[ARTICLE] What it might take to sign Nikita Zadorov and if it makes sense for the Canucks

[EdgarM]

12 minutes ago, greenbean30 said:

We aren't getting rid of Lindholm, we just aren't willing to pay $8m+ for a 40 point player, which I 100% agree with. I also agree not paying more than $5m for a d-man who has been a #5 who can sometimes fills in as a #4 through his whole career.

Your opinion, I personally think that Lindholm would suit #2 Center behind Miller and a lot cheaper then Petey. 

I see Zadorov higher in the pecking order and apparently management does too as they offered him around 5 million where as Myers and Soucy are in the 3 million range. 

In the end, we prioritized Petey and Myers and see Lindholm and Zadorov as expendable.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, RWJC said:

again, overpayment is a term used that fits our own designated cap structure and positioning.

 

overpayment isn’t what you pay for a player who is free of encumbrances.

it’s market value…Free to negotiate with anyone and goes to highest bidder. That dictates value. So if he is contracted for 6, then that becomes a fair and accurate representation of the level of demand for his services. 
 

that makes sense, no?

Sure, the market will dictate itself. If someone wants to pay Zadorov $6 million and Lindholm $8 million all the power to them. It doesn’t mean we should pay it regardless what assets we traded for them. 
 

At the end of the day, we acquired them for our playoff run. If you want to call them rentals so be it. JR said he wanted to reward the team. Lindholm and Zadorov were the rewards. If Demko and Boeser are healthy for game 7 maybe we are in the cup finals. 
 

At some point you need to take the shot. So we did. Now we have to plan for next season and beyond. Allvin doesn’t want to overpay these guys based on his value. He even said that in his interview. So I don’t think you should be second guessing him right now because quite frankly you don’t know his next shot. You and I don’t know what he has planned next. When  free agency is over then we can analyze what he did and can make an assessment at that time if he did well or not. 

Edited June 30 by Elias Pettersson

[gwarrior]

7 minutes ago, Devron said:

I think they might end up in panic territory 

Unless there is a back up plan....... don't get me wrong, I loved what Zadorov brought, but we can't go to 6 million. 5.25 was the highest I personally would have gone to. But here we are. As for the back up plan, it kind of has to be Dillon, dosen't it?

[greenbean30]

1 minute ago, EdgarM said:

Your opinion, I personally think that Lindholm would suit #2 Center behind Miller and a lot cheaper then Petey. 

I see Zadorov higher in the pecking order and apparently management does too as they offered him around 5 million where as Myers and Soucy are in the 3 million range. 

In the end, we prioritized Petey and Myers and see Lindholm and Zadorov as expendable.

Of course we prioritized Petey, he is a much better player than Lindholm, and is 4 years younger. If we had chosen to keep Lindholm over Petterson, that would've been one of the worst decisions by a front office ever.

We also didn't prioritize Myers over Zadorov, we could easily afford Zadorov but there is a number they feel he is worth and aren't willing to go over that. It is not because we kept Myers that we aren't re-signing Zadorov. It's because Zadorov feels he can get more than the $5m we are willing to offer.

[canuck73_3]

3 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Your opinion, I personally think that Lindholm would suit #2 Center behind Miller and a lot cheaper then Petey. 

I see Zadorov higher in the pecking order and apparently management does too as they offered him around 5 million where as Myers and Soucy are in the 3 million range. 

In the end, we prioritized Petey and Myers and see Lindholm and Zadorov as expendable.

We aren’t getting rid of Lindholm because he turned down offers and will be going to Boston. Again, can’t get rid of someone that doesn’t want to be here. 

[PeteyBoeser]

I’m just looking at playoffs highlights. Lot of our goals you willl see Zadorov celebrating not Hronek. He is in lot of the highlight even if he doesn’t get a point. We score lots when he was on the ice. He was someone’s I wouldn’t have minded overpaying. 6 mil would’ve got it done I think not 5.. 

[canuck73_3]

5 minutes ago, Devron said:

I think they might end up in panic territory 

There is nothing in this managements history that shows they’re in panic territory. Benning’s been gone a while now 

[DeNiro]

16 minutes ago, greenbean30 said:

Here's the main point, it was 13 games. Every single player has the ability to get hot for a short period of time, Jeff fucking Cowan scored 6 goals in 4 games and had a bra tossed on the ice.

You do not pay players because of a short stint of hot play. Zads over 5 mill is too much money for what he has shown throughout his career.

Can’t believe that has to be argued.

 

Imagine a player could negotiate a contract based on 13 games. 

[Devron]

1 minute ago, gwarrior said:

Unless there is a back up plan....... don't get me wrong, I loved what Zadorov brought, but we can't go to 6 million. 5.25 was the highest I personally would have gone to. But here we are. As for the back up plan, it kind of has to be Dillon, dosen't it?

I just think Dillion will command 4 million so why don’t we go for someone younger. 5.25 was my number too. Guess we’ll see. Hopefully I’m just paranoid and everything will work out. 
 

It’s a huge offseason for our club as we won’t have any cap space the next couple years 

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

Can’t believe that has to be argued.

 

Imagine a player could negotiate a contract based on 13 games. 

Boeser would be kicking himself for his hot start this year if so

[greenbean30]

1 minute ago, PeteyBoeser said:

I’m just looking at playoffs highlights. Lot of our goals you willl see Zadorov celebrating not Hronek. He is in lot of the highlight even if he doesn’t get a point. We score lots when he was on the ice. He was someone’s I wouldn’t have minded overpaying. 6 mil would’ve got it done I think not 5.. 

That is bad business though. We already had to buyout a terrible contract in OEL, we can't be overpaying players while we have that dead cap, especially by $1m.

And if you start overpaying players, eventually we will just get to Benning and overpay every player.

[Devron]

3 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

There is nothing in this managements history that shows they’re in panic territory. Benning’s been gone a while now 

PTSD maybe. Everything seems familiar to me 

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, Devron said:

I just think Dillion will command 4 million so why don’t we go for someone younger. 5.25 was my number too. Guess we’ll see. Hopefully I’m just paranoid and everything will work out. 
 

It’s a huge offseason for our club as we won’t have any cap space the next couple years 

While younger is nice dmen that bring what he brings are few and far between especially ones that are readily available. I mean realistically after Dillon the next available one is Trouba basically. 

[RWJC]

11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Sure, the market will dictate itself. If someone wants to pay Zadorov $6 million and Lindholm $8 million all the power to them. It doesn’t mean we should pay it regardless what assets we traded for them. 
 

At the end of the day, we acquired them for our playoff run. If you want to call them rentals so be it. JR said he wanted to reward the team. Lindholm and Zadorov were the rewards. If Demko and Boeser are healthy for game 7 maybe we are in the cup finals. 
 

At some point you need to take the shot. So we did. Now we have to plan for next season and beyond. Allvin doesn’t want to overpay these guys based on his value. He even said that in his interview. So I don’t think you should be second guessing him right now because quite frankly you don’t know his next shot. You and I don’t know what he has planned next. When  free agency is over then we can analyze what he did and can make an assessment at that time if he did well or not. 

Agreed, just remember this though because it’s part of the total equation and result of just two trades (not taking into account cap

space provided as mentioned) without ANY returning asset retained.

 

OUT:

Lindholm

Zadorov

Kuzmenko

Brzustewicz

Jurmo

2024 first-round

Conditional 2024 fourth-round pick

2024 5th round 

2026 3rd round 

 

 

That’s a large price tag for …?

Edited June 30 by RWJC

[Devron]

1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said:

While younger is nice dmen that bring what he brings are few and far between especially ones that are readily available. I mean realistically after Dillon the next available one is Trouba basically. 

Age, size, need. I juts think z is the best option for our club. I’m just hoping this is some ploy to get him to resign reasonably 

[SilentSam]

5 minutes ago, greenbean30 said:

We aren't getting rid of Lindholm, we just aren't willing to pay $8m+ for a 40 point player, which I 100% agree with. I also agree not paying more than $5m for a d-man who has been a #5 who can sometimes fills in as a #4 through his whole career.

 

No , we are losing Lindholm , after signing Myers .

it’s about money right.  Not players.

 

If Guentzel is going to Tampa for a speculated 10m,    the market has changed , for everyone , INCLUDING D MEN.

 

The problem is the “Master Planners “ like to bargain hunt on price ,. And the real Managers unload DEPRECIATING ASSETS .

Build their Cap Space and prioritize Forwards and Defencemen.

 

Like we moved away from Mikheyev,  and should have with Myers.

It’s that money that resets the team needs.

 

I personally would have prioritized Zadorov over Myers durring the playoffs and signed him then.

 

You can not wait too long when you hold a UFA , because at UFA / Draft everyone starts panicking or getting excited ,.  And just when you “reprioritize “  because someone takes your “target” player,.  The next one on your list is gone too.

 

 

[greenbean30]

1 minute ago, Devron said:

PTSD maybe. Everything seems familiar to me 

The big difference is they didn't "run out of time", they just aren't paying more than what they value a player at. They value Zads at $5m and nothing more, which I personally agree with. He thinks he's worth more, so good bye. Same goes with Lindholm.

You can just pay players what they want, if they think they're worth more than you do, you have to let them go.

[greenbean30]

1 minute ago, RWJC said:

Agreed, just remember this though because it’s part of the total equation and result of just two trades (not taking into account cap

space provided as mentioned) without ANY returning asset retained.

 

OUT:

Lindholm

Zadorov

Kuzmenko

Brzustewicz

Jurmo

2024 first-round

Conditional 2024 fourth-round pick

2024 5th round 

2026 3rd round 

 

 

That’s a large price tag for …?

For a chance at competing for the Stanley Cup. Only 1 team ever wins, but you have to try when the opportunities arise, especially with how our team was playing this year.

Rentals are things all the top teams do, and lots of times those rentals do not get re-signed.

[EdgarM]

13 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Soucy is more of a shutdown guy that doesn’t put up a tonne of points Zadorov is better offensively while not as strong defensively and offense gets you a pay bump. Soucy was still deployed as a 4/5 option and Zadorov as a 6 no matter how much you move the goal posts. 

I actually thught Z was a better shut down guy in the playoffs. The board play got tougher for Soucy with the tighter checking as well as his ability to keep possession of the puck when pressured.

This is just going round and round lets just agree to disagree. It really boils  down to how important we see this player is to our success. I see him more of a critical component then Soucy or Myers. We will find out what the master plan is in a couple  of days I guess.

[greenbean30]

2 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

 

No , we are losing Lindholm , after signing Myers .

it’s about money right.  Not players.

 

If Guentzel is going to Tampa for a speculated 10m,    the market has changed , for everyone , INCLUDING D MEN.

 

The problem is the “Master Planners “ like to bargain hunt on price ,. And the real Managers unload DEPRECIATING ASSETS .

Build their Cap Space and prioritize Forwards and Defencemen.

 

Like we moved away from Mikheyev,  and should have with Myers.

It’s that money that resets the team needs.

 

I personally would have prioritized Zadorov over Myers durring the playoffs and signed him then.

 

You can not wait too long when you hold a UFA , because at UFA / Draft everyone starts panicking or getting excited ,.  And just when you “reprioritize “  because someone takes your “target” player,.  The next one on your list is gone too.

 

 

So you would gladly pay whatever a player feels they are worth?

So we should sign Lindholm at $8m and Zadorov at $6m? 

 

We tried to sign Lindholm and Zadorov, they feel they are worth more than we are offering, and they were both offered fair value. $7m and $5m offered, they think they're worth more than that, you don't just bend to whatever a player is wanting. We didn't wait to offer these players these contracts until after Myers was signed, the negotiations have been on going and couldn't be agreed upon. 

[gwarrior]

10 minutes ago, Devron said:

Age, size, need. I juts think z is the best option for our club. I’m just hoping this is some ploy to get him to resign reasonably 

I do agree with you there. But I get the feeling he has one foot out the door. But ya never know. We could circle back to him, or he could circle back to us.

[RWJC]

8 minutes ago, greenbean30 said:

For a chance at competing for the Stanley Cup. Only 1 team ever wins, but you have to try when the opportunities arise, especially with how our team was playing this year.

Rentals are things all the top teams do, and lots of times those rentals do not get re-signed.

I understand. I totally do. Just being objective here.

where were we positioned in the standings prior to the trades?

does it warrant that much expense going out when we were arguably already well established in the playoff race? Those assets drove our playoff run, yes and the boys definitely benefit from the experience. I just argue it’s a lot of assets to dole out when we had limited draft and trade capital to begin with. Again, just hope we come out of Free Agency with some improvements if what I mention above is part of the cost of our progression as a team, because if we dont find the right pieces, we have even less means to reconcile any mistakes. And there are always mistakes.

Edited June 30 by RWJC

[SilentSam]

43 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

It’s interesting the dichotomy of Zadorov being a playoff monster, who was one of a few players who took their play to another level across the board this last postseason, all the while being really nothing more than a 5-6 defenseman, who should be lucky to get $5M on the open market. 

exactly!!

and fans here say :

“he did that for 3.75 !    We should sign him for 4.25”

“ He’s not worth 5 m , he’s a 5-6 Dman! that would be a nice deal for us “ 

“I love him”.   
 

And then they would play him as a top 4 and every body would say “ we got him at a bargain”  .

 

CDC in a nutshell.. Flea market managers. The only appreciation, worth, and projection they see in a player is his shadow as he walks out the door.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EdgarM]

15 minutes ago, greenbean30 said:

Of course we prioritized Petey, he is a much better player than Lindholm, and is 4 years younger. If we had chosen to keep Lindholm over Petterson, that would've been one of the worst decisions by a front office ever.

We also didn't prioritize Myers over Zadorov, we could easily afford Zadorov but there is a number they feel he is worth and aren't willing to go over that. It is not because we kept Myers that we aren't re-signing Zadorov. It's because Zadorov feels he can get more than the $5m we are willing to offer.

Of course Petey is the better player I am not arguing that. I said he was the better fit behind Miller. Petey ideally should be our #1 Center but he cannot seem to take that position yet, just as he couldn't take it from Bo either. 

I see Lindholm a way better checker and shutdown guy with some offense, more of a typical #2 Centerman. 

It will be very interesting to see what the end numbers come out for Zadorov. Some think its 5 , some say its closer to 6, we will soon find out.

[DeNiro]

3 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

exactly!!

and fans here say :

“he did that for 3.75 !    We should sign him for 4.25”

“ He’s not worth 5 m , he’s a 5-6 Dman! that would be a nice deal for us “ 

“I love him”.   
 

And then they would play him as a top 4 and every body would say “ we got him at a bargain”  .

 

CDC in a nutshell.. Flea market managers. The only appreciation, worth, and projection they see in a player is his shadow as he walks out the door.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not all fans have the same opinions.  

 

Its not hard to see his value but also seeing that he’s not worth over 5 mil.

 

It’s short sighted to hand him a monster contract because of a stretch of games. We just got off of Myers albatross and we’re already looking to add another?