[ARTICLE] What it might take to sign Nikita Zadorov and if it makes sense for the Canucks

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Are you sure about that? Or are you speaking for the team?

 

Well, of there wasn't, he'd be signed by now, no?  They've got a little over a month to get it done and if they can't  they have less time to make a deal to move him 

 

He can apply for arbitration on July 5

[Rip The Mesh]

1 hour ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

I was going to post Zad at low $5 range yesterday. Anything between $5 and 5.5, which would be almost $2 mill more than he's making now.

 

We can't wind back to the past ten years of overpayments. Fans really need to be prepared to let some guys walk. I'm not saying we let Big Z walk but we really need to be careful. Every guy can't be overpaid. That includes Hronek. I'm more confident in this management than last. They are focused on the team.

 

We just can't have it both ways. There needs to be a line in the sand.

 

 

 

 

Good post. Fan favorite but he's not worth more then 5 based on talent. Thing is; he has been "THE" main Canucks enforcer, and it's helped.

Damn you Benning for that OEL situation. 

[SuchaNuxtalgia]

At least Big-Z is durable, with intimidating presence(to opposing wingers flyin into zone)

 

Sick & tired of key D banged up at important times of season.

[fuzzy]

5 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Good post. Fan favorite but he's not worth more then 5 based on talent. Thing is; he has been "THE" main Canucks enforcer, and it's helped.

Damn you Benning for that OEL situation. 

I would  rather have Zadorov at 5 mil and Myers at 3mil than  Hronek at 8 mil.

[MikeBossy]

2 minutes ago, fuzzy said:

I would  rather have Zadorov at 5 mil and Myers at 3mil than  Hronek at 8 mil.

The thing to look at is who excelled in the playoffs and you are bang on with Myers and Zadorov. Hronek may be pricing himself out of playing here - we dodged that bullet with Horvat and honestly worst case we have him for a year and move him for assets and he becomes another team's problem. Hronek doesn't make or break this team I am not so sure if we don't bring Myers and Big Z back.

[Dr. Crossbar]

Just now, Rip The Mesh said:

Good post. Fan favorite but he's not worth more then 5 based on talent. Thing is; he has been "THE" main Canucks enforcer, and it's helped.

Damn you Benning for that OEL situation. 

 

I'm as big a fan of Big Z as anyone. He's exactly what we need more of on this team in play, physicality, and attitude. And I do understand the overpayment with him and believe we need to find a way to make this work for both player and team. This is exactly the culture we need.

 

One thing to consider is that we haven't seen Big Z struggle yet. That is going to happen. We need to remember that he's a third pairing D who has a history of being wild, coughing up the puck a lot, and taking penalties. If and when that happens, the money simply needs to reflect that. We all knew Myers shouldn't have been making $6 given his tendencies to do the same thing. Just something that needs to be thought about.

 

In saying that, though, look at what Gonchgar and Foote did with Myers. That goes in Z's favor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

I'm as big a fan of Big Z as anyone. He's exactly what we need more of on this team in play, physicality, and attitude. And I do understand the overpayment with him and believe we need to find a way to make this work for both player and team. This is exactly the culture we need.

 

One thing to consider is that we haven't seen Big Z struggle yet. That is going to happen. We need to remember that he's a third pairing D who has a history of being wild, coughing up the puck a lot, and taking penalties. If and when that happens, the money simply needs to reflect that. We all knew Myers shouldn't have been making $6 given his tendencies to do the same thing. Just something that needs to be thought about.

 

In saying that, though, look at what Gonchgar and Foote did with Myers. That goes in Z's favor.

This. A truly excellent coaching staff, which the Canucks have, works wonders with players and their performance.

[Gurn]

10 minutes ago, fuzzy said:

would  rather have Zadorov at 5 mil and Myers at 3mil than  Hronek at 8 mil.

Yes.

[fuzzy]

10 minutes ago, fuzzy said:

I would  rather have Zadorov at 5 mil and Myers at 3mil than  Hronek at 8 mil.

Having said that we could have all 3 factoring Coles cap hit.

[old guy]

4 minutes ago, MikeBossy said:

The thing to look at is who excelled in the playoffs and you are bang on with Myers and Zadorov. Hronek may be pricing himself out of playing here - we dodged that bullet with Horvat and honestly worst case we have him for a year and move him for assets and he becomes another team's problem. Hronek doesn't make or break this team I am not so sure if we don't bring Myers and Big Z back.

I agree with what you're saying, BUT, Myers seems to look good in contract seasons. #M I could accept.(like it matters-lol)

[RupertKBD]

23 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Well, of there wasn't, he'd be signed by now, no?  They've got a little over a month to get it done and if they can't  they have less time to make a deal to move him 

 

He can apply for arbitration on July 5

 

I don't know. I really have no idea how long this sort of thing takes, especially considering the number of FAs the Canucks have.

 

Maybe you're correct, but I think it's a bit of a leap to say "It's been a week and a half. Obviously that means the team doesn't want to pay that much".

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, old guy said:

I agree with what you're saying, BUT, Myers seems to look good in contract seasons. #M I could accept.(like it matters-lol)

While I think that a contract year plays into it, I do think having a full year with Tocchet, Foote, and Gonchar is the true impetus of the improvement.

[stawns]

15 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I don't know. I really have no idea how long this sort of thing takes, especially considering the number of FAs the Canucks have.

 

Maybe you're correct, but I think it's a bit of a leap to say "It's been a week and a half. Obviously that means the team doesn't want to pay that much".

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, he turned down their first offer not long after the all star break, did he not?  They didn't just start talking to him after game 7.  This has been going on for months.

 

As far as this contract goes, it's getting close to midnight

[AlexanderM]

23 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I don't know. I really have no idea how long this sort of thing takes, especially considering the number of FAs the Canucks have.

 

Maybe you're correct, but I think it's a bit of a leap to say "It's been a week and a half. Obviously that means the team doesn't want to pay that much".

They made the contract offer to Hronek in early March, if they can't sign him for a number that makes sense he will be dealt, I expect PA to get this done, one way or the other, fairly quickly. I have no problem if he gets traded, as long as it's a good deal. 

[RupertKBD]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, he turned down their first offer not long after the all star break, did he not?  They didn't just start talking to him after game 7.  This has been going on for months.

 

As far as this contract goes, it's getting close to midnight

Kind of a lowball offer and from what I can gather, they haven't had any discussions since.

 

Anyway, I don't see a lot of point in speculating. We'll find out soon enough if he signs or walks....I'm just not convinced that will be tomorrow.

[RupertKBD]

2 minutes ago, AlexanderM said:

They made the contract offer to Hronek in early March, if they can't sign him for a number that makes sense he will be dealt, I expect PA to get this done, one way or the other, fairly quickly. I have no problem if he gets traded, as long as it's a good deal. 

 

I don't disagree, but we were discussing Zadorov....

[stawns]

26 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

Kind of a lowball offer and from what I can gather, they haven't had any discussions since.

 

Anyway, I don't see a lot of point in speculating. We'll find out soon enough if he signs or walks....I'm just not convinced that will be tomorrow.

 

And don't you surmise, then, that that is what the Canucks value him at in terms of his contributions to the team?

[AlexanderM]

53 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I don't disagree, but we were discussing Zadorov....

I assumed you were talking about Hronek because I'd missed we made an offer to Zadorov, I'm assuming that just happened, the updates I saw are from 1-2 days ago. Seems to me that PA always goes in low, he did that with Miller and Horvat. 

Edited May 29 by AlexanderM

[RupertKBD]

46 minutes ago, stawns said:

And don't you surmise, then, that that is what the Canucks value him at in terms of his contributions to the team?

 

I think their estimates might have changed since the start of the playoffs

Edited May 29 by RupertKBD

[RupertKBD]

20 minutes ago, AlexanderM said:

I assumed you were talking about Hronek because I'd missed we made an offer to Zadorov, I'm assuming that just happened, the updates I saw are from 1-2 days ago. Seems to me that PA always goes in low, he did that with Miller and Horvat. 

 

It happened before the playoffs, according to what I've read.

 

I think most GM's start off with a lowball offer. Maybe they expected a counter offer and didn't get one? I don't know.

[Diamonds]

2 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

As well...who cares what Columbus pays Gudbranson?  They're a lotter pick team.  They need *somebody* on their blueline.  There isn't anything hockey related that Gubranson does better than Zadorov.  I don't see how the comparison is relevant (my POV).

I brought it up because I've seen a number of posts praising Zadorov and making a snide remark about Gudbranson.

 

Here's why the comparison is relevant:

Both are large defensemen known most for their above average skating for their size and physical accumen. Both are also known more for their defense than offense. Likewise, both have been used similarly over their careers with similar average ice-times (Gudbranson 18:36 aTOI and Zadorov 18:05 aTOI). Both are well-known for their leadership attributes. They are both career 4/5 defensemen. Both have their contracts up near the end of their primes (Gudbranson 30, Zadorov 29).

 

How do they differ? Gudbranson has always played a bigger PK role than Zadorov. Zadorov has a slightly higher career PPG (Gudbranson actually outscored him this season though). Gudbranson is a RHD and Zadorov is a LHD. 

 

Only two seasons ago they were on the same team. That makes the comparison more relevant because Gudbranson was played harder and more minutes at the time. Yes, Zadorov's game very well may have grown since then but he still played less with Vancouver this season than Gudbranson has every season but his rookie season and one 7 game stretch with Pittsburgh 5 seasons ago.

 

Continuing to try and say they are drastically different players honestly just continues to prove my point.

 

We all love Zadorov, but trying to claim he's a different player than he has shown to be his entire career based on one good playoffs is not a recipe for success. Maybe Zadorov truly did find another level and he's able to be a consistent top 4 defenseman the next few seasons. But, his history has shown otherwise and I don't think that's a very smart bet. Bet on him continuing to be a 4/5 caliber defenseman and be excited if he can actually play consistently like a top 4, not pay him like a top 4 and get frustrated when he turns out to still be a 4/5. Yes, I would still pay more for Zadorov than Gudbranson but not drastically so.

[AlexanderM]

3 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

We all love Zadorov, but trying to claim he's a different player than he has shown to be his entire career based on one good playoffs is not a recipe for success. 

We absolutely can pay a player just on the basis that we know they will step up in the playoffs. Beyond that, he provides growl in the regular season and I would think makes the whole team feel more confident in the toughness department. He also skates incredibly well for a man his size. 

[stawns]

36 minutes ago, AlexanderM said:

I assumed you were talking about Hronek because I'd missed we made an offer to Zadorov, I'm assuming that just happened, the updates I saw are from 1-2 days ago. Seems to me that PA always goes in low, he did that with Miller and Horvat. 

 

Yup, me too

[stawns]

15 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

It happened before the playoffs, according to what I've read.

 

I think most GM's start off with a lowball offer. Maybe they expected a counter offer and didn't get one? I don't know.

 

16 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

It happened before the playoffs, according to what I've read.

 

I think most GM's start off with a lowball offer. Maybe they expected a counter offer and didn't get one? I don't know.

 

[HKSR]

39 minutes ago, AlexanderM said:

Seems to me that PA always goes in low, he did that with Miller and Horvat. 

A very normal method of negotiation.  Only a moron would walk into a negotiation and offer exactly what they want the final price to be lmao.