[PGT] Jets at Canucks

[Barnstorm]

Also worth mentioning that it appears only JR had the gumption and insight to insist that FA step back and let him do the job. 
 

It’s thought FA was meddling for years. 
 

 

[NoCupSyndrome]

6 hours ago, CanuckMan said:

Is 32 points what’s expected from a 2nd line player? Because he’s never scored more than that so not sure what’s meant by him usually scoring at a second line rate. Usually when you think 1st line players you’re thinking players close to a point per game or PPG or more. Second line players are usually in the 50-60 point range. His production has always been a third line players. 25-30 points

 

Games played - three of the four seasons before this season he was around 0.6 points per game. Until Feb, he was close to that again but his production has cratered since then. Hopefully he is getting back into form and can get back to that 0.6 points per game level for the playoffs. 

 

 

[NoCupSyndrome]

6 hours ago, Barn Burner said:

After the trade deadline, a team can carry as many players as they want, as long as they are under the salary cap. 

 

OK so with DJ only on IR they are under the cap and technically they won't have to send anyone down. 

[Redhdlois]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

Benning gets credit for Hughes and Miller. He was forced to pick Petey and and Demko was the scouts. Then Benning went about messing up the cap and not being able to build out the roster as a result. New management builds around the existing core in a year and a half and makes one of the top clubs in the league. 
Benning was (still is) a moran. 

[NoCupSyndrome]

5 hours ago, Kragar said:

Yeah, I wasn't considering waivers... more so which of them would be the 13th forward. If we need the roster space, it seems to be a no-brainer call to send Podz down.

 

Looks like they might not have to send anyone down when DJ comes back - likely under the cap and no restrictions on contracts at the NHL level after the TDL. Would open up options for sure

[Ballisticsports]

54 minutes ago, CanuckDownUnder said:

 

Sounds familiar. I wear a brace now just in case as re-injury would cause more damage than the first time apparently.

I had a special brace made up myself, I never wear it now, and I don't recall being told that info about re-injury

[CanuckMan]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

 

Doesn't bother me at all

Did Loui Erikson bother you at 6M? He was good defensively too. Just never lived up to his contract. Only a difference of 1M between them

[AnthonyG]

30 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

VGK won it all in 6 years. Previous to that they were highly competitive including divisional and conference wins.
 

Hard to blame people for bashing Benning. This fanbase is dedicated and has been success  starved for  so long. It wouldn’t matter who was running the show at that time. High hopes for young stars without support will bring criticism. 
 

The new management has said they inherited some difficult situations hindering progress. I accept their judgement that both good and bad came from the previous group. 
 

Lastly, I believe Jim Benning was not going to get us over the hump no matter how much time he was given. The players were completely flummoxed by the coaching changes and inadequacies, personnel upheavals and money poorly spent. The players aren’t naive. They know when things aren’t right and their play reflects it. 

 

When you work under mediocre management you deliver mediocre results. That’s why so many teams struggle year in and year out for decades. Good management is uncommon, mediocre is everywhere. 
 

Our new management gained valuable experience and skills while in Pa. As a result they are moving towards the cup quicker than most or would typically be expected. 
 

Bottom line , there was no hope, now there is. 

VGK got to hand pick NHL players, were given draft odd priveleges and were able to make deals to take unwanted players. To compare the two is unrelated. One was built through the entry draft which takes time to acquire talent and develop talent. The other through an expansion draft where players were already developed.

New management also stated at the end of 2021-22, missing playoffs for 2022-23 would be a complete failure. They firmly believed in that roster. They also backed that up by keeping everyone and then adding to the roster, yet it fell short because of injury and poor goaltending. 

 

To say there was no hope, is a shot at Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Miller and Boeser. These guys are the reason why there is hope for a cup.

[CanuckMan]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Mikheyev had 21 goals and 32 points in only 53 games.  That was a pace for 32 goals and 50 points.  A 32 goal pace is definitely top 6 material...

Pace is great. Pace is used a lot around here. Fact of the matter is he got injured that year too? Pace doesn’t help if you continue to keep injured. What matters is  what you actually get not what you hypothetically could have gotten. 

[PureQuickness]

22 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

I can understand how they looked flatter and flatter as the Canucks just scored more goals. Eventually, it was game over. Can't blame the players for just moving on from this game, throw it in the trash, and looking forward to the next game. But gotta give credit where credit's due. The Canucks are playing some fine hockey right now against some pretty stiff and physically large teams. 

 

Yes, I'm giving credit where it's due. Demko was HUGE. A shoutout to DeSmith too. Hoglander is a friggin beast.

[PureQuickness]

15 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

VGK got to hand pick NHL players, were given draft odd priveleges and were able to make deals to take unwanted players. To compare the two is unrelated. One was built through the entry draft which takes time to acquire talent and develop talent. The other through an expansion draft where players were already developed.

New management also stated at the end of 2021-22, missing playoffs for 2022-23 would be a complete failure. They firmly believed in that roster. They also backed that up by keeping everyone and then adding to the roster, yet it fell short because of injury and poor goaltending. 

 

To say there was no hope, is a shot at Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Miller and Boeser. These guys are the reason why there is hope for a cup.

 

I've mentioned this before, but it's pretty telling what was inherited after Gillis and Benning. The one after Gillis got the bag of shit. No prospects in the cupboard, as a result of POOR drafting over the years by the predecessor.  And while Benning wasn't perfect (far from it), there was AT LEAST a baseline to work with. Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes, Hoglander (great pick) and Demko (also a great pick).

 

Benning's worst move besides the Forsling/Clendenning trade? It's not the OEL one. It's re-signing Travis Green. I usually tolerate management if they're underperforming a bit, but as time passes by, Green was a TERRIBLE coach. Benning possibly could've done better with more of his picks if he wasn't stonewalled by a poor developing coach who lacks any creative strategies besides line juggling. And the excessive amount of "too many men" penalties isn't due to the players; it's on the coach.

 

New management did really well though with their pro scouting, drafting (too early to say, but promising so far!), and their trades (for the most part). Benning couldn't put it ALL together, but this team is finally running on all cylinders (for now). Lindholm trade is not looking too good at this point, but hopefully he improves. Mikheyev signing is also not great either, but I'm still cheering for both of those players.

[coolboarder]

53 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Its the posters on here who just endlessly bash Benning. 
 

Bennings “blunders” were in rebuilding years for large majority of it. The OEL and Garland trade? Are we really suffering? We came out of it with Garland who is a massive piece in the bottom 6. Or will we begin to suffer when that buyout kicks in during our window to win…. Whats more costly, Loui Erikssons 6 mil during rebuilding years, or OELs buyout or Mikheyevs contract in contending years?

JT and OEL trade combined is a win. At the price we paid for OEL is made up for in what it cost us for what we have in Miller.

 

Bennings worst contracts

Eriksson - moot point as it wasnt holding us back from contending

Beagle, Holtby and Roussel - brought in to help play a role in development at the NHL level, just as Schenn and Holtby were. He targeted guys with cup winning experience or experienced vets to help mould the youth at the NHL level. This is why these types of players were given intermediate deals. He brought in cup experience in every area. This gets way overlooked and seen as “shit contracts” when really we paid for their experience, not their play.

What Benning accomplished in 7 years, with nothing to start with is remarkable, especially when you look at the large body or work being done in under 5 years. How many other FULL rebuilds have accomplished this much that fast? We still see a lot of the same teams still struggling year after year. Buffalo, New Jersey, Arizona etc. if you look at teams without generational talent, as to how long it took to build contenders it took a minimum of 8 years and thats also including teams WITH generational talent, to either win a cup or be a contender. Bennings did this without a 1st overall let alone a top 3 pick and no assets to move to accelerate the process.

 

 

 

 

I have had replied to a thread in other board asking how do you improve the rebuilding team.  I had thought about that topic for a while, first of all,  you should never ever, ever tank, no matter what, not even for Bedard because the way the draft lottery system worked is that anyone can climb their position when  they got lucky no matter where they finish but only one drawn opportunity to land first overall pick.   If you are that bad, let it be bad naturally, not not tanking intentionally.

 

Trading away at the deadline should be used with risks but you still need young players to have a mentor to be able to finish the season strong for a good habit in their work ethic or else you pay the price for not able to keep their work ethics up.  If you have had players at expiring contract, try to get him signed for one more year and if you felt that your young players are ready to move on without their mentors, you can trade him away for any asset.  (The Canucks lost so many assets by letting them go, for example, Tanev, Edler, Toffoli, Markstrom without any returns at all.)   I thought that was crazy but It worked out for the Canucks in return surprisingly.  Never expected that to work out but it did.  Took a while for them to recover from any missed opportunities by Benning.  Would we have any success had we traded for any asset, probably not because it helped us to clear the book and got better UFA signing from last summer via the buyout and expiring contracts.  Never be afraid to be a buyer and seller at the same time even if the season is lost: ie: Hronek.

 

2nd:  Get the veterans via the free agent to mentor the young players, even if you overpay for his service on a short-term contract.  When their contract expires, you start to pay your top young players a top dollars, for example: Pettersson.  Never rush your own prospect unless he is ready to step in even if teams are still bad.  (Hughes, Pettersson needed time in different level of hockey SHL or NCAA to get ready for NHL)

 

3rd: The Canucks is the only team that doesn't really tank and they got into a habit of playing hard until the end of a hockey game in a garbage time.  That good habit from last few seasons carried over into the start of a new season and the good habit never left and it has become their second nature.  Their hard working core has transformed into playing fast all year long and refused to let bad habit creep into their game during a dog days of the season.  This is who they are.  I could imagine if they tanked, I don't think they would have in the top of the standing.  They wouldn't work hard.  

 

That is the blueprint of how you build a team from rebuilding or retool.  I have not heard of a tanking from any other basement dweller teams this year.  No matter how you finish the season, you still need to win hockey game and use games remaining to practice and improve your craft for every opportunity should not go washed for your young core.  Chemistry still need to be developed with anyone if they want to bring back their players.   Never use training camp to try improve your game and it never worked for any rebuilding teams.  You never were trained to win any games during garbage time in a lost season at any cost by tanking.

 

Trying to find a good head coach, that is the most difficult part and we got lucky with Tocchet and so many assistant coaches with HHOF perigee and work together.   In other thread, I gave some hints but I did not give away most of my thought unlike I post here my thoughts in details.

[Barnstorm]

47 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

VGK got to hand pick NHL players, were given draft odd priveleges and were able to make deals to take unwanted players. To compare the two is unrelated. One was built through the entry draft which takes time to acquire talent and develop talent. The other through an expansion draft where players were already developed.

New management also stated at the end of 2021-22, missing playoffs for 2022-23 would be a complete failure. They firmly believed in that roster. They also backed that up by keeping everyone and then adding to the roster, yet it fell short because of injury and poor goaltending. 

 

To say there was no hope, is a shot at Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Miller and Boeser. These guys are the reason why there is hope for a cup.

Yes, Vegas had advantages. Without good decisions those advantages would have been moot. They have good management. 

 

Was hope.

Is hope.

See the difference?

 

You’re twisting things to suit your argument. Clearly my reference to no hope was directed at man agent not the players. Instead you have me poking at the core who I already credited both Benning  and themselves for what they are; our path to success. 
 

 

 

Clearly our opinions oppose . I believe management is the reason the team is playing at the level it is and Benning wasn’t going to get us there.

 

The  biggest change this team has seen in 2 years is the management, the managements decision processes and the subsequent results. Management, whether directly or indirectly, has turned this team around. Nothing else. 
 

There’s a reason Jim Benning has not been rehired despite several GM openings since Dec 2021. 
 

ETA

 

Things got so bad under Bennings leadership the team couldn’t even practice effectively. 

“WE DON’T KNOW WHAT WE’RE DOING !”

The entire league was laughing at this franchise. No one’s laughing now.

 

BB never rehired, Green only gets a head coach position years later by default. These were Bennng’s guys.


 

 

 

Edited March 11 by Barnstorm

[stawns]

35 minutes ago, CanuckMan said:

Did Loui Erikson bother you at 6M? He was good defensively too. Just never lived up to his contract. Only a difference of 1M between them

 

Nope, didn't really bother me either, LE never really hurt the team either

[Lemon Face]

1 hour ago, Moeknows said:

WOW!!! Either 12 or ESL

None of them,but i speak somehow few languages.How about you?Would you dare to go on other country forum and open your uneducated mouth.Smart ass

[NewbieCanuckFan]

44 minutes ago, CanuckMan said:

Did Loui Erikson bother you at 6M? He was good defensively too. Just never lived up to his contract. Only a difference of 1M between them

Before he was a Canuck sure.  As a Canuck?  A bit of stretch calling him good defensively.  Passable.  (imho).

[N4ZZY]

35 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

Hoglander is a friggin beast.

Glad that we didn't trade him. 

 

[CanuckMan]

15 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Nope, didn't really bother me either, LE never really hurt the team either

Lol that’s when I know you’ve got to be kidding. 5M and 6M being tied up in players brought in to bring offence (and both failed/failing). Yet it doesn’t hurt the team? Defensive forwards are 2-3M players not 5/6M

[Barnstorm]

6 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Before he was a Canuck sure.  As a Canuck?  A bit of stretch calling him good defensively.  Passable.  (imho).

Isn’t he the 6 million dollar man who put the puck in his own net? Not sure if that’s good offence or poor defence?

[Barnstorm]

18 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Nope, didn't really bother me either, LE never really hurt the team either

He friggin put the puck in his own net!

[Boudrias]

2 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I pity actually the other team that faces us in the post-season when we have all cylinders going.

 

 

Life was a lot simpler when the Duke was riding high in the saddle. Miss him and Jimmy.

[Sativika]

Great win against one of our oldest semi-rivals. I remember many contests against the Bob Essensa/Dale Hawerchuck era Winnipeg Jets. The ol' Smythe Division rivals played us out of many playoff appearances. We mostly sucked back in them days. Back then it seemed the Jets were spoilers for us to get in the playoffs, and the Flames were our 1st round spoilers in the playoffs.  Ahhh....I'm rambling................

 

Welcome back to the NHL, Winnipeg Jets! (Atlanta Thrashers?!?!!??) We welcome our old time Smythe Division battles anew! We got ya' this time! Ahhhhh ha ha ha ha!!!!!

 

Go Canucks Go!!!!!!!

[Dom]

Demko out a few games. Fuck me. 

[-dlc-]

 

[Bob Long]

38 minutes ago, Dom said:

Demko out a few games. Fuck me. 

 

This could be good for the guys as long as it's actually just a minimal injury, they have to play more disciplined now, and it's perfect timing to get ready for the playoffs.