[ARTICLE] What it might take to sign Nikita Zadorov and if it makes sense for the Canucks

[Hammertime]

4 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I think Mikeyev will be traded soon to San Jose or Chicago, and shortly thereafter Zadorov will be signed to a massive deal that works for both team and player. Good times ahead. 

 

 

I don't see how one affects the other we can carry both and still upgrade the top 6. We're out on Guentzel thats about it.  

[PhillipBlunt]

4 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

I don't see how one affects the other we can carry both and still upgrade the top 6. We're out on Guentzel thats about it.  

Leave me to my fever dreams, you vicious brute. 

[Hammertime]

15 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Leave me to my fever dreams, you vicious brute. 

[PhillipBlunt]

4 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

[EdgarM]

2 hours ago, zduck14 said:

I agree to a point. I don't mean to excuse Petey entirely and agree he needed to be better. Going forward, I think these playoffs were a huge eye opener for him and he'll learn from it.

 

That said, Mik scored 1 goal in his last 61 games playing mostly with Petey..... absolutely brutal.

I agree Petey will learn and be better the next time around. He does need to fill out a little more and be more stronger on his skates if he wants to be a dominant player in this league.

Mik's game relies on his speed, and neither Petey or him had any of that last year.

[EdgarM]

59 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

 

That would be a fun exercise. I bet you could build a pretty schweet roster with everyone making 3-5m 

What is even more funny is Vegas got worse when they added high priced players. They had Stone and Petriangelo and then added Eichel and won the cup. They added Hertyl , Hanifin and Mantha and all of a sudden, not doing so well. 

[Crabcakes]

4 hours ago, EdgarM said:

Getting back to Big Z. 

I look at how we dealt with the Oilers and how the Panthers are fairing right now. We had the size and intimidation factor to keep them in check. The Panthers are not able to contain them and will lose the series if they cannot find it for the next game. 

Although we didn't have Demko, we didn't lose because of our defensive game, we lost because some were not playing to their potential in the offense department of which Petey was the front runner with that. 

If we had Demko and Petey, Suter or Mikheyev etc. provided some contribution, we would be in the final right now. 

We should be looking at how Vegas built their championship team, they built the foundation and then added the offense(Stone,Eichel).

Big Z is defintely a foundation piece and should be priority #1. 

Guentzel or some other high priced UFA would be nice but we need to get our house in order first.

Joshua is a key component too but might be a little easier to replace at a lower cost if need be. 

The Oilers solved Silovs frankly.  He's vulnerable to shots up high from distance.  This made Bouchard look better than he is.  

 

To your point on Zadorov, man I hope they can sign him.  Also, if they can land a real life top 6 winger to play with Petey that would be awesome

 

I think that Allvin is disciplined with respect to the numbers he signs people for who are playing various roles.  One has to be in the hard cap world.  Geuntzel would be great, or Marchesault but neither is better if the cap hit or term is wrong

 

Draft is June 28 & 29 (Fri - Sat) this week.  Something important is going to happen soon.

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, Hammertime said:

 

That would be a fun exercise. I bet you could build a pretty schweet roster with everyone making 3-5m 

it depends on the criteria..ppl making 3-5m as i market value or ppl gonna plug the team full of players paid 3-5m but are all well exceeding their cap hit with their play or a roster full of elc like bedards lol

[wai_lai416]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

 

Well, where we probably disagree on the timeline.......id say they're probably 2-3 years from truly being in that upper echelon from teams and a move for a 30 year old winger that prevents them from properly balancing their roster is a desperation move, imo 

 

It's possible that everything goes right and they get to that upper tier of contenders for a couple years and they have a window to actually win it all..........if they don't, they probably fall back down into the Canes realm and start a long decline because they're aging and ard top heavy on the cap and cant properly support the high flyers 

 

Or, the high priced winger doesn't work out, they can't afford depth players of any quality, they lose Boeser, demko leaves and they're back trying to rebuild, but they can't do it properly because no one wants high priced, aging assets.

i would agree with the 2-3 year timeline if they kept horvat, but because they choose to keep miller it no longer a 2-3 year timeline.. sry you really think this team will be stronger in 2-3 years with a 34 year old miller and a 30 year old boeser/demko on a new shiny contract if they are to stay? i don't. boeser greatest weakness is his speed.. he's only going to get slower. i'm all for signing guentzel and if boeser walks next season? so be it.. guentzel can be his direct replacement and we look for another top 6 winger in the off season to replace.. demko you go all in the next 2 season and see where it gets you.. i honestly don't see us re-signing him.. not when he'll prolly be looking at 8+mil or slightly less than helly.. his career trajectory is looking awfully like corey schneider and i'm hesitant to give him a big contract or one with any terms.. so again we only have certainty for the next year or 2.. then it's all unknown again.. i rather gamble on what is known.. then look into the future and gamble the unknowns

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I think Mikeyev will be traded soon to San Jose or Chicago, and shortly thereafter Zadorov will be signed to a massive deal that’ll keeps him in Vancouver for the rest of his career that works for both team and player. Good times ahead. 

 

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

Waiting. 

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

9 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Leave me to my fever dreams, you vicious brute. 

[Hammertime]

9 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

it depends on the criteria..ppl making 3-5m as i market value or ppl gonna plug the team full of players paid 3-5m but are all well exceeding their cap hit with their play or a roster full of elc like bedards lol

Well I guess that means we can't have guys on active rosters who also put perform contracts no Dak under a mill no Suter no hogs no Miller or Huggy either. 

[stawns]

9 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

i would agree with the 2-3 year timeline if they kept horvat, but because they choose to keep miller it no longer a 2-3 year timeline.. sry you really think this team will be stronger in 2-3 years with a 34 year old miller and a 30 year old boeser/demko on a new shiny contract if they are to stay? i don't. boeser greatest weakness is his speed.. he's only going to get slower. i'm all for signing guentzel and if boeser walks next season? so be it.. guentzel can be his direct replacement and we look for another top 6 winger in the off season to replace.. demko you go all in the next 2 season and see where it gets you.. i honestly don't see us re-signing him.. not when he'll prolly be looking at 8+mil or slightly less than helly.. his career trajectory is looking awfully like corey schneider and i'm hesitant to give him a big contract or one with any terms.. so again we only have certainty for the next year or 2.. then it's all unknown again.. i rather gamble on what is known.. then look into the future and gamble the unknowns

 

It takes most teams several tries and failures to get to that upper tier of teams........take the cores of Fla and Edm for instance.  For both teams, this their 5th kick at the can and for one of them, it'll be their 6th failure.  

 

You try and fail, then adjust your lineup.........rinse and repeat until you get the right mix.  That's how it goes for most teams, I don't know why the Canucks would be any different.

[Bob Long]

31 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

It takes most teams several tries and failures to get to that upper tier of teams........take the cores of Fla and Edm for instance.  For both teams, this their 5th kick at the can and for one of them, it'll be their 6th failure.  

 

You try and fail, then adjust your lineup.........rinse and repeat until you get the right mix.  That's how it goes for most teams, I don't know why the Canucks would be any different.

 

what timing are you using? are you counting the bubble, or starting from this season? 

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

what timing are you using? are you counting the bubble, or starting from this season? 

I believe this season

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

what timing are you using? are you counting the bubble, or starting from this season? 

The season is the first year of their playoff window.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

The season is the first year of their playoff window.

 

OK, well they were one game from the final 4, which is a nice start then. 

 

Any team that makes the conference finals has a legit shot, at that point it's down to a lot of injury luck as to who has the stamina to finish it off. 

 

E.g., if FLA loses tonight I bet we hear that Bob's has been trying to play through an injury. 

 

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

OK, well they were one game from the final 4, which is a nice start then. 

 

Any team that makes the conference finals has a legit shot, at that point it's down to a lot of injury luck as to who has the stamina to finish it off. 

 

E.g., if FLA loses tonight I bet we hear that Bob's has been trying to play through an injury. 

 

It was a good start, and winning a round was what I was hoping for this year.  That said, I think they're still 2-3 years away from being in the upper tier of teams. 

 

They've got a fair amount of work to do and it's not going to get done in one off season.  They're not one long term, high priced winger away, not even close, imo.

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

It was a good start, and winning a round was what I was hoping for this year.  That said, I think they're still 2-3 years away from being in the upper tier of teams. 

 

They've got a fair amount of work to do and it's not going to get done in one off season.  They're not one long term, high priced winger away, not even close, imo.

I think you should define "upper tier".  My definition of upper tier is a top 10 finish in the league.  Perhaps your definition of Upper Tier is a Stanley Cup Finals appearance?

 

If you said 2-3 years away from a Finals appearance, I could agree with that.  It generally takes a few cracks at it before the experience translates into a deep run.  Very rare does a team get to the Finals without experiencing losing a few times first.  Took EDM and FLA a few years before making the Cup Finals.  Even our beloved 2011 Canucks took a few years of losing before breaking through.

 

Now with that said, you do need to make the moves to improve the team.  Shuffling the deck chairs doesn't do it.  After making the playoffs for the 1st time, EDM added Ekholm and Hyman, and developed Bouchard.  FLA added Tkachuk and Reinhart, and developed Forsling.  Truly elite Cup contenders don't hold back in adding top end talent. 

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I think you should define "upper tier".  My definition of upper tier is a top 10 finish in the league.  Perhaps your definition of Upper Tier is a Stanley Cup Finals appearance?

 

If you said 2-3 years away from a Finals appearance, I could agree with that.  It generally takes a few cracks at it before the experience translates into a deep run.  Very rare does a team get to the Finals without experiencing losing a few times first.  Took EDM and FLA a few years before making the Cup Finals.  Even our beloved 2011 Canucks took a few years of losing before breaking through.

 

Now with that said, you do need to make the moves to improve the team.  Shuffling the deck chairs doesn't do it.  After making the playoffs for the 1st time, EDM added Ekholm and Hyman, and developed Bouchard.  FLA added Tkachuk and Reinhart, and developed Forsling.  Truly elite Cup contenders don't hold back in adding top end talent. 

 

My definition of upper tier are teams  who finish in the top end of the league in regular season consistently, consistently win playoff rounds and are always a threat to get to the conference finals. 

 

That's usually a 3-5 year process, imo

Edited June 24 by stawns

[c00kies]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I think you should define "upper tier".  My definition of upper tier is a top 10 finish in the league.  Perhaps your definition of Upper Tier is a Stanley Cup Finals appearance?

 

If you said 2-3 years away from a Finals appearance, I could agree with that.  It generally takes a few cracks at it before the experience translates into a deep run.  Very rare does a team get to the Finals without experiencing losing a few times first.  Took EDM and FLA a few years before making the Cup Finals.  Even our beloved 2011 Canucks took a few years of losing before breaking through.

 

Now with that said, you do need to make the moves to improve the team.  Shuffling the deck chairs doesn't do it.  After making the playoffs for the 1st time, EDM added Ekholm and Hyman, and developed Bouchard.  FLA added Tkachuk and Reinhart, and developed Forsling.  Truly elite Cup contenders don't hold back in adding top end talent. 

 

I don't even consider Edmonton an upper tier team, but they might win the Cup.

 

Colorado, Florida, NYR, and maybe Vegas, Carolina, and Boston (assuming Boston gets some centers). I might have to put Edmonton there too, though I doubt they are able to replicate this playoff success.

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, c00kies said:

 

I don't even consider Edmonton an upper tier team, but they might win the Cup.

 

Colorado, Florida, NYR, and maybe Vegas, Carolina, and Boston (assuming Boston gets some centers). I might have to put Edmonton there too, though I doubt they are able to replicate this playoff success.

 

But this is six consecutive playoff seasons for Edmonton and their second trip to the conference finals in 3 years.  And when you have one of the best players in the history of the game having one of the best playoff performances in the history of the game, then everything else goes out the window, imo 

[HKSR]

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

My definition of upper tier are teams  who finish in the top end of the league in regular season consistently, consistently win playoff rounds and are always a threat to get to the conference finals. 

 

That's usually a 3-5 year process, imo

Ok, I don't agree with that because I believe this Canucks roster will be a consistent playoff team for the next several years.  Within the division, I see EDM, VGK, and VAN fighting for the 3 top spots over the course of the next few years.  I also see this team being within the top 10 in the league overall as well. 

 

My top 10 teams for the next several years:  FLA, EDM, CAR, NYR, DAL, VAN, VGK, COL, WPG, BOS.  Personally I think BOS is on a downward trend, same with WPG and VGK.  Not sure how or why VAN would not be in this group.  The next tier down would be teams like LAK, NAS, NYI, WAS, DET, etc.  The Canucks are clearly above those teams.

[stawns]

46 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

OK, well they were one game from the final 4, which is a nice start then. 

 

Any team that makes the conference finals has a legit shot, at that point it's down to a lot of injury luck as to who has the stamina to finish it off. 

 

E.g., if FLA loses tonight I bet we hear that Bob's has been trying to play through an injury. 

 

 

I will say that I think things are in a bit of a transition period where that power structure of Tampa, Vegas, boston and Carolina are either out of that window of contention or on their last legs.  

 

In the west I still think Colorado is in the prime of their window, and if they had their full team, would likely be the team to beat.  Edmonton is still, obviously, in their prime window.  But, I think Dallas might start losing ground.  Nashville and Van are both on the rise, imo.