Roger Neilsons Towel Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 11 minutes ago, Coryberg said: Define discount? I could ask $6,000 for a $4,500 car. Since you are such a nice guy I'll give you a deal and you can have it for $5,500. Would that be a discount? You seem to have a short memory to how valuable he was for us in the playoffs. Seems more like you’re looking for an argument honestly. 2 minutes ago, Jaimito said: A discount relative to the market value he can get as a free agent. I don't care what he makes. As long the management can make it all work, sign other players, getting the right players etc. It's a big puzzle and I have faith in their abilities. This. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryberg Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 4 minutes ago, Roger Neilsons Towel said: You seem to have a short memory to how valuable he was for us in the playoffs. Seems more like you’re looking for an argument honestly. I was just wondering how you could "love him even more" after reading an article saying that the canucks have to up their offer and meet his demands. It's puzzling at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryberg Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 9 minutes ago, Jaimito said: A discount relative to the market value he can get as a free agent. I don't care what he makes. As long the management can make it all work, sign other players, getting the right players etc. It's a big puzzle and I have faith in their abilities. Somebody will throw stupid money at him, that doesn't mean it's right to throw a shade under stupid money at him. As far as not caring what he makes? It's been 19 years since the NHL implemented a salary cap, try yo keep up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 He had an impressive playoffs, that doesn't mean overpay. He wouldn't be the first to do so, he won't be the last, but I don't place as much emphasis on this run we just had even if the NHL is very much a "what have you done for me lately" league. But I suppose what's considered an overpay is relative. Anything more than 5-5.25x5 would be an overpay imo. Sure, he could get more term elsewhere but you've gotta draw a line somewhere. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HKSR Posted June 7 Popular Post Share Posted June 7 3 minutes ago, Coconuts said: He had an impressive playoffs, that doesn't mean overpay. He wouldn't be the first to do so, he won't be the last, but I don't place as much emphasis on this run we just had even if the NHL is very much a "what have you done for me lately" league. But I suppose what's considered an overpay is relative. Anything more than 5-5.25x5 would be an overpay imo. Sure, he could get more term elsewhere but you've gotta draw a line somewhere. Yeah, I love Big Z, but honestly, if he's gonna cost closer to $6M, then you gotta question if we couldn't find a Soucy equivalent and have a player that is 80 to 90% of what Zadorov is but 60% of the cap hit. I'd also wonder if we'd be strong in the long run if we re-signed Hronek and landed one of the top RHD through UFA. Imagining a D core of: Hughes-Hronek Soucy-Pesce ???-Myers Juulsen 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 13 minutes ago, Coryberg said: Somebody will throw stupid money at him, that doesn't mean it's right to throw a shade under stupid money at him. Maybe, but I doubt a contender has the cap room to do so. The fit for Zads and this team, the community, the fans, it's perfect. I think this gets done with a fair deal for all involved. Man I love the big guy and have been waiting for a player like this for years and years. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gurn Posted June 7 Popular Post Share Posted June 7 One thing that is almost constant in these threads. "If he chases the money, rather than wanting to win a Cup" type thoughts. 1- how many of us would actually take less to do any job? 2- why can't it be said he's taking more money elsewhere- and still has a shot at the cup? 3- why is it the player's responsibility to take less, and not the managements responsibility for mistakenly paying other guys too much? Why should Zads take less, because Alvin paid too much to Mikheyev? 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 minute ago, HKSR said: Yeah, I love Big Z, but honestly, if he's gonna cost closer to $6M, then you gotta question if we couldn't find a Soucy equivalent and have a player that is 80 to 90% of what Zadorov is but 60% of the cap hit. I'd also wonder if we'd be strong in the long run if we re-signed Hronek and landed one of the top RHD through UFA. Imagining a D core of: Hughes-Hronek Soucy-Pesce ???-Myers Juulsen I get why folks like him. He's got size, he plays rough, he provides an intimidation factor, and he has a history of providing a bit of offense. But some folks seem to be so enamored by the fact that he played top 4 minutes and put up 8 points in 13 playoff games that they forget he's a D who's never broken 22 points in a single season. I think recency bias and a desire to have a tougher D on the back end cloud the judgement of some folks. Yeah, he put up 14 goals with the Flames the season prior to this one but that's also his career high, and the only time he's broken 10 goals. Prior to that his career high was 7 goals in 17-18 and 18-19. I don't personally see him as a keep at all costs sort of player, even if I'd prefer to keep him. He's a bit of a unicorn in terms of size, sure, but he's not the only D out there who can bring an edge, physicality, and some solid skating. Management's gotta have a BATNA, and a line in the sand. You said it yesterday, it's not as if there's a lack of alternative D out there. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewonder20 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 I have a feeling that we will only keep one of Lindholm, Zads and Hronek (in addition to Meyers). Of the 3, Zads is most likely to take a tiny bit less to stay here, since his family has moved a lot and they love it here. Hopefully, we get a pick for Hronek (RFA), probably nothing for Lindholm (UFA) and we land a winger for Petey. Our D is likely downgraded next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 6 minutes ago, Rekker said: Maybe, but I doubt a contender has the cap room to do so. The fit for Zads and this team, the community, the fans, it's perfect. I think this gets done with a fair deal for all involved. Man I love the big guy and have been waiting for a player like this for years and years. It'll get done. Alvin is smart and knows that there is a fit and that there is a willingness to work together. Those folks who have conniptions about salary and term make me laugh. Management will do what makes sense for them and the team. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RupertKBD Posted June 7 Popular Post Share Posted June 7 Just now, Gurn said: One thing that is almost constant in these threads. "If he chases the money, rather than wanting to win a Cup" type thoughts. 1- how many of us would actually take less to do any job? 2- why can't it be said he's taking more money elsewhere- and still has a shot at the cup? 3- why is it the player's responsibility to take less, and not the managements responsibility for mistakenly paying other guys too much? Why should Zads take less, because Alvin paid too much to Mikheyev? I'm of a different mind than most folks here....IMO, Zadorov should be priority #1 and if 5.5 x 6 can get it done, then I'd say do it. I think what Z brings to the table is the hardest to replicate of all the current UFA's. When was the last time this team had a defender that opposing forwards always want to make sure to know exactly where he is? NZ has the Bryan Marchment factor to his game. Forwards think about what might happen, if they freewheel too much around our blueline. You can't teach that kind of size, plus mobility, plus mean streak. Combine that with a surprisingly soft pair of hands for a guy who can throw them and I'd say the only guy who comes anywhere close among past Canucks' defenders is Jovocop. I promise the team will miss him if he walks.....and if it's because of $500k, we'll be bitching about it for a long time.... 1 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 2 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said: I have a feeling that we will only keep one of Lindholm, Zads and Hronek (in addition to Meyers). Of the 3, Zads is most likely to take a tiny bit less to stay here, since his family has moved a lot and they love it here. Hopefully, we get a pick for Hronek (RFA), probably nothing for Lindholm (UFA) and we land a winger for Petey. Our D is likely downgraded next year. Sounds like PTSD to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 26 minutes ago, Coryberg said: As far as not caring what he makes? It's been 19 years since the NHL implemented a salary cap, try yo keep up. seems like you're the one struggling to keep up. fans don't need to worry about the cap, that's for the paid professionals to sort out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewonder20 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Just now, Devron said: Sounds like PTSD to me Nah, doesn’t meet the DSM criteria for PTSD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryberg Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 24 minutes ago, Rekker said: Maybe, but I doubt a contender has the cap room to do so. The fit for Zads and this team, the community, the fans, it's perfect. I think this gets done with a fair deal for all involved. Man I love the big guy and have been waiting for a player like this for years and years. Yep, past examples would be guddy to CBJ and Gudas to Anaheim. Overpayments by bottom feeders to be a policeman giving young players a safe working environment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Neilsons Towel Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 55 minutes ago, Coryberg said: I was just wondering how you could "love him even more" after reading an article saying that the canucks have to up their offer and meet his demands. It's puzzling at best. Maybe you’re just easily puzzled 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarbularyBattery Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 If they're gonna pay 5m or so to zadorov, that tells me they're going to try to run back the same D minus Cole, Juulsen probably expected to take his place and theyre hoping that foote/gonchar can turn him into a nhl regular #6 and they're gonna put the real $ into upgrading the top6 not the worst strategy. I think they nailed the formula in the way our D was constructed last year, especially after getting Zadorov 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, Gurn said: One thing that is almost constant in these threads. "If he chases the money, rather than wanting to win a Cup" type thoughts. 1- how many of us would actually take less to do any job? 2- why can't it be said he's taking more money elsewhere- and still has a shot at the cup? 3- why is it the player's responsibility to take less, and not the managements responsibility for mistakenly paying other guys too much? Why should Zads take less, because Alvin paid too much to Mikheyev? Its called "Character" and he has plenty of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, Coconuts said: I get why folks like him. He's got size, he plays rough, he provides an intimidation factor, and he has a history of providing a bit of offense. But some folks seem to be so enamored by the fact that he played top 4 minutes and put up 8 points in 13 playoff games that they forget he's a D who's never broken 22 points in a single season. I think recency bias and a desire to have a tougher D on the back end cloud the judgement of some folks. Yeah, he put up 14 goals with the Flames the season prior to this one but that's also his career high, and the only time he's broken 10 goals. Prior to that his career high was 7 goals in 17-18 and 18-19. I don't personally see him as a keep at all costs sort of player, even if I'd prefer to keep him. He's a bit of a unicorn in terms of size, sure, but he's not the only D out there who can bring an edge, physicality, and some solid skating. Management's gotta have a BATNA, and a line in the sand. You said it yesterday, it's not as if there's a lack of alternative D out there. You fail to realize that he is a playoff performer and that is what we need on this team . No more regular season heroes please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, Coryberg said: I was just wondering how you could "love him even more" after reading an article saying that the canucks have to up their offer and meet his demands. It's puzzling at best. yesterdays price is not todays 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 7 minutes ago, EdgarM said: Its called "Character" and he has plenty of it. He has a short career, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronning4center Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 7 hours ago, Rip The Mesh said: I think it could very well piss-off half the fan base if Zadorov isn't back for 24-25. Also; he brings a level of accountability that's hard to find. I bet Alvin will give it his best shot. This dudes character is off the charts. He's intelligent...can handle our media and seems to be great in the room. He's a beast on the ice and lives and breathes hockey. You absolutely have to bring him back. Imagine if Pettersson had zadoroffs attitude and personality....he'd be a top paid player in the league... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, Gurn said: One thing that is almost constant in these threads. "If he chases the money, rather than wanting to win a Cup" type thoughts. 1- how many of us would actually take less to do any job? 2- why can't it be said he's taking more money elsewhere- and still has a shot at the cup? 3- why is it the player's responsibility to take less, and not the managements responsibility for mistakenly paying other guys too much? Why should Zads take less, because Alvin paid too much to Mikheyev? There's a difference between chasing money, and valuing yourself / self respect. 1. Lots of us would take less money to work locally rather than work in / at camps or remote destinations. Situations, geographic preferences, family dynamics, fit, culture all can actual influence your salary expectations. And it happens across all industries and workplaces. 2. It could be said, it depends on fit. Every team has their own situation and fit 3. Management takes ownership of their contracts their wins / losses and try to correct things. Some of the contract situations are also not of their making. Mikehyev had a freak injury that has clearly impacted his value and confidence. And yes he underperformed. They are also different positions, same agent so I am sure there is a level of understanding that would come with this comparison. BIG Z has moved around a lot. He wants to put roots down. He and his family likes it here. He wants to win. Hes a smart guy. He likes the staff and locker room here. He identified this as a place he can grow, win and stay long term. His willingness to take a little discount is a player who is not only motivated by earning max money but by being in a situation he knows he can succeed and his family can be happy. Our real estate market also offers wealth advantages unlike other markets. Our market also offers marketing opportunities for him that maybe he wouldn't get in smaller markets. There's a lot of opportunity here for him and if we can make a deal work and still fill out an improved roster from last year while retaining him why not? No one is expecting him to take a Myers discount. But the reality of the situation is he has to fit under a certain number in order of run to make it happen. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, Coryberg said: Somebody will throw stupid money at him, that doesn't mean it's right to throw a shade under stupid money at him. As far as not caring what he makes? It's been 19 years since the NHL implemented a salary cap, try yo keep up. Stfu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 I hope they can reach a deal. I'm prepared to lose Hronek, to keep Zads; and think he's the most important re-signing this team has to worry about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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