[ARTICLE] What it might take to sign Nikita Zadorov and if it makes sense for the Canucks

[RupertKBD]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

 

 Wait...what? You thought I was talking about Hronek?

 

Aren't we in the Zadorov thread?

 

Edit: Now I've gone back through and saw your mention of Arbitration. That should have been my first clue....

Edited May 29 by RupertKBD

[stawns]

10 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 Wait...what? You thought I was talking about Hronek?

 

Aren't we in the Zadorov thread?

 

Edit: Now I've gone back through and saw your mention of Arbitration. That should have been my first clue....

 

I think because we were talking about arbitration and hronek is the one eligible for arb!

 

Blooper reel!

[RupertKBD]

FTR, I think we're in a tough spot with Honker. My guess is that he'll get 7+ million in arbitration and then walk as a UFA the following season....unless we can somehow find a trade out there....

[AlexanderM]

24 minutes ago, HKSR said:

A very normal method of negotiation.  Only a moron would walk into a negotiation and offer exactly what they want the final price to be lmao.

He pissed Horvat right off and I'm OK with how it turned out, but there are times that it isn't the best idea. I don't see that with Zadorov, the offer was fine, hope they work it out, PA comes up a bit, sounds like it's mostly about term. 

[AlexanderM]

4 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

FTR, I think we're in a tough spot with Honker. My guess is that he'll get 7+ million in arbitration and then walk as a UFA the following season....unless we can somehow find a trade out there....

I expect him to either be signed or dealt prior to any of that. I'm fine if he gets dealt, but either way.

[RupertKBD]

11 minutes ago, stawns said:

I think because we were talking about arbitration and hronek is the one eligible for arb!

 

Blooper reel!

 

Gotta be honest...when I saw you mention arb, I was thinking "WTF is he talking about? Zadorov is a UFA"

[AlexanderM]

25 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

 

25 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 Wait...what? You thought I was talking about Hronek?

 

Aren't we in the Zadorov thread?

 

Edit: Now I've gone back through and saw your mention of Arbitration. That should have been my first clue....

I thought it was really clear, but no worries, it's all good. 

 

They need to add a clear editor button.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, AlexanderM said:

He pissed Horvat right off and I'm OK with how it turned out, but there are times that it isn't the best idea. I don't see that with Zadorov, the offer was fine, hope they work it out, PA comes up a bit, sounds like it's mostly about term. 

And it’s good we again have a prickly pear as GM. Those Benning (the moran) years were terrible got our club. PA stays in touch with guys like Hronek. But he needs have an inner cap to follow. There is no way PA gives Hronek (in yearly cap allocation) as much as Hughes. 
Hronek is worth Devon Towes’s contract. 

[RupertKBD]

6 minutes ago, AlexanderM said:

 

I thought it was really clear, but no worries, it's all good. 

 

They need to add a clear editor button.

 

This was the post of mine that started the conversation. (Stawns replied to it)

 

3 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

Also, I think maybe some folks are looking at these contract negotiations the wrong way. It isn't some arbitrary number and term that you think the player is worth....it's what he can get on the open market.

 

It's all well and good to say, "let him walk" if he wants more than you believe he's worth, but if someone else pays him that much, then he's worth it. Now you're at the point where you say, "No problem. We'll just sign player X for this amount of money and this term". Well, what if that player wants more than you think he's worth?

 

We can debate about whether Z is going to get better at age 29, but the one thing we know, is that he's not going to get smaller. Nor is he going to get less inclined to lay big hits on opposing forwards. In a nutshell, he's the kind of player the team needs if they're going to compete with teams like Vegas and Dallas, instead of being pushed around like they did in past seasons.

 

I don't think that Z's combination of size, physicality, speed and finesse are easily replaced at all and I believe PA will make an offer based on what the market dictates.....which in my estimation, is going to be more than many here are comfortable with.

 

Personally, I'm hoping they can work something out.

 

As you can see, I mention "Z" a couple of times....

[VegasCanuck]

9 hours ago, stawns said:

 

And I think the team that gives him that regrets it in short order 

That's possible, I think there's a REALLY good argument that teams, at some point, regret close to 50% of the Substantive contracts they give out on July 1st.

 

The thing is, if you sign a guy for a big contract and he helps you win the cup in the first couple of years and then his performance tanks, then the contract kind of gets swept under the rug. It's a vicious business on and off the ice and GM's who are paid to push the limits often lose their jobs over the fact that they pushed the limit and a new GM comes in to clean up the mess and then push the limit in a whole different way.

 

If I look at some of the trades Vegas made in the last 2 or 3 years, I'm shaking my head. However, they have a Stanley Cup in their first few years and after 50 years, we still don't.

 

My personal look at Zadorov is, he's a valuable piece of this team and he's the type of guy that you win with in playoffs. He's the physical component that tips a final in your favor. If our objective is to win the cup, I think I'd try and play it as, 6 years at 5 million per, or if he really wants 6 million then I'd try and do that for 3 - 4 years to avoid the longer term implications of that hit.

 

Things to consider, barring another massive outbreak of a virus, the cap will continue to increase for the foreseeable future. 4 years from now, it should be over 100 million, at which point you ask yourself, is 6 million committed to Zadorov a reasonable expense if you lock him into that now. That's what happened with Myers, but unfortunately, the upward motion of the cap collapsed and we suffered the consequences.

 

[PhillipBlunt]

 

This thread in the last little while 

Edited May 30 by PhillipBlunt

[Junkyard Dog]

4 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

FTR, I think we're in a tough spot with Honker. My guess is that he'll get 7+ million in arbitration and then walk as a UFA the following season....unless we can somehow find a trade out there....

 

Someone could try an offer sheet. 

 

We'd get a 1st, 2nd and 3rd if we didn't accept the offer sheet in the range of $6,435,187 - $8,580,250.

 

We'd be getting back our 1st and 2nd from the Wings trade but we'd gain a 3rd and a 4th.

 

Ideally though if we had to move on from Hronek we'd probably want players back. A 1st, 2nd and 3rd are decent assets for trade but we'd be at the whims of the trade market and some teams might want a RD over picks for certain assets. 

 

 

 

 

Question to everybody. Can you trade a player who has accepted an offer sheet? I am generally curious. 

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

35 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

 

Someone could try an offer sheet. 

 

We'd get a 1st, 2nd and 3rd if we didn't accept the offer sheet in the range of $6,435,187 - $8,580,250.

 

We'd be getting back our 1st and 2nd from the Wings trade but we'd gain a 3rd and a 4th.

 

Ideally though if we had to move on from Hronek we'd probably want players back. A 1st, 2nd and 3rd are decent assets for trade but we'd be at the whims of the trade market and some teams might want a RD over picks for certain assets. 

 

 

 

 

Question to everybody. Can you trade a player who has accepted an offer sheet? I am generally curious. 

 

 

I’d think so. Didn’t Shea Weber get offersheeted by Philadelphia and then Poile signed him shortly thereafter?

[fuzzy]

8 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

Also, I think maybe some folks are looking at these contract negotiations the wrong way. It isn't some arbitrary number and term that you think the player is worth....it's what he can get on the open market.

 

It's all well and good to say, "let him walk" if he wants more than you believe he's worth, but if someone else pays him that much, then he's worth it. Now you're at the point where you say, "No problem. We'll just sign player X for this amount of money and this term". Well, what if that player wants more than you think he's worth?

 

We can debate about whether Z is going to get better at age 29, but the one thing we know, is that he's not going to get smaller. Nor is he going to get less inclined to lay big hits on opposing forwards. In a nutshell, he's the kind of player the team needs if they're going to compete with teams like Vegas and Dallas, instead of being pushed around like they did in past seasons.

 

I don't think that Z's combination of size, physicality, speed and finesse are easily replaced at all and I believe PA will make an offer based on what the market dictates.....which in my estimation, is going to be more than many here are comfortable with.

 

Personally, I'm hoping they can work something out.

This!

[Junkyard Dog]

4 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I’d think so. Didn’t Shea Weber get offersheeted by Philadelphia and then Poile signed him shortly thereafter?

 

Nah what I mean is lets say Hronek got an offer-sheet. Could we trade him for assets to someone willing to sign the offer-sheet instead if they were willing to give assets greater than the compensation?

Edited May 30 by Junkyard Dog

[fuzzy]

3 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

That's possible, I think there's a REALLY good argument that teams, at some point, regret close to 50% of the Substantive contracts they give out on July 1st.

 

The thing is, if you sign a guy for a big contract and he helps you win the cup in the first couple of years and then his performance tanks, then the contract kind of gets swept under the rug. It's a vicious business on and off the ice and GM's who are paid to push the limits often lose their jobs over the fact that they pushed the limit and a new GM comes in to clean up the mess and then push the limit in a whole different way.

 

If I look at some of the trades Vegas made in the last 2 or 3 years, I'm shaking my head. However, they have a Stanley Cup in their first few years and after 50 years, we still don't.

 

My personal look at Zadorov is, he's a valuable piece of this team and he's the type of guy that you win with in playoffs. He's the physical component that tips a final in your favor. If our objective is to win the cup, I think I'd try and play it as, 6 years at 5 million per, or if he really wants 6 million then I'd try and do that for 3 - 4 years to avoid the longer term implications of that hit.

 

Things to consider, barring another massive outbreak of a virus, the cap will continue to increase for the foreseeable future. 4 years from now, it should be over 100 million, at which point you ask yourself, is 6 million committed to Zadorov a reasonable expense if you lock him into that now. That's what happened with Myers, but unfortunately, the upward motion of the cap collapsed and we suffered the consequences.

 

I agree . We have an advantage resigning our own free agents. If it's a player we have identified  as a key piece and we want to keep them, then we will.  We can and should weaponize  the extra year of term we can offer and lock up our key free agents

 

Zadorov -5 or 6mil x 8

Lindholm-  6 or 7 mil x 8 

Hronek- 7 or 8 mil x 8

Joshua- 2 mil x 8 

 

If you want to keep them then just do it. The last 4 years of term are irrelevant 

 

 

 

[Hammertime]

14 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

July 1st on the open market, Zadorov gets really close to 6 million if he's still available. 

 

He would likely take less to stay here if we throw enough term at him.

4mx8 or 6mx5

Edited May 30 by Hammertime

[N4ZZY]

53 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

4mx8 or 6mx5

I can't see Allvin giving Zadorov 6M. 

 

I think it won't be 5M, but it'll be close, maybe 4.75M over 7 years? 

 

Does he take that, with some sort of modified trade protection? 

 

[Hammertime]

17 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

I can't see Allvin giving Zadorov 6M. 

 

I think it won't be 5M, but it'll be close, maybe 4.75M over 7 years? 

 

Does he take that, with some sort of modified trade protection? 

 

That's more than 6x5 though and also more than 4x8. 

 

I'd maybe consider 4.25x7 

[canucks curse]

Nashville getting ready to sign Zads to 6x6

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, canucks curse said:

Nashville getting ready to sign Zads to 6x6

Isn’t Barry Trotz their GM? Can’t see him spending so much on Big Z. 

[Bob Long]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Isn’t Barry Trotz their GM? Can’t see him spending so much on Big Z. 

 

Sometimes GM's fall in love with the players that beat up their team. Benning Ferland. 

[Captain insano]

Zadorov clearly really cares about where he wants to be, I think it’s safe to assume Vancouver is top of his list, he’s playing hardball guys he’s gunna get resigned around 5-5.25 on a 5-7 year deal which in my opinion zadorov is just peaking now and worth every penny for what he brings in the post season 

[stawns]

3 hours ago, Captain insano said:

Zadorov clearly really cares about where he wants to be, I think it’s safe to assume Vancouver is top of his list, he’s playing hardball guys he’s gunna get resigned around 5-5.25 on a 5-7 year deal which in my opinion zadorov is just peaking now and worth every penny for what he brings in the post season 

 

It'll be Zad or Hronek, but not both I think.  That's probably what they're wrestling with ATM.  Which ever player gives them the better value deal and shows he wants to be here more likely gets the deal.

[Combover]

As per the province 

Hronek is a restricted free agent, so the Canucks control most of the story. They can make a qualifying offer to retain his rights, but he does have arbitration rights and it's expected he would win a one- or two-year contract worth at least $7 million per season if he did.

 

so maybe arbitration might be the way to go. 

Hronek won’t be getting the 8 mill sone seem to think 

Hopefully get Zad for around at 5x5 or 5x6 

 

lindholm might be an impossibility fingers crossed PA can work some magic and het him back