[ARTICLE] What it might take to sign Nikita Zadorov and if it makes sense for the Canucks

[HKSR]

23 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Hronrek isn't worth much more than what he's currently getting, imo.  Move him out and allocate his $ elsewhere.

 

I also think DJ has played himself out of van and is replaceable for cheaper

We've gone through this a million times.  He's 26yo, RHD, eats 23min a night, is physical, is mobile, has good IQ, excellent outlet passer, a solid offensive game overall, stands up for his teammates, etc etc.  I really have no idea who you would think could replace that in our top pair.  Don't go telling me you will magically convince whichever UFA you want to come here instead of another contender.  Unless you can guarantee yourself a replacement, it'd be a terrible decision to move Hronek unless he asks for something like $8M.  These kinds of defencemen don't grow on trees.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

We've gone through this a million times.  He's 26yo, RHD, eats 23min a night, is physical, is mobile, has good IQ, excellent outlet passer, a solid offensive game overall, stands up for his teammates, etc etc.  I really have no idea who you would think could replace that in our top pair.  Don't go telling me you will magically convince whichever UFA you want to come here instead of another contender.  Unless you can guarantee yourself a replacement, it'd be a terrible decision to move Hronek unless he asks for something like $8M.  These kinds of defencemen don't grow on trees.

 

He should have taken the $6.5m when it was offered because he's barely had over 10 points since the all star break, including the playoffs.

 

He's good defensively, but not great.  He's a good passer, but not great.  He's good physically, but not great.  Hrs a good skater, but not great.

 

He's a good companion to a great player, but he isn't great himself, so why would they pay him like a great player?

 

If wants and thinks he deserves big money, he hasn't shown that's he's earned it yet.  Offer him 2 years at $6m and let him prove he's worth it.  Otherwise, ship him out

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

He should have taken the $6.5m when it was offered because he's barely had over 10 points since the all star break, including the playoffs.

 

He's good defensively, but not great.  He's a good passer, but not great.  He's good physically, but not great.  Hrs a good skater, but not great.

 

He's a good companion to a great player, but he isn't great himself, so why would they pay him like a great player?

 

If wants and thinks he deserves big money, he hasn't shown that's he's earned it yet.  Offer him 2 years at $6m and let him prove he's worth it.  Otherwise, ship him out

Because great defencemen get paid $8M+.  He's not gonna get that because he is a very good all around defenceman that is only 26yo, but not a great one.  He is right within the market range if he gets around $7M.  

 

Given how his value has dipped recently, I could see him signing a short bridge deal if he is confident in betting on himself.  Personally I don't think he has hit his peak yet.  So I'd rather sign him long term and reap the benefits of when his value is higher than his cap hit.

[canucks curse]

38 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

He should have taken the $6.5m when it was offered because he's barely had over 10 points since the all star break, including the playoffs.

 

He's good defensively, but not great.  He's a good passer, but not great.  He's good physically, but not great.  Hrs a good skater, but not great.

 

He's a good companion to a great player, but he isn't great himself, so why would they pay him like a great player?

 

If wants and thinks he deserves big money, he hasn't shown that's he's earned it yet.  Offer him 2 years at $6m and let him prove he's worth it.  Otherwise, ship him out

agree,

I bet he reinsured his shoulder 

he hasn't taken a slap shot since the regular season ...

Cole, hughes, myers, hronek, are all playing banged up probably miller, Brock, Petey, Lindy too 

the Canucks looked banged up 

Hughes doesn't look himself.

 

650 on Thursday with Dhali said Canucks will aggressively try to move Milkyhev ion the offseason and will use sweetness but not looking to retain.

that sound like they want to re sign lindholm which is a good move.

I just do not think Petey is a winner in the playoffs.

 

To VAN

Pinto (RFA)

Tkachuk (8.2)

Cap savings of 4.5 until pinto is signed 

 

To OTT

Hogz

Petey

 

 

 

Milky dump to anyone = - 4.75 

 

= CAP space of 24.75+ 4.75 +4.5 = 34

 

Lindy 7

Zads 5

Joshua 3.75

Hronek 6.5

Tanev 4.5

Pinto 2.25

Silovs 1.5

Blugger 1.5 

 

 

Cap space  2 million 

 

Brady Miller Brock

Joshua Lindy Garland

---- Pinto Podz

Aman Blugger PDG

 

Hughes Tanev

Zads Hronek

Soucy Juulsen

 

 lack scoring wingers just like now...

 

 

 

Edited May 19 by canucks curse

[Gurn]

Hronek- damaged when we got him, and damaged again?

Or is he not capable of playing a whole season, at a high level?

 

Either way, I'd pay no more than $6 mill for him, per.

[DexM94]

Right now Zadorov > Hronek

i would be okay with Z @ 6x6. Hronek could left his place to Tanev for 3.5x2

re sign Myers @ 4x2 and we're set to turn all the cap to forwards.

we need 3 top 6, two if we re sign Lindholm (i let him walk if he want 7M)
real winger for the Petey line, (Toffoli ?)

real winger for Boeser/Miller (Duchene ?)

 

 

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, DexM94 said:

Right now Zadorov > Hronek

i would be okay with Z @ 6x6. Hronek could left his place to Tanev for 3.5x2

re sign Myers @ 4x2 and we're set to turn all the cap to forwards.

we need 3 top 6, two if we re sign Lindholm (i let him walk if he want 7M)
real winger for the Petey line, (Toffoli ?)

real winger for Boeser/Miller (Duchene ?)

 

 

 

Zad is great, but I don't think paying him that kind of money and term based on a good playoff run is wise.  You have to look at the totality of his play, not just 12 games, imo.  

 

With the OEL buyout really kicking in, every dollar is going to count.

[Gurn]

15 minutes ago, stawns said:

With the OEL buyout really kicking in, every dollar is going to count.

This.^

going to be a much different team after the OEL hit is gone.

Likely to lose 3 or 4 really good players, due to the $4, 766,667 hit.

Hope they can keep enough experienced guys around, that the team doesn't have to go through the 'get play off experience/learning curve' again.

[RWJC]

5.5 x 5 is top end and fair for what we need from Zadorov. It’s also not too difficult a price point to move going forward against cap increases if the relationship soured.

 

Imho, Hronek’s top end is 7 given his trajectory has remained a straight line despite playing with QH. As mentioned I’d have wanted  to see him run his own line before committing to term and MNTC at a high salary.

 

the fact is salaries will increase and with any quality RFA we are looking at buying up UFA years which means your AAV is going to be a bit higher to do so. Look at the BUF model and paying larger sums over term for core/future pieces. That’s the way it goes now. Anybody thinking they can purchase future for yesterdays prices has their head in the sand.

[RWJC]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

 

He should have taken the $6.5m when it was offered because he's barely had over 10 points since the all star break, including the playoffs.

 

He's good defensively, but not great.  He's a good passer, but not great.  He's good physically, but not great.  Hrs a good skater, but not great.

 

He's a good companion to a great player, but he isn't great himself, so why would they pay him like a great player?

 

If wants and thinks he deserves big money, he hasn't shown that's he's earned it yet.  Offer him 2 years at $6m and let him prove he's worth it.  Otherwise, ship him out

We just finished paying Myers 6x6 and that deal was signed in 2019.

Mind you he was UFA and that adds a premium to it, plus JB was a bit desperate.

 

Enter 6 years later and look at comparison of career numbers. Then add inflation. Add an increase in taxable income. Also weigh in that Hronek is RFA and we’re buying his prime. It’s almost a forgone conclusion he’s going to get 7 from someone unless there is another injury lingering we don’t know about. 
 

can 7-8 mill be used to better our D and improve upon him? Perhaps.

but you’re going to be paying the same for someone of similar talent level and age and pedigree. So for those thinking he’s a 6 mil player, who’s your replacement and how do you achieve it? Is it a lateral trade and with whom? Is it via UFA at inflated prices and competition and then who is that target? 
 

throwing numbers around about value really doesn’t amount to much unless you have contingency thought out to go along with it.

 

[RWJC]

55 minutes ago, DexM94 said:

Right now Zadorov > Hronek

i would be okay with Z @ 6x6. Hronek could left his place to Tanev for 3.5x2

re sign Myers @ 4x2 and we're set to turn all the cap to forwards.

we need 3 top 6, two if we re sign Lindholm (i let him walk if he want 7M)
real winger for the Petey line, (Toffoli ?)

real winger for Boeser/Miller (Duchene ?)

 

 

I think Tanev comes in higher than that from almost every suitor. Can see Dallas giving him 4.5-5 x 2 given what he’s brought to their D in the playoffs. 

[stawns]

16 minutes ago, Gurn said:

This.^

going to be a much different team after the OEL hit is gone.

Likely to lose 3 or 4 really good players, due to the $4, 766,667 hit.

Hope they can keep enough experienced guys around, that the team doesn't have to go through the 'get play off experience/learning curve' again.

 

It's going to tough to maintain the depth needed to be successful.  Petey is my favourite Canuck, but that's why I probably would have moved him........top heavy teams don't, generally, go too far and now they're on the hook for OEL for a long time to come.

[Gurn]

Top 26 free agent d men for next year

Canucks have 3 of them.

1. TJ Brodie	TOR	34	LD/RD	Left	78	1	25	26	0.33	17	52	0.02	21:43	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$5,000,000	$7,500,000
2. Tyler Myers	VAN	34	RD	Right	77	5	24	29	0.38	16	93	0.05	18:56	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
3. Alec Martinez	VGK	36	LD	Left	55	4	13	17	0.31	-2	72	0.06	19:02	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$5,250,000	$5,750,000
4. Brady Skjei	CAR	30	LD	Left	80	13	34	47	0.59	15	185	0.07	21:16	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$5,250,000	$5,400,000
5. Brandon Montour	FLA	30	RD	Right	66	8	25	33	0.50	1	168	0.05	23:26	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,500,000	$5,250,000
6. Tyson Barrie	NSH	32	RD	Right	41	1	14	15	0.37	-10	65	0.02	18:19	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$4,500,000	$5,000,000
7. Christopher Tanev	DAL	34	RD	Right	75	2	17	19	0.25	22	56	0.04	19:41	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$4,500,000	$4,500,000
8. Nikita Zaitsev	CHI	32	RD	Right	38	2	5	7	0.18	-5	31	0.06	15:55	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$4,500,000	$4,500,000
9. Matt Grzelcyk	BOS	30	LD	Left	63	2	9	11	0.17	13	59	0.03	17:35	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,687,500	$4,250,000
10. Matt Roy	LAK	29	RD	Right	81	5	20	25	0.31	21	135	0.04	20:53	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,150,000	$4,200,000
11. John Klingberg	TOR	31	RD	Right	14	0	5	5	0.36	-7	14	0.00	20:33	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$4,150,000	$4,150,000
12. Shayne Gostisbehere	DET	31	LD/RD	Left	81	10	46	56	0.69	-16	139	0.07	19:05	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$4,125,000	$4,125,000
13. Brett Pesce	CAR	29	RD	Right	70	3	10	13	0.19	10	107	0.03	20:17	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$4,025,000	$4,025,000
14. Brenden Dillon	WPG	33	LD	Left	77	8	12	20	0.26	20	79	0.10	18:44	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,900,000	$4,000,000
15. Matt Dumba	TBL	29	RD	Right	76	4	8	12	0.16	-18	86	0.05	19:44	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,900,000	$3,900,000
16. Nikita Zadorov	VAN	29	LD/RD	Left	75	6	14	20	0.27	0	90	0.07	17:26	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,750,000	$3,750,000
17. Dylan DeMelo	WPG	31	RD	Right	82	3	28	31	0.38	46	83	0.04	21:43	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$3,000,000	$3,500,000
18. Derek Forbort	BOS	32	LD	Left	35	0	4	4	0.11	8	22	0.00	17:47	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$3,000,000	$3,500,000
19. Sean Walker	COL	29	LD/RD	Right	81	10	19	29	0.36	11	150	0.07	19:13	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,650,000	$3,350,000
20. Erik Johnson	PHI	36	RD	Right	67	5	1	6	0.09	-14	60	0.08	14:28	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,250,000	$3,250,000
21. Joel Edmundson	TOR	31	LD/RD	Left	53	1	5	6	0.11	-2	46	0.02	16:40	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$3,500,000	$3,187,500
22. Marco Scandella	STL	34	LD	Left	65	2	6	8	0.12	2	42	0.05	12:28	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$3,275,000	$3,000,000
23. Ian Cole	VAN	35	LD/RD	Left	78	2	9	11	0.14	10	61	0.03	18:41	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,000,000	$3,000,000
24. Justin Schultz	SEA	33	RD	Right	70	7	19	26	0.37	-23	100	0.07	16:28	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$3,000,000	$3,000,000
25. Ilya Lyubushkin	TOR	30	RD	Right	74	0	8	8	0.11	-11	47	0.00	17:07	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,750,000	$2,750,000
26. Oliver Kylington	CGY	27	LD/RD	Left	33	3	5	8	0.24	-6	42	0.07	17:14	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,500,000	$2,500,000

[Gurn]

Of that list ^

Tanev--------- risky, given injury history

Roy

Klingberg------ risky, given injury history

Ghost---------- didn't this guy miss a lot of time due to injury?

Kylington------he's back, his head is in the game, and he was on his way to being a top notch dman, before his year long 'timeout'

Pesce

 

are possible fits, hopefully for a short to mid term.

 

If Zads, and Myers sign elsewhere, then Nucks are almost certain to bring back Hronek but I wonder if there is a trade do able:

Hronek for a D man than was  highly drafted in the last couple of years, but has yet to really make a team?

 

[Coconuts]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

 

Zad is great, but I don't think paying him that kind of money and term based on a good playoff run is wise.  You have to look at the totality of his play, not just 12 games, imo.  

 

With the OEL buyout really kicking in, every dollar is going to count.

 

6x6 would be a huge head scratcher

 

Many teams have played players for runs, I'd rather not be one of them

[stawns]

31 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

6x6 would be a huge head scratcher

 

Many teams have played players for runs, I'd rather not be one of them

 

Now, I think he's going to get a good raise on his current salary, but not a $2+ million raise..........not for that kind of term anyway.  Term or AAV, I think if he wants to be in Van, he's got to choose one or the other 

[Provost]

All this hand wringing is worth discussing, but let’s not lose track of the fact we are finally worrying about losing players who are good and how to keep a winning team.

 

That is miles away from being stuck with a bunch of bad contracts, being capped out, and being one of the worst teams in the league.

 

There are at least paths to continued success this offseason.  If you can move Mikheyev and Hronek (if his ask is too much), there is cap to fill holes.

 

The danger to avoid is overpaying career year players and getting stuck with bad contracts again.

 

It took teams like Tampa a few years of playoffs runs to identify gaps and tweak their roster.  We will have had the chance to see who is built for it and who isn’t.

 

I have been a Mikheyev supporter and saying we need to give him an offseason to train without being hampered by recovery.  This playoffs has shown that he likely isn’t a piece to keep moving forward.  He is good but doesn’t have that compete level to play the style Tocchet wants, doesn’t fit the system and doesn’t mesh with any of our top six forwards.

 

I absolutely foresee a world where we can package a very valuable asset like Hronek with Mikheyev and get a really good power forward top six winger back.  That kind of deal leaves us the money to still rebuild the defence.

 

 

[The Brock Star]

3 hours ago, Gurn said:

Of that list ^

Tanev--------- risky, given injury history

Roy

Klingberg------ risky, given injury history

Ghost---------- didn't this guy miss a lot of time due to injury?

Kylington------he's back, his head is in the game, and he was on his way to being a top notch dman, before his year long 'timeout'

Pesce

 

are possible fits, hopefully for a short to mid term.

 

If Zads, and Myers sign elsewhere, then Nucks are almost certain to bring back Hronek but I wonder if there is a trade do able:

Hronek for a D man than was  highly drafted in the last couple of years, but has yet to really make a team?

 

I'd be good taking a flyer on most of those, but huge no to Klingberg. He was a disaster in Toronto before he got injured. I'm not sure any team is willing to gamble on him at this point.

[fuzzy]

I think people are overlooking the impact of the Coyotes moving to Utah. The NHL will see a massive increase in revenue as a result and the cap will rise significantly.  If you  have to give up term to keep the short term cap hit reasonable, do it. 

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, fuzzy said:

I think people are overlooking the impact of the Coyotes moving to Utah. The NHL will see a massive increase in revenue as a result and the cap will rise significantly.  If you  have to give up term to keep the short term cap hit reasonable, do it. 

 

Why would Utah make a difference on the salary cap?

[fuzzy]

The cap is based on league revenue from the previous year. Arizona was a huge financial drain on the league. They couldn't fill a 4500 seat college arena and attendance is still a major driver of league revenue. Other factors such as merchandising, corporate spononships, and major buzz in a new market will also have a positive impact.

 

It will be interesting to see Bettman's state of the NHL press conference during the finals. The anticipated cap increase was released well before the Coyote's relocation was announced. I wouldn't be surprised if the cap increases even more next year.

Edited May 19 by fuzzy

[Hammertime]

2 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

6x6 would be a huge head scratcher

 

Many teams have played players for runs, I'd rather not be one of them

Hmm I'd rather pay players that show up in the post season than ones who dont 

[NHL97OneTimer]

5 hours ago, fuzzy said:

I think people are overlooking the impact of the Coyotes moving to Utah. The NHL will see a massive increase in revenue as a result and the cap will rise significantly.  If you  have to give up term to keep the short term cap hit reasonable, do it. 

I'm not one to know these things, but I have heard that there is a maximum amount that the cap can go up in one year and it's expected to do just that over the next couple of years.  If we don't get a few guys signed for team-friendly discounts or find diamonds in the rough, this team will be going backwards....or at least stall the development for a couple of years.  Boeser's salary is coming up too.

 

Can they trade OEL's cap hit?  It would be ridiculous to do so given the price of what that would be, but those two years after next season are really going to sting.  It's possible that they could keep Hronek, Joshua, Zadorov and Lindholm if they could trade Mikheyev and the OEL hit away but that would nuke the future or be a GM of the century move.

 

[N4ZZY]

17 hours ago, canucks curse said:

I just do not think Petey is a winner in the playoffs.

 

based off of what? 

 

 

[N4ZZY]

7 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

I'm not one to know these things, but I have heard that there is a maximum amount that the cap can go up in one year and it's expected to do just that over the next couple of years.  If we don't get a few guys signed for team-friendly discounts or find diamonds in the rough, this team will be going backwards....or at least stall the development for a couple of years.  Boeser's salary is coming up too.

 

Can they trade OEL's cap hit?  It would be ridiculous to do so given the price of what that would be, but those two years after next season are really going to sting.  It's possible that they could keep Hronek, Joshua, Zadorov and Lindholm if they could trade Mikheyev and the OEL hit away but that would nuke the future or be a GM of the century move.

 

I've just come to accept that this year's version of the Canucks is going to be the best that we'll see the next 3-4 years. Two of those years will be when OEL's cap hit will be at its highest on the team. I'm not looking forward to that at all.