[ARTICLE] What it might take to sign Nikita Zadorov and if it makes sense for the Canucks

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, ronning4center said:

It's sort of how I feel about signing Hronek at 7 +  especially if it means losing zadorov and Joshua.  Tough choices ahead

Not happening.  You can keep Hronek, Zadorov, and Joshua and still have lots of cap space leftover.  The tougher choices will be with Lindholm, Myers, Mikheyev, etc.

[Northern_Nuck]

43 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Not happening.  You can keep Hronek, Zadorov, and Joshua and still have lots of cap space leftover.  The tougher choices will be with Lindholm, Myers, Mikheyev, etc.

Unless the NHL cap goes up, I doubt it. Pettersson ate up any caproom we had. We might… MIGHT get to keep 2 out if 3 of Zadorov/Hronek/Joshua. Unless Myers and Lindholm will re-sign for league minimum, they’ll be gone. Mikheyev would cost us a 1st to dump that salary somewhere. 
 

 I feel this is our 1 year to make a playoff run because we don’t have the caproom to ice a team like this ever again. 

[HKSR]

23 minutes ago, Northern_Nuck said:

Unless the NHL cap goes up, I doubt it. Pettersson ate up any caproom we had. We might… MIGHT get to keep 2 out if 3 of Zadorov/Hronek/Joshua. Unless Myers and Lindholm will re-sign for league minimum, they’ll be gone. Mikheyev would cost us a 1st to dump that salary somewhere. 
 

 I feel this is our 1 year to make a playoff run because we don’t have the caproom to ice a team like this ever again. 

I've already done the math.  We can easily keep all 3.  It's the Lindholms, Myers, Mikheyevs that we need to make tough decisions on.

 

The below is with:

Hronek @ $7.35M (same cap hit as Dunn and Hanifin)

Joshua @ $4M

Zadorov @ $4.75M

Lindholm @ $7M

Myers @ $3.5M

 

I HIGHLY doubt Mikheyev would cost a 1st to move.  He had 31 points this past season and is defensively responsible, and also a strong PKer.  If anything he's maybe overpaid by $750k this past year.  Hardly at a level where it was cost a 1st.  I could see a 3rd or maybe at most a 2nd to move him. 

 

So no.  We're not as tight as some people think we are when it comes to the cap.

 

[Northern_Nuck]

15 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I've already done the math.  We can easily keep all 3.  It's the Lindholms, Myers, Mikheyevs that we need to make tough decisions on.

 

The below is with:

Hronek @ $7.35M (same cap hit as Dunn and Hanifin)

Joshua @ $4M

Zadorov @ $4.75M

Lindholm @ $7M

Myers @ $3.5M

 

I HIGHLY doubt Mikheyev would cost a 1st to move.  He had 31 points this past season and is defensively responsible, and also a strong PKer.  If anything he's maybe overpaid by $750k this past year.  Hardly at a level where it was cost a 1st.  I could see a 3rd or maybe at most a 2nd to move him. 

 

So no.  We're not as tight as some people think we are when it comes to the cap.

 

I dunno… if I’m a GM so I pay 4-4.75 for a penalty killer that adds 30 points? Or do I give maybe a fast gritty player a chance at 900k, in hopes that he can add 20-30 points? 
 

 If I’m any of the other 31gms in the league, I'm not taking on 3.5-4 million in additional cap for a better than average penalty killer, who’s putting up points that are below average for 3rd line but above average for 4th line.  If I had to take on that cap, I’d be asking a 1st or a Lekkerimaki or Wallinder, possibly Slilovs. 
 

  GMs aren’t being in the business of helping other GMs alleviate their cap issues for free or even cheap. A recent example of this is when Calgary traded monohan to Montreal… they had to add a 1st rd pick for Montreal to absorb the cap in full. 

[BC_Hawk]

56 minutes ago, Northern_Nuck said:

I dunno… if I’m a GM so I pay 4-4.75 for a penalty killer that adds 30 points? Or do I give maybe a fast gritty player a chance at 900k, in hopes that he can add 20-30 points? 
 

 If I’m any of the other 31gms in the league, I'm not taking on 3.5-4 million in additional cap for a better than average penalty killer, who’s putting up points that are below average for 3rd line but above average for 4th line.  If I had to take on that cap, I’d be asking a 1st or a Lekkerimaki or Wallinder, possibly Slilovs. 
 

  GMs aren’t being in the business of helping other GMs alleviate their cap issues for free or even cheap. A recent example of this is when Calgary traded monohan to Montreal… they had to add a 1st rd pick for Montreal to absorb the cap in full. 

Still think a 1st is more than it will take to move him, but even if that is the cost, would you not do that to retain Lindholm and others?

 

Simply looking at HKSRs #s, without Mik's salary, it is EASILY attainable. None of his reported re-signs are ridiculous bargains; all at values actually over what their final # will probably be. In addition, he has 2m for a BU Goalie; Silovs is cheaper than that, and making his case to be that guy next year. So....save 1m on goalie, another 0.5-1m on the resigns, and we suddenly have ~3.5m in space; enough to sign Blueger...or maybe even retain MIk!

[HKSR]

2 hours ago, Northern_Nuck said:

I dunno… if I’m a GM so I pay 4-4.75 for a penalty killer that adds 30 points? Or do I give maybe a fast gritty player a chance at 900k, in hopes that he can add 20-30 points? 
 

 If I’m any of the other 31gms in the league, I'm not taking on 3.5-4 million in additional cap for a better than average penalty killer, who’s putting up points that are below average for 3rd line but above average for 4th line.  If I had to take on that cap, I’d be asking a 1st or a Lekkerimaki or Wallinder, possibly Slilovs. 
 

  GMs aren’t being in the business of helping other GMs alleviate their cap issues for free or even cheap. A recent example of this is when Calgary traded monohan to Montreal… they had to add a 1st rd pick for Montreal to absorb the cap in full. 

Typically with forwards, it's $1M per 10 points.  So he's in the $3M mark this year.  I'd also pay a premium for a guy that can potentially hit 20 goals and 40+ points while also being a strong defensive forward with good size, and also a PKer.  Mik is one year removed from his 50pt pace season with the Canucks.  With lots more ice time in an offensive role, and a fresh start, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he got back into that 40 to 50 point range.  Bottomline is I HIGHLY doubt it would cost a 1st to move Mikheyev.  He's not a useless player, plus he has a decent track record behind him.

[Alflives]

Hronek had nearly fifty points and was way over plus 30. And he didn’t play (much at all) on pp-1. Not too sure we can so easily find a guy to replace that. He’s worth the Devon Toews contract. 

[HKSR]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Hronek had nearly fifty points and was way over plus 30. And he didn’t play (much at all) on pp-1. Not too sure we can so easily find a guy to replace that. He’s worth the Devon Toews contract. 

Devon Toews, Noah Hanifin, Vince Dunn... all great comparables.

$7.25M, $7.35M, $7.35M ... I'm almost convinced Hronek will land in this ballpark.  A month ago I would have given him more, but he really hasn't elevated his game in the playoffs, so I think he lands close to that $7.25M now.

[Naslund2004]

Zadorov seems to be playing a bigger role in the playoffs than Hronek.

 

For Hronek, even at 7 mil seems an overpayment now.

 

[BigTramFan]

7 hours ago, HKSR said:

I've already done the math.  We can easily keep all 3.  It's the Lindholms, Myers, Mikheyevs that we need to make tough decisions on.

 

The below is with:

Hronek @ $7.35M (same cap hit as Dunn and Hanifin)

Joshua @ $4M

Zadorov @ $4.75M

Lindholm @ $7M

Myers @ $3.5M

 

I HIGHLY doubt Mikheyev would cost a 1st to move.  He had 31 points this past season and is defensively responsible, and also a strong PKer.  If anything he's maybe overpaid by $750k this past year.  Hardly at a level where it was cost a 1st.  I could see a 3rd or maybe at most a 2nd to move him. 

 

So no.  We're not as tight as some people think we are when it comes to the cap.

 

Nothing wrong with your numbers. And I guess we use the $1.77m in cap space to add a 13th F and an 8th Dman.

 

But the bigger issue is that this roster leaves us with a very weak F group, particularly on the 2nd and 4th lines:

 

Suter Miller Boeser

Hogs EP Podz

Joshua Lindholm Garland

PDG Aman Karlsson

 

I don't think Podz is a top 6 player, and Aman and Karlsson are both fringe NHLers (PDG is almost the same level).

 

Lindholm has been great in the playoffs, but I wonder about the risk of signing another soon-to-be 30 year old player to a long term $7m x 7 year contract. I think I'd be tempted to try and spend that money on a top-6 running mate for Pettersson with a 3-year contract which holds the fort until Lekkerimaki hits the NHL, plus give us more depth in the bottom 6.

 

Instead of paying these guys: Hronek $7.35m, Lindholm $7m, Karlsson $0.9m, PDG $0.775m, 13F+8D $1.77m = $17.8m total

 

I'd prefer to see Hronek rights traded and these UFAs signed: Pesce $6m x 6, someone like Monahan $5m x 3, Blueger $2.4m x 3, Noesen $1.9m x 3, Hakanpaa $1.5m x 2, Sam Carrick $1m x 2 = $17.8m total

 

Roster for 2025:

Suter Miller Boeser

Hogs EP Monahan

Joshua Blueger Garland

Podz Carrick Noesen

(Aman)

 

Hughes Pesce

Soucy Myers

Zadorov Hakanpaa

(Friedman Juulsen)

 

Demko, Desmith

 

[AlexanderM]

I do think we should re-sign Zadorov, I would prioritize him over Myers, but the other priority would be a quality winger to play with Petey, has to happen. 

[VegasCanuck]

On 4/30/2024 at 11:24 AM, HKSR said:

I've already done the math.  We can easily keep all 3.  It's the Lindholms, Myers, Mikheyevs that we need to make tough decisions on.

 

The below is with:

Hronek @ $7.35M (same cap hit as Dunn and Hanifin)

Joshua @ $4M

Zadorov @ $4.75M

Lindholm @ $7M

Myers @ $3.5M

 

I HIGHLY doubt Mikheyev would cost a 1st to move.  He had 31 points this past season and is defensively responsible, and also a strong PKer.  If anything he's maybe overpaid by $750k this past year.  Hardly at a level where it was cost a 1st.  I could see a 3rd or maybe at most a 2nd to move him. 

 

So no.  We're not as tight as some people think we are when it comes to the cap.

 

I think you're a little high on Joshua, I think he'd sign for about 3.25 for 3 - 4 years. I think the Canucks max out at 7 on Hronek. He's not as accomplished as the others you mention. Hanafin was going UFA and ahd that leverage to work with. 

 

There are changes that we are going to need to make this summer, no doubt about it at all. I think we will keep Lindholm once the dust settles and I think we will get Myers around 2.75 - 3 Million or we'll go get Tanev at around 4 million.

 

I think overall, you're pretty close on your estimates of contracts. Canucks won't spend a 1st to move Mikheyev and I'm not sure they believe that they need to. Personally, I thought his first year here was good but he hasn't been the same after surgery, but could easily bounce back next season.

 

It's estimated that we will be at 87.7 million next season based on this season's numbers. The question is, will the league push that a little higher with expected revenue from Utah next year when they have a full building.

 

It's fun building hypothetical rosters and seeing how close we can get. Here's mine based on how we sit right now:

 

I think we let Blueger, Cole, DeSmith and Myers walk. I don't think we can afford a 2 million hit for a backup goalie and I think if we give Silovs first shot at it, one way contract for 2 years to audition for Canucks future starter while backing up Demko, 825k one way I think he'll take.

 

I think Myers will probably price out of our range and frankly, I'd rather have Zadorov. He's younger and much more physical presence on our blue line.

 

People forget that before he was injured, Brisebois was penciled in for our starting line up. As long as he's recovered from his injury, I think he'll be on the team as well as Woo as our 7th D

 

Up front, I think we re-sign Lindholm, Lafferty and Joshua, I think Lindholm will take a 1 year deal to prove himself again. He had a bad year in Calgary and I think he will try and establish himself again and go for a much bigger contract next summer. Di Giuseppe is penciled in, but his hit could be for just about anyone. We'll see who shows up next camp to push the limits. I think Bains will be ready for this team next camp, I see him in our bottom 6. I also think that Raty will make a real push in camp to be on the team.

 

Other prospects that are on the bubble but I think get deemed needing a little more time, Pettersson, Kudryavtsev, Sassons I would put as my guy that might really shock and make the team, he's had a really strong year in Abbotsford and has flown under the radar for fans in Vancouver.

 

This is 23 man roster, based on 87,700,000 cap, we'd have about 1.5 million space.

 

NOW.... JR likes to make changes and shuffle the deck. I think we will try and move either Mikheyev or Garland to free up some cap space. Based on how he's played the last part of the year, Garland could easily be moved under the higher cap as teams will have much better space this summer. Don't be surprised if we move one of those 2 guys and go shopping for other upgrades on defense, possibly pulling in Tanev from the UFA pool 

 

That's my take on it, let's see what Allvin can pull out of his a$$.

 

 

[Gawdzukes]

On 4/30/2024 at 1:49 PM, BC_Hawk said:

Still think a 1st is more than it will take to move him, but even if that is the cost, would you not do that to retain Lindholm and others?

 

Simply looking at HKSRs #s, without Mik's salary, it is EASILY attainable. None of his reported re-signs are ridiculous bargains; all at values actually over what their final # will probably be. In addition, he has 2m for a BU Goalie; Silovs is cheaper than that, and making his case to be that guy next year. So....save 1m on goalie, another 0.5-1m on the resigns, and we suddenly have ~3.5m in space; enough to sign Blueger...or maybe even retain MIk!

 

His roster is short two players though, plus has Aman, Karlsson, Podkolzin, and Giuseppe all starting. Also, no upgrades at forward for Petey. 

 

That team is not looking as good as this year's team.

[HKSR]

6 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

His roster is short two players though, plus has Aman, Karlsson, Podkolzin, and Giuseppe all starting. Also, no upgrades at forward for Petey. 

 

That team is not looking as good as this year's team.

We didn't have Lindholm for the majority of this season and still finished 1st in our division.  We would have Miller, Petey and Lindholm down the middle for a full season.  That's an improvement right there.

 

We also gonna just think none of our Abby Canucks will make it onto this team?  Podkolzin will almost certainly be ready.  PDG has actually been quite effective in his 4th line role.  And then there's any of Raty, Lekkerimaki, Willander, DPetey, McDonough, Bains, Mcward, Brisebois, etc etc.  

 

The key is our core group can remain intact.  We are just tweaking the bottom 6 and bottom pairs on D.

[NucksNation]

I wouldn’t pay Hronek over 6.5. He’s been bad defensively since the first half of the season and doesn’t do much offensively. Can’t even hit the net with his slapshot. He’s really good at breaking the puck out tho. 
 

I’d pay up to 5.5 for Zadorov. He’s entering his prime and it’s almost impossible to find a player like him. I bet he’d keep improving the next few years working with Foote and Gonchar as well. We’d probably be swept right now without him. 

[PhillipBlunt]

9 hours ago, NucksNation said:

I wouldn’t pay Hronek over 6.5. He’s been bad defensively since the first half of the season and doesn’t do much offensively. Can’t even hit the net with his slapshot. He’s really good at breaking the puck out tho. 
 

I’d pay up to 5.5 for Zadorov. He’s entering his prime and it’s almost impossible to find a player like him. I bet he’d keep improving the next few years working with Foote and Gonchar as well. We’d probably be swept right now without him. 

Likewise. The playoffs have been very instructive regarding the commitment players have to bettering the team. Zadorov is doing everything he can to get this team into the next round. Hronek hasn't. That's telling. Best to focus on the players who will further the team when it matters most. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

On 4/30/2024 at 10:08 AM, HKSR said:

Not happening.  You can keep Hronek, Zadorov, and Joshua and still have lots of cap space leftover.  The tougher choices will be with Lindholm, Myers, Mikheyev, etc.

 

Exactly this. You laid out the numbers the other day. You can keep all three. People aren't moving past emotions to see it. 

 

It really does come down to making harder decisions around Lindholm, Myers, and Mikheyev. 

 

My guess it that Myers will take a discount - his agent kinda indicated this - Mikheyev will be traded and Lindholm will be too expensive.

[Dr. Crossbar]

On 4/30/2024 at 11:24 AM, HKSR said:

The below is with:

Hronek @ $7.35M (same cap hit as Dunn and Hanifin)

 

I think we'll see him come somewhere in this range.

 

Like you said in another thread, which I've also made mention of, we haven't seen the best of Hughes yet. We also haven't seen the best of Hronek yet either. We've seen what they're both capable of together as a pairing with still more room to get even better. Lock that up for our window.

[Viking]

On 5/1/2024 at 2:48 PM, AlexanderM said:

I do think we should re-sign Zadorov, I would prioritize him over Myers, but the other priority would be a quality winger to play with Petey, has to happen. 

Bring back toffoli maybe? Sign someone like Domi?

[BigTramFan]

22 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

It's fun building hypothetical rosters and seeing how close we can get. Here's mine based on how we sit right now:

 

Up front, I think we re-sign Lindholm, Lafferty and Joshua, I think Lindholm will take a 1 year deal to prove himself again. He had a bad year in Calgary and I think he will try and establish himself again and go for a much bigger contract next summer.

 

I think you might be a bit low on all 3 of Lindholm (6.5), Hronek (7.0) and Joshua (3.25).

 

Might be closer to Lindholm (7.0), Hronek (7.5) and Joshua (3.75), which would be workable within the $1.5m space you mentioned with the above roster.

 

I also don't see Lindholm agreeing to a 1 year deal. 

 

 

 

[VegasCanuck]

1 hour ago, BigTramFan said:

I think you might be a bit low on all 3 of Lindholm (6.5), Hronek (7.0) and Joshua (3.25).

 

Might be closer to Lindholm (7.0), Hronek (7.5) and Joshua (3.75), which would be workable within the $1.5m space you mentioned with the above roster.

 

I also don't see Lindholm agreeing to a 1 year deal. 

 

 

 

Very possible. My thinking on Lindholm is that after the year he has been through, he might be better off taking a little lower, 1 year deal and go for a 6 or 8 year deal next summer.

[BigTramFan]

On 5/3/2024 at 1:26 PM, VegasCanuck said:

Very possible. My thinking on Lindholm is that after the year he has been through, he might be better off taking a little lower, 1 year deal and go for a 6 or 8 year deal next summer.

He will be 30 years old next summer, which is never a good starting point for a long term contract!

 

Anyway, I would liek to resign Lindholm but it has to be under the condition that Tocchet is going to deploy him in the top 6. I don't want us paying for Lindholm as an expensive 3C!

 

And I do think Hogs-Petey-Lindholm can be a successful line next season.

[DexM94]

Re sign Zadorov

re sign Myers

let Hronek walk > save huge cash 7-8 M

let Lindholm walk > save more 6-7 M

sign Tanev 

sign Toffoli

sign Monahan

 

 

 

[Coryberg]

46 minutes ago, DexM94 said:

Re sign Zadorov

re sign Myers

let Hronek walk > save huge cash 7-8 M

let Lindholm walk > save more 6-7 M

sign Tanev 

sign Toffoli

sign Monahan

 

 

 

Hronek is a RFA. We can trade his rights if we choose to move on. No point in not qualifying him and letting him walk.

[DexM94]

17 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

Hronek is a RFA. We can trade his rights if we choose to move on. No point in not qualifying him and letting him walk.

Trade his rights to TO, get a 1st and Domi in return  Domi could center our 3rd line.