[ARTICLE] What it might take to sign Nikita Zadorov and if it makes sense for the Canucks

[tas]

12 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

You disagree with facts? I'll let you be then...

 

I disagree with your assertion that bieksa's previous point totals are a monumental difference maker. he had, after all, 22 points in his contract year. also, his $4.6 was seen as a hometown discount.

[Coryberg]

9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We literally gave Demko a 5x5 contract and the starters position after 4 playoff games. 

We literally didn't...

 

He played 27 regular season games that season (2019-20) before the bubble and then played 35 the next season with a  .915sv% before signing his 5x5 deal in March of 2021.

[Coryberg]

8 minutes ago, tas said:

I disagree with your assertion that bieksa's previous point totals are a monumental difference maker. he had, after all, 22 points in his contract year. also, his $4.6 was seen as a hometown discount.

22 points in only 66 games, he also lead the team in plus minus that season and logged 22:28 of ice time.

 

Then in the playoffs he had 5 goals, 10 points and lead all players in ice time at 25:41.

 

Different levels for sure.

 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

29 minutes ago, RJCF96 said:

No, we didn't. Demko was still on the last year of his less than $2 million caphit contract in the 2021 season. He followed up from the bubble playoffs with another solid season and established himself as a starter before we inked him on a 5x5 contract. We did made the decision to keep Demko over Markstrom based on the playoffs, but didn't immediately sign him to a contract extension.

The decision to make Demko the starter was made after those 4 playoff games. We let Markstrom walk for free in the summer and Demko was the guy. It’s irrelevant when he actually signed the contract. The decision had already been made and we couldn’t go back. 

[tas]

14 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

22 points in only 66 games, he also lead the team in plus minus that season and logged 22:28 of ice time.

 

Then in the playoffs he had 5 goals, 10 points and lead all players in ice time at 25:41.

 

Different levels for sure.

 

 

 

10 points in 25 games as compared with zadorov's 8 in 13. I agree, a different level. 

 

they're paying for what they're expecting to get, not what they've already received. 

Edited June 17 by tas

[Elias Pettersson]

16 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

We literally didn't...

 

He played 27 regular season games that season (2019-20) before the bubble and then played 35 the next season with a  .915sv% before signing his 5x5 deal in March of 2021.

He was a backup before the bubble. He was never getting a 5x5 contract as a backup. The decision to make him the starter happened after those 4 playoff games. We let Markstrom walk and the rest is history. It’s irrelevant when he actually signed the contract. He was always going to sign a new deal as our starter once Markstrom was allowed to walk away. 
 

My point was we made him our starter after those 4 playoff games. That’s how we judged him. It’s not like he was better than Markstrom prior to that. Markstrom had better numbers than Demko in 2019-2020. He started the playoffs. He got injured and Demko came in. And Demko was lights out and Markstrom lost his job permanently.
 

Same with Zadorov. He is being judged based on those 13 playoff games. He was lights out in the playoffs.  He showed he can be a top 4 Dman and play 20 minutes a night. So his worth is easily $5 million per year. 

[Coryberg]

7 minutes ago, tas said:

10 points in 25 games as compared with zadorov's 8 in 13. I agree, a different level. 

 

they're paying for what they're expecting to get, not what they've already received. 

That is a great strategy... when you are signing 23 year olds.

 

Zadorov is 29 years old, he is what he is and has had 11 seasons to prove it. That is a 4/5 dman that gets around 18 minutes a game and 15-20 points. 

 

[Coryberg]

25 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

He was a backup before the bubble. He was never getting a 5x5 contract as a backup. The decision to make him the starter happened after those 4 playoff games. 
 

My point was we made him our starter after those 4 playoff games. That’s how we judged him.

Benning actually brought in holtby to be our starter and mentor demko. Holtby fell on his face and demko took the reigns. That is where he proved he was worth 5x5.

 

He was given the 5x5 after....

-a solid 2019-20 season of 27 games with a .905sv%

-an incredible series against the nights with a .985sv%

-a breakout 2020-21 season where he played 35 games with a .915sv% behind a horrible team.

 

 

Edited June 17 by Coryberg

[Nucker67]

I imagine the Canucks without Zadorov next season. Expecting Soucy and Myers to handle everything, when Soucy can barely stay healthy at times. Canucks were difficult to play against once Zadorov came aboard. If he leaves, they won't be the same team.

 

Most important re-signing of the off season IMO, and if it's about the money, I would even go so far as trading Soucy to make it happen.

[tas]

12 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

That is a great strategy... when you are signing 23 year olds.

 

Zadorov is 29 years old, he is what he is and has had 11 seasons to prove it. That is a 4/5 dman that gets around 18 minutes a game and 15-20 points. 

 

as I've said before, I expect him to continue to improve, especially with this coaching staff. so does he. 

 

it's fine if the canucks don't want to buck up, because lots of other teams will show the belief in him. 

[PhillipBlunt]

33 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

He was a backup before the bubble. He was never getting a 5x5 contract as a backup. The decision to make him the starter happened after those 4 playoff games. We let Markstrom walk and the rest is history. It’s irrelevant when he actually signed the contract. He was always going to sign a new deal as our starter once Markstrom was allowed to walk away. 
 

My point was we made him our starter after those 4 playoff games. That’s how we judged him. It’s not like he was better than Markstrom prior to that. Markstrom had better numbers than Demko in 2019-2020. He started the playoffs. He got injured and Demko came in. And Demko was lights out and Markstrom lost his job permanently.
 

Same with Zadorov. He is being judged based on those 13 playoff games. He was lights out in the playoffs.  He showed he can be a top 4 Dman and play 20 minutes a night. So his worth is easily $5 million per year. 

What's the word?

[HKSR]

23 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

That is a great strategy... when you are signing 23 year olds.

 

Zadorov is 29 years old, he is what he is and has had 11 seasons to prove it. That is a 4/5 dman that gets around 18 minutes a game and 15-20 points. 

 

Their hope is that Zadorov hits another level like Chara did in his 30s.  Chara's best years actually came after he left OTT and was given a larger role.  I could see it happening, but it is absolutely a gamble.  Those 13 playoff games could have been a flash in the pan, or it could have been a preview of what's to come... I can see this being a very difficult decision for PA/JR.

 

PS - before we go down that path, nobody here is saying Zadorov = Chara in terms of a player.  For me, I just see how people feel there is room for possible growth with Zadorov, even though he's 29yo. 

[Elias Pettersson]

14 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

Benning actually brought in holtby to be our starter and mentor demko. Holtby fell on his face and demko took the reigns. That is where he proved he was worth 5x5.

 

He was given the 5x5 after....

-a solid 2019-20 season of 27 games with a .905sv%

-an incredible series against the nights with a .985sv%

-a breakout 2020-21 season where he played 35 games with a .915sv% behind a horrible team.

 

 

 

Holtby was a placeholder.  At best he was a 1A.  He was never going to be out starter.  The decision on Demko was made in the summer of 2020 when we let Markstrom walk.  After those 4 playoff games Demko was our guy.  Holtby was never in our long term plans...

[Rip The Mesh]

2 hours ago, Bure10Kuzmenko96 said:

It didn't say anything about Zaddy

well that's strange, does on mine.

[Rip The Mesh]

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

What's the word?

 

[spook007]

20 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

Benning actually brought in holtby to be our starter and mentor demko. Holtby fell on his face and demko took the reigns. That is where he proved he was worth 5x5.

 

He was given the 5x5 after....

-a solid 2019-20 season of 27 games with a .905sv%

-an incredible series against the nights with a .985sv%

-a breakout 2020-21 season where he played 35 games with a .915sv% behind a horrible team.

 

 

hmmm... think Hotly was brought in as a safety net, in case Demko was a fluke, more than taking over the no.1 spot...

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, spook007 said:

hmmm... think Hotly was brought in as a safety net, in case Demko was a fluke, more than taking over the no.1 spot...

 

Exactly.  We let Markstrom walk because Demko was our guy.  Holtby was signed as insurance.  As a 1A at best.  A placeholder.  If he was our starter we would have signed him to a long term deal.  

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

 

After years of service to the org.

 

And don't get me wrong, I want zad to stay, but I don't want them to overpay him because he had a great 13 games.

It's a scale of overpay.    His UFA value without taxes or anything, is set at 5.25 x 4.      Who's going to replace him?  Dillon?  The Dickinson plus age of rough and tumble UFAs who really has nothing  else to prove?   Nah.   Plus someone else will likely overpay for him.     The higher you go, the more the overpay.    Hronek.   Yikes.   8 x 8 that's scary as fuck. 

 

Every year the CDC goes wild over the X-box UFA game.  Like it's at all close to that easy.   32 teams.  Why us?  One of the worst taxed teams in the league.   Zadorov actually wants to be here.   Not sure why that's not valued.   It's not just the 13 games either.  The team was completely in the mud when Soucy went down.   Until Z came on board.  He's only a couple years older than Hronek. 

Edited June 17 by IBatch

[IBatch]

11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Exactly.  We let Markstrom walk because Demko was our guy.  Holtby was signed as insurance.  As a 1A at best.  A placeholder.  If he was our starter we would have signed him to a long term deal.  

If JB trusted Demko then, he would have signed a De-Smith.   Didn't at all.  And well, same goes for anyone slotting Silovs in for the starter job.   Not going to happen.   In fact bet good money, they spend some insurance money on Silovs this off season.  As a roster spot back-up just in case the back doesn't work, same thing they did with our depth D with  Irwin.

Edited June 17 by IBatch

[HarbularyBattery]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It's a scale of overpay.    His UFA value without taxes or anything, is set at 5.25 x 4.      Who's going to replace him?  Dillon?  The Dickinson plus age of rough and tumble UFAs who really has nothing  else to prove?   Nah.   Plus someone else will likely overpay for him.     The higher you go, the more the overpay.    Hronek.   Yikes.   8 x 8 that's scary as fuck. 

 

Every year the CDC goes wild over the X-box UFA game.  Like it's at all close to that easy.   32 teams.  Why us?  One of the worst taxed teams in the league.   Zadorov actually wants to be here.   Not sure why that's not valued.   It's not just the 13 games either.  The team was completely in the mud when Soucy went down.   Until Z came on board.

 

zadorov at 5m is probably ok value for us but damn does it leave us in a tough spot to improve elsewhere

 

 

[Bob Long]

36 minutes ago, Nucker67 said:

I imagine the Canucks without Zadorov next season. Expecting Soucy and Myers to handle everything, when Soucy can barely stay healthy at times. Canucks were difficult to play against once Zadorov came aboard. If he leaves, they won't be the same team.

 

Most important re-signing of the off season IMO, and if it's about the money, I would even go so far as trading Soucy to make it happen.

 

I'll go further, imagine an injury or two. 

[HarbularyBattery]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'll go further, imagine an injury or two. 

thats probably the logic in having 2x additional top4 LDs in soucy and zadorov

 

we have to keep hronek though or someone in his profile, we wont get anywhere with only 1 defenseman that can move the puck up the ice

 

 

Edited June 17 by HarbularyBattery

[EdgarM]

16 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Their hope is that Zadorov hits another level like Chara did in his 30s.  Chara's best years actually came after he left OTT and was given a larger role.  I could see it happening, but it is absolutely a gamble.  Those 13 playoff games could have been a flash in the pan, or it could have been a preview of what's to come... I can see this being a very difficult decision for PA/JR.

 

PS - before we go down that path, nobody here is saying Zadorov = Chara in terms of a player.  For me, I just see how people feel there is room for possible growth with Zadorov, even though he's 29yo. 

I believe Zadorov actually mentioned that and I believe he has not peeked to his full potential yet either. He was learning the system last year and I believe he got more comfortable as he played more games. 

He seems to follow what the needs of his fellow team mates need and what his coaches ask of him. Other then Hughes, I think he is our next most valuable defenseman because of all that he brings in one package. He is all what we hoped Tryamkin what have brought, plus, he has the experience of a regular NHLer to boot.

Along with that , I have only heard one other player saying or taking a pay cut to stay here. That means a lot IMHO.

[RupertKBD]

13 hours ago, The Duke said:

Here’s a fun one:  

 

Zadorov and Juulsen 

 

or 

 

Dillon and Hakanpaa with Juulsen as a #7

 

Firstly, I don't mean to pick on you Duke, it's just that I see a fair amount of posters saying if Z won't sign for X amount, then we just move on and sign player B. The above post just reminded me.....

 

We have to bear in mind that with Zadorov, we have a player who has indicated that he wants to be here. There have been a lot of numbers thrown around, but none of us really knows what the asking price is, but it seems reasonable to assume that it's less than what he could get on the open market. What it comes down to is "how much less" and is that enough to fit within the Canucks' salary framework?

 

TBH, I think this whole idea of saying "I don't think he's worth 6 x 6", (or whatever) really means anything. He's worth what he can get.

 

Now, it's all well and good to say, "Let someone else overpay him", but the problem with that line of thinking is that once that contract is signed with another team, it becomes the benchmark for other FA contracts. You want to sign Dillon? Okay....what if he wants more than you think he's worth too? What if he doesn't even want to come to Vancouver?

 

Same goes for Tanev....or Pesce. Somehow, you have to convince one of these guys to sign with your team. Why do we all assume that these other guys are going to be happy with what we want to pay, any more than Zadorov? Wishful thinking, IMHO....

 

Zadorov doesn't need convincing. He wants to be here. If it takes an extra million over 5 or 6 years, I don't think that should be a deal breaker for a player who brings the physical assets that he does to the table.