standing behind them!

 

 

 

All kidding aside, the chances of them winning a Cup are very small and even smaller in a short window.  I think their best bet is doing what they can for the now, without tanking the future.

 

They need to build their prospect cupboard as much as they need to find top players for their current lineup.  They're clearly not going to get those prospects via the draft, so they need to get them other ways, like using their cap space 

 

I want a team thats going to be a playoff team for the next decade, not the next few years.

Edited June 16 by stawns

[German Canuck]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Well, I don't get to make decisions, so I have no issues standing behind them!

 

 

 

All kidding aside, the chances of them winning a Cup are very small and even smaller in a short window.  I think their best bet is doing what they can for the now, without tanking the future.

 

They need to build their prospect cupboard as much as they need to find top players for their current lineup.  They're clearly not going to get those prospects via the draft, so they need to get them other ways, like using their cap space 

 

I want a team thats going to be a playoff team for the next decade, not the next few years.

How do you explain this to the core players?

They have enough of losing and want to win and go far in the playoffs.

What you want is a retool and i think we had enough of this shit years.

Now and after this great season its time to go for it and not to wait another 4, 5 or 6 years to make the playoffs and win one or two rounds