fuzzy Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 18 minutes ago, bh90 said: Whens the last time having great depth has won any team a Stanley cup vs having high end talent in their top 6 that can drive play? I can't recall of any team of a bunch of 15-30G scorers winning the cup in the modern NHL. All cup winning teams have had dynamic high end talent that pushes play How did our depth and Dallas ELITE depth fair vs the Oilers? St Louis Blues. We have elite players, we lack scoring depth. Petey with Mikheyev, Karlsson, Lafferty is not the solution. Playing your top center with 4th liners is not viable. We need multiple players that can contribute consistently. Even Edmonton needed goals from RNH, and Ceci to beat us in game 7 Edited June 21 by fuzzy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Canuck You Posted June 21 Popular Post Share Posted June 21 23 minutes ago, stawns said: Willander is probably 3 years away, at least, from top 4 duties in the nhl Pass the joint... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 52 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: Is simple arithmetic considered overthinking now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 18 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yeah, I don't think so. Have you actually watched him play? His skating is elite, and he is solid defensively. There is no reason why his development would take that long. JR thinks Lekkerimaki can crack the roster next season as a 20 year old. Willander will be doing the same thing... Yeah I can't see it taking that long either. Willander will be the main guy at BU next year, and likely will get a taste of Canucks hockey towards the end of the season, then have a full time gig the year after. It'll be 2 years tops. The fact he's trending like McAvoy, I'd say Willander will be a top 4 on this roster by 2025-26. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 18 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yeah, I don't think so. Have you actually watched him play? His skating is elite, and he is solid defensively. There is no reason why his development would take that long. JR thinks Lekkerimaki can crack the roster next season as a 20 year old. Willander will be doing the same thing... He might be on the roster before then, but very doubtful he'll be top 4 within 3 years I've watched him as much as anyone has, including 4-5 games in uni this year. Good, solid dman, for sure. Is he going to come in and assert himself as a top level player in his early 20's.........I don't see that from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Beni Posted June 21 Popular Post Share Posted June 21 1 hour ago, stawns said: Riding shotgun to one of the best players in the history of the game for his entire career So his 25 points in 17GP for the cane's to close out the season are a fluke right? Or his 9pts in 11 Playoff games this year? I think JG deserves a bit more credit. Even if I am on the fence about a long term deal for him they really need high end talent to play with EP, or they need to trade him because he isn't good enough to do it on his own. 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 1 minute ago, stawns said: He might be on the roster before then, but very doubtful he'll be top 4 within 3 years I've watched him as much as anyone has, including 4-5 games in uni this year. Good, solid dman, for sure. Is he going to come in and assert himself as a top level player in his early 20's.........I don't see that from him. He has a similar skill set to Charlie McAvoy who played top 4 minutes as a 20 year old. Willander was even drafted higher than McAvoy and had a better D+1 season. So there is nothing to suggest it’s going to take him 3 more years to crack the top 4. He will 100% be on the roster next season and fighting for a top 4 spot. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 7 minutes ago, Beni said: So his 25 points in 17GP for the cane's to close out the season are a fluke right? Or his 9pts in 11 Playoff games this year? I think JG deserves a bit more credit. Even if I am on the fence about a long term deal for him they really need high end talent to play with EP, or they need to trade him because he isn't good enough to do it on his own. As I said several times, I think he's a great player. I never said otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: He has a similar skill set to Charlie McAvoy who played top 4 minutes as a 20 year old. Willander was even drafted higher than McAvoy and had a better D+1 season. So there is nothing to suggest it’s going to take him 3 more years to crack the top 4. He will 100% be on the roster next season and fighting for a top 4 spot. I hope he is on the roster next season, and I think there's a decent chance of it. Also a decent chance he's in Abby for part of the year, at least. JR and PA are very upfront that they like prospects to overcook and come in ready to make an impact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rusty Shackleford Posted June 21 Popular Post Share Posted June 21 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh90 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 41 minutes ago, fuzzy said: St Louis Blues. We have elite players, we lack scoring depth. Petey with Mikheyev, Karlsson, Lafferty is not the solution. Playing your top center with 4th liners is not viable. We need multiple players that can contribute consistently. Even Edmonton needed goals from RNH, and Ceci to beat us in game 7 But nobody advocated we have 4th liners with Petey. The crowd is saying add JG with Petey but the counter argument is that we should rather fill out the roster with 20G type players so more Hoglanders. Right st louis is probably the only example in the past 20 years so i wouldnt build our team to be like the exception. St louis is arguably one of the worst offensive teams to win the Stanley cup since the Devils. They won based on their defensive game and goal tending. Also for Edmonton RNH is an elite talent he is a 30-40G guy and 90-100 pt player. He is not 20G type player. McDavid, Draisatl, Hyman, RNH and Bouchard beat the Canucks. Their elite offensive talent who we simply could not contain. Edmonton had plenty of other offensive options, good depth options but they were simply a non-factor Elite high end skill wins talent. Great depth teams don't just ask the Stars, Hurricanes, Islanders, Jets etc how successful they've been the last 10 years with all their great depth that is a non factor come.playpff time because they don't have elite talent that can drive play 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 21 minutes ago, stawns said: As I said several times, I think he's a great player. I never said otherwise 1 hour ago, stawns said: Riding shotgun to one of the best players in the history of the game for his entire career Suggesting he's only successful because of Crosby would say otherwise. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 4 minutes ago, bh90 said: But nobody advocated we have 4th liners with Petey. The crowd is saying add JG with Petey but the counter argument is that we should rather fill out the roster with 20G type players so more Hoglanders. Right st louis is probably the only example in the past 20 years so i wouldnt build our team to be like the exception. St louis is arguably one of the worst offensive teams to win the Stanley cup since the Devils. They won based on their defensive game and goal tending. Also for Edmonton RNH is an elite talent he is a 30-40G guy and 90-100 pt player. He is not 20G type player. McDavid, Draisatl, Hyman, RNH and Bouchard beat the Canucks. Their elite offensive talent who we simply could not contain. Edmonton had plenty of other offensive options, good depth options but they were simply a non-factor Elite high end skill wins talent. Great depth teams don't just ask the Stars, Hurricanes, Islanders, Jets etc how successful they've been the last 10 years with all their great depth that is a non factor come.playpff time because they don't have elite talent that can drive play Exactly. ALL the top teams have 3 or more guys being paid around $9M or more (elite level) including an additional 2 or 3 guys in the $7M+ range. Canucks have: Petey at 11.6 (long term) Miller at 8 (long term) Hughes at 7.85 Hronek at 7.25 (long term) Boeser at 6.65 We can absolutely afford another top tier talent that slots in cap-wise between Miller and Petey. And arguably we should add one to really compete against the best of the best. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 minute ago, HKSR said: Exactly. ALL the top teams have 3 or more guys being paid around $9M or more (elite level) including an additional 2 or 3 guys in the $7M+ range. Canucks have: Petey at 11.6 (long term) Miller at 8 (long term) Hughes at 7.85 Hronek at 7.25 (long term) Boeser at 6.65 We can absolutely afford another top tier talent that slots in cap-wise between Miller and Petey. And arguably we should add one to really compete against the best of the best. I've even said we arguably need two top six forwards, unless we really think Lekkerimaki can make the jump next year that would go a long way for cap savings. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_Hawk Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 16 minutes ago, bh90 said: But nobody advocated we have 4th liners with Petey. The crowd is saying add JG with Petey but the counter argument is that we should rather fill out the roster with 20G type players so more Hoglanders. Right st louis is probably the only example in the past 20 years so i wouldnt build our team to be like the exception. St louis is arguably one of the worst offensive teams to win the Stanley cup since the Devils. They won based on their defensive game and goal tending. Also for Edmonton RNH is an elite talent he is a 30-40G guy and 90-100 pt player. He is not 20G type player. McDavid, Draisatl, Hyman, RNH and Bouchard beat the Canucks. Their elite offensive talent who we simply could not contain. Edmonton had plenty of other offensive options, good depth options but they were simply a non-factor Elite high end skill wins talent. Great depth teams don't just ask the Stars, Hurricanes, Islanders, Jets etc how successful they've been the last 10 years with all their great depth that is a non factor come.playpff time because they don't have elite talent that can drive play Teams that win have the high end talent not just great depth. I'm in the same boat as you; we need a difference maker, not just more 10-20G depth. That MIGHT be Lekkermaki in a couple years, but we need a bridge to that at the minimum. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_Hawk Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 5 minutes ago, Pears said: I've even said we arguably need two top six forwards, unless we really think Lekkerimaki can make the jump next year that would go a long way for cap savings. We do need two. I love Suter, but he should be no where near the top 6 , especially on a team that really relies on 2 1B lines vs a true 1st line like an Edm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 2 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said: We do need two. I love Suter, but he should be no where near the top 6 , especially on a team that really relies on 2 1B lines vs a true 1st line like an Edm. Yep I've said the same. We can't take the next step while we have Suter's and Mikheyev's rotating in and out of the top six. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 3 hours ago, BC_Hawk said: You propose running the same team back minus Lindholm. That recipe wasn't good enough to get out of the 2nd round. We need to get better, and better is not paying Dakota 3.75 or Zad 5.55; we need to get more prudent with some of the resigns so we can add talent. The team above is worse than the one we iced a month ago. Let Dakota walk... Draw a line in the sand with Zad; offer more years vs $. My guess now is 4.75-5m x 5/6yr OR 5.5-6 3-4yr in FA is his price. That's not really true though. EDM is going into game 6 against FLA we took them to game 7 with our 3rd string goalie and Pete playing like garbage. With Demko and Pete on his game we would have won the series. And possibly made the finals. Zee and Dak were a big reason we did as well as we did. 2 of our top 6 players in the playoffs. Both outperformed Pete. letting them walk over a few hundered k would be silly talk. I have Zad in your range 5.55 over 5. 7 or 8 years would be bad biz Dak 3.75 over 4 We buy both of their primes and none of their decline. And we pay a little extra for that. They have between 5 and 8m in cap space depending on how they handle Mik. If that's not enough bread to upgrade your fwds youre a lame duck GM. Honestly I would be happy to re up Lindholm and let Blueger walk and really run it back and make a dl move to bolster the group that took the west coast champs to 7. Fans always have this grass is greener need for new shiny toys. Had we had Guentzel instead of Lindholm do you think we would have gone further? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewonder20 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 3 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: I see Blueger, Zadorov, and Myers back. Youve got potential for Friedman and Juulsen to conpete with an under 1m ufa depth dman for # 6. The team already stated they intend to fill some lower roster spots with internal competition and frankly thats what good teams do anyways. Blueger as a reliable bottom six center comes back and you fill one or two bottom six/depth spots with nicely seasoned and stewed youngsters from a pool of Raty, Bains, Karlsson, Sasson to name a few. You 100% have the ability and this IS the time to secure Guentzel. I’d like that to be true and doable but don’t think there’s enough cap space to accomplish all that (at present). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 hour ago, HKSR said: Yeah I can't see it taking that long either. Willander will be the main guy at BU next year, and likely will get a taste of Canucks hockey towards the end of the season, then have a full time gig the year after. It'll be 2 years tops. The fact he's trending like McAvoy, I'd say Willander will be a top 4 on this roster by 2025-26. That seems like a reasonable process and progress for Willander. I think 3 years or longer and we start to get concerned about his development. A first round pick should not take that long to break into the club. I agree that he should be on the roster by the 25-26 season. Maybe that year after that. Maybe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rekker said: Our forwards need more size in the top six. Players with size and speed to forececk and drive the opposition back when playing trap like teams. Imho Canucks really lack in just driving down the wing and backing up the opposition. Oilers do this well. That is fair and I have been saying same thing. Mik oddly is one of our best options if he can get confidence back and knee recovers further. Podz almost has to fill that role on a nightly basis at this point. We definitely need some more scoring on the wing though. I think for PFs we are looking at reclamation projects. There aren’t a lot of decent power forwards out there. Dak after 1 good season may be looking at $4M. The extra $5M left over from what Guentzel costs doesn’t land you a top 6 scoring forward unless it is a fairly flawed one like Toffoli. Can’t wait to see what PA pulls off, just hope that we all remember that the team PA starts the year with looks nothing like the one that finishes the year. UFA is just the start with him. Edited June 21 by DrJockitch 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 7 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: The extra $5M left over from what Guentzel costs doesn’t land you a top 6 scoring forward unless it is a fairly flawed one like Toffoli. Can’t wait to see what PA pulls off, just hope that we all remember that the team PA starts the year with looks nothing like the one that finishes the year. UFA is just the start with him. Probably not as a ufa, but with $5mil in cap space you could acquire a top 6 forward in a trade either now or at the deadline. It just gives the team more options. Ultimately, they will go as far as Petey, Hughes, and Miller take them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syntheticity Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 29 minutes ago, Hammertime said: Had we had Guentzel instead of Lindholm do you think we would have gone further? Yes, I do. Lindholm was very good defensively and on faceoffs, but JG has the potential to help address bigger issues we faced against both the Oliers and the Preds: our need for an effective linemate to pair with Petey, generating more offense off the rush instead of relying so much on shots from the point (which teams were predicting and countering with shot blocking), injecting more offensive threats & options into the powerplay, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Just now, fuzzy said: Probably not as a ufa, but with $5mil in cap space you could acquire a top 6 forward in a trade either now or at the deadline. It just gives the team more options. Ultimately, they will go as far as Petey, Hughes, and Miller take them. I still think you go after the elite talent. PA is amazing at back filling. He has shown a lot of skill at finding bottom six players that work and ejecting the ones that don’t. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 58 minutes ago, Pears said: I've even said we arguably need two top six forwards, unless we really think Lekkerimaki can make the jump next year that would go a long way for cap savings. I'm not convinced yet he can make the jump but the door is open for him. Would be great if he could but we can't bank on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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