[ARTICLE] What it might take to sign Nikita Zadorov and if it makes sense for the Canucks

[Madskillz]

3 minutes ago, greenbean30 said:

5 and less would've been perfect. Anything over 5 and you're getting into overpaid territory. 13 games isn't enough to overwrite he's previous 600+ as a #5 d-man, or fringe #4 if you're pushing things.

You can't build a winning team by overpaying and taking personal feelings into it, and that's what PA and JR are trying to do. They valued him at a certain number and weren't going over it, and Zads thinks he can get more. So for now we aren't resigning him, he might swing back if he doesn't get what he thinks he will in Free Agency.

Well said, if he doesn’t sign in time when we find a replacement for cheaper then he will be at lost.  He said he loves this city and was jealous someone else got picked by Canucks that year, so come back make less then u think u should get on the open market and bust your butt and bring this city back a cup and you be remembered and loved more then a mill or two u would make just to spend waste it somehow anyways.

 

Brendon Dillion might be waiting outside Rogers Arena on July 1st a player I would love to have if big Z is gone.

 

 

[Devron]

Just now, MeanSeanBean said:

And he played his best hockey in reduced minutes. Now he'll be payed suitably for those reduced minutes. But saying he hasn't been a. Top 4 defensemen in Vancouver is just false. Whether it was by poor team design or not, he was played as a top 4 defensemen. 

Oh I know he was yes but was it good for him was it good for the team? No I don’t think so otherwise we would have been harder to pay against, we were easy to play against 

[Pianoman]

4 minutes ago, Conscience said:

If you think theyre good deals then good on you.

 
They might be what they could have got on open market but free agency usually leads to bidding wars that drive up price. For 2 rfs and an aging d that we overpaid for 5 years we could have done a bit better. 
 

 11.6 for pete lol dont even get me started. 

There is a model that projects a players cap value for the duration of their contract, and Pettersson is valued at a 300k discount. Yeah it’s just a formula and imperfect, but it gives a good idea. How are you going about determining his value? You haven’t given any comparables for any of those three. If you look around the league at other players recently signed around their cap hits, there are very few I think we would want over them. Unless your argument is that all hockey players are overpaid. Who would you rather have signed instead of them, I’m curious? 

[coho8888]

5 minutes ago, Devron said:

Yep we’ll see what they do here on July.1st but remember those guys will likely be overpaid too, pick your poison 

I mean, I’m not as eager to go after Guentzel as some on here but really when I compare what Benning was doing to what this regime has accomplished, it’s like night and day.  Not just that we are competitive but we generally have a close and cohesive group.  Kind of explains the Myers signing a bit.  He is probably well liked in the dressing room.

[MeanSeanBean]

1 minute ago, Devron said:

Oh I know he was yes but was it good for him was it good for the team? No I don’t think so otherwise we would have been harder to pay against, we were easy to play against 

But I still don't see how you can say he wasn't a top 4 guy in the majority of his time here. He played top 4 minutes, was deployed on the top 4 lines. He's been a top 4 defensemen. It doesn't matter if the team was hard to play against or not, the team was bad for a lot of years, we all know that.

[Pickly]

21 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

DISCOUNT FROM WHAT NUMBER ?

6m ?

And for what did he do for 6 m?

 

Last Season?

what about all the others ?

those were his prime years.

Did not give 6m worth of game.

Cry me a river. He was miscast the moment he got here. Paid like a top 3 because Benning was desperate. Never lived up to his last contract but this past year he played well. Now with competent coaching he played well in a more suitable role. He’s going to be getting paid appropriately from here on out. Plus, it’s Vancouver. It’s hard to lure or convince FA’s to come to Canada. Be thankful a big right shot defenceman who performed well last season decided to take a haircut to stay here. 

[SilentSam]

9 minutes ago, Dizzle said:

Myers won the Calder. He’s always been a good defenceman… even when he was struggling here he was still a top four guy. 

when he was struggling ?

you mean like for 5 years , right ? 
and now he’s 34 and going to be a top pairing D man?

He’s a 5-6 Dman that should really get the money they paid Ian Cole last season.

 

he’s overpaid ,.    And you get to watch it all over again ,  instead of moving on to Zadorov.

Myers was,  by all accounts over the past term of his contract,  an overpaid mistake .…. And it happened again.

[Dizzle]

11 minutes ago, Devron said:

No he has not been. Big part of that was coaching though. That and we tried to make him a no.2 

Yes he has been… but he was never a number 2 that’s for sure. There were plenty of us who recognized he was a good defenseman in a bad system/bad fit. He’s not a top pairing guy, but he is a top 4 guy and has been his entire time with us. 

[Devron]

Just now, coho8888 said:

I mean, I’m not as eager to go after Guentzel as some on here but really when I compare what Benning was doing to what this regime has accomplished, it’s like night and day.  Not just that we are competitive but we generally have a close and cohesive group.  Kind of explains the Myers signing a bit.  He is probably well liked in the dressing room.

I’d almost rather see them sign a Guentzel now that Z is gone. I think we go big. Benning could never go big because of that status of our team so he overpaid the shit out of bottom 6 guys 

[Dizzle]

Just now, SilentSam said:

when he was struggling ?

you mean like for 5 years , right ? 
and now he’s 34 and going to be a top pairing D man?

He’s a 5-6 Dman that should really get the money they paid Ian Cole last season.

 

he’s overpaid ,.    And you get to watch it all over again ,  instead of moving on to Zadorov.

Myers was,  by all accounts over the past term of his contract,  an overpaid mistake .…. And it happened again.

 

 

Why did this coaching group go to bat for him over Z? 

[SilentSam]

1 minute ago, Pickly said:

Cry me a river. He was miscast the moment he got here. Paid like a top 3 because Benning was desperate. Never lived up to his last contract but this past year he played well. Now with competent coaching he played well in a more suitable role. He’s going to be getting paid appropriately from here on out. Plus, it’s Vancouver. It’s hard to lure or convince FA’s to come to Canada. Be thankful a big right shot defenceman who performed well last season decided to take a haircut to stay here. 

No.

and 3 m for Myers is overpay ,  we all get to rinse and repeat .  Yippee

[Devron]

Just now, SilentSam said:

when he was struggling ?

you mean like for 5 years , right ? 
and now he’s 34 and going to be a top pairing D man?

He’s a 5-6 Dman that should really get the money they paid Ian Cole last season.

 

he’s overpaid ,.    And you get to watch it all over again ,  instead of moving on to Zadorov.

Myers was,  by all accounts over the past term of his contract,  an overpaid mistake .…. And it happened again.

Funny when we acquired Z it was thought that he would be Myers replacement for years to come even though he was the other hand. Did not see this coming tbh probably why I’m upset about it. Feels like going backwards to me 

[RWMc1]

28 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

DISCOUNT FROM WHAT NUMBER ?  6m ?

And for what did he do for 6 m?

Last Season?

what about all the others ?

those were his prime years.

Did not give 6m worth of game.

 

Funny you apply that to Myers but not Zadorov.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 04:27 AM by RWMc1

[MeanSeanBean]

1 minute ago, SilentSam said:

when he was struggling ?

you mean like for 5 years , right ? 
and now he’s 34 and going to be a top pairing D man?

He’s a 5-6 Dman that should really get the money they paid Ian Cole last season.

 

he’s overpaid ,.    And you get to watch it all over again ,  instead of moving on to Zadorov.

Myers was,  by all accounts over the past term of his contract,  an overpaid mistake .…. And it happened again.

Pretty sure exactly no one has made that argument.

 

He's being paid like a 4-5 Dman, which is how he was deployed, even last year in diminished minutes. Chatfield just got the same AAV played more then 4 minutes less a night.

[Devron]

2 minutes ago, Dizzle said:

Yes he has been… but he was never a number 2 that’s for sure. There were plenty of us who recognized he was a good defenseman in a bad system/bad fit. He’s not a top pairing guy, but he is a top 4 guy and has been his entire time with us. 

I liked him the first year or two but after while I saw enough. Each to their own though 

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

6 minutes ago, Pianoman said:

There is a model that projects a players cap value for the duration of their contract, and Pettersson is valued at a 300k discount. Yeah it’s just a formula and imperfect, but it gives a good idea. How are you going about determining his value? You haven’t given any comparables for any of those three. If you look around the league at other players recently signed around their cap hits, there are very few I think we would want over them. Unless your argument is that all hockey players are overpaid. Who would you rather have signed instead of them, I’m curious? 

Conscience is determining his value from the injury he sustained and that he didn't play well in the playoffs

[SilentSam]

1 minute ago, Dizzle said:

 

 

Why did this coaching group go to bat for him over Z? 

That’s their mistake and they will realize it.

[Dizzle]

Just now, SilentSam said:

That’s their mistake and they will realize it.

they decided Z was a bottom pairing Defenceman… like 5 other teams in the last 6 years did. 
 

What a bunch of dummies. 

[Canucks164cup]

I hope the Canucks offered atleast 5M that's the highest I would go, he may get 6M hence why he wants to test free agency, sure would be nice if no teams offer him that and Canucks and him do work something out.

[Pickly]

5 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

No.

and 3 m for Myers is overpay ,  we all get to rinse and repeat .  Yippee

Okay we’ll revisit this conversation in 8 months and go from there. 

[SilentSam]

2 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Pretty sure exactly no one has made that argument.

 

He's being paid like a 4-5 Dman, which is how he was deployed, even last year in diminished minutes. Chatfield just got the same AAV played more then 4 minutes less a night.

funny   .. I’ve always looked at a # 4 Dman as a Top Pairing Dman .

He’s not.

But that’s the position he is in as our roster is right now.

But he is not ,  and he should get less anyway because of his game / declining asset and the fact he was paid too much , here , where he is coming back.

 

We needed to move away from this player

[Dizzle]

Just now, SilentSam said:

funny   .. I’ve always looked at a # 4 Dman as a Top Pairing Dman .

He’s not.

But that’s the position he is in as our roster is right now.

But he is not ,  and he should get less anyway because of his game / declining asset and the fact he was paid too much , here , where he is coming back.

 

We needed to move away from this player

[SilentSam]

1 minute ago, Dizzle said:

You don’t think Myers is a declining asset?

[Dizzle]

Just now, SilentSam said:

You don’t think Myers is a declining asset?

You’ve always looked at a top 4 dman as a top pairing dman? 

[Crabcakes]

4 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

And he played his best hockey in reduced minutes. Now he'll be payed suitably for those reduced minutes. But saying he hasn't been a. Top 4 defensemen in Vancouver is just false. Whether it was by poor team design or not, he was played as a top 4 defensemen. 

It's hard to say what Z really is.  He doesn't really have the track record of a top 4 D.  He may have been played as a top 4 D but that was when Soucy was injured.  He played very well during the playoffs but that is a small sample size and you really can't base a good evaluation on 13 games.  I love the way he was playing and I love having a player who plays as heavy as that but Soucy is better and is paid less.  

 

I'm happy that Allvin hasn't caved to Zadorov's demands.  He thinks that if he waited until the very end, that Allvin would have caved.  Credit to Allvin for not doing so.  You just can't overpay for anybody and hope to build a winning team.  Paying too much for players got Benning into all sorts of trouble.

 

We'll see in good time what Z was really after and how it was not a good fit for the team as a whole