[ARTICLE] What it might take to sign Nikita Zadorov and if it makes sense for the Canucks

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, Bure10Kuzmenko96 said:

Now, I'm not confident. Ugh

I have a feeling their deadline is the draft.

 

If he’s not signed by then I think he’s gone.

[HKSR]

7 minutes ago, Bure10Kuzmenko96 said:

Now, I'm not confident. Ugh

Yeah that sounds like a downturn in negotiations to me. 

 

It would suck to lose the size and snarl of Zadorov... but reality is, neither team in the Finals this year had that much snarl in their lineups. 

[canucks curse]

But tbh 

Zads seems more replaceable than Joshua 

Brendan Dillon is out there 

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

3 minutes ago, canucks curse said:

But tbh 

Zads seems more replaceable than Joshua 

Brendan Dillon is out there 

Too old

[Bob Long]

14 minutes ago, Bure10Kuzmenko96 said:

Now, I'm not confident. Ugh

 

Funny I found that to be positive, the door isn't shut. 

[Viking]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

Funny I found that to be positive, the door isn't shut. 

agreed not shut till pen is put on paper with Zad signing with another team. If we cant sign him, maybe deal his rights at the draft in a sign and trade to get a pick for this draft

 

[RJCF96]

42 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I think this says that if the Canucks can't move out more cap space to make it work, he will have to go to the UFA market.

 

So time is ticking down, it is either we find suitor to dump Mikheyev's contract in the next few days or we lose Big Z.

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, canucks curse said:

But tbh 

Zads seems more replaceable than Joshua 

Brendan Dillon is out there 

 

Love Dillon and would be thrilled to get him as an alternative to Zadorov, if the latter is not meant to be. But he can't skate like Zadorov.

 

Joshua was a great story and I'd love to have him back at the right $... But he also rode Garland and a likely unsustainable shooting % to a career year.

 

This is exactly what pro scouting is for. Need to find the "next Joshua".

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

 

Love Dillon and would be thrilled to get him as an alternative to Zadorov, if the latter is not meant to be. But he can't skate like Zadorov.

 

Joshua was a great story and I'd love to have him back at the right $... But he also rode Garland and a likely unsustainable shooting % to a career year.

 

This is exactly what pro scouting is for. Need to find the "next Joshua".

 

Yeah, Joshua is a guy management should probably be committed to allowing to walk. I like what he brought but he's probably going to be paid more than he should be via UFA, and Garland was the engine on that line. 

 

The overall package he brought this season is tough to replace, but there are players out there who could at least bring his physicality. And who's to say who else would gel with Garland.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, RJCF96 said:

I think this says that if the Canucks can't move out more cap space to make it work, he will have to go to the UFA market.

 

So time is ticking down, it is either we find suitor to dump Mikheyev's contract in the next few days or we lose Big Z.

 

Both the player and the team want him here. IMO it's still more likely we extend him when it all shakes out. Before or after July 1

 

This is just his agent doing his job. July 1 is a leverage point for him in negotiation, so he's applying leverage. That's literally his job.

[GrammaInTheTub]

46 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I’m not sure why people here are reading this as anything new.
 

Milstein has been clear from the outset that the plan is to hear what’s out there July 1 and then they’ll either: 1) accept our offer; 2) circle back for a final chance for the Canucks to match or get closer (I.e., some small discount); or, 3) sign elsewhere. 

[Viking]

Love Zadorov but he isnt worth overpaying. I would keep him but cant give him an absurd contract for his clutch few playoff goals, he still has holes in his game so his size is great but its not worth overpaying for and being stuck with a bloated contract

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

Gonna be the summer of Benning again! I'm already getting BTSD

[canucks curse]

10 minutes ago, Bure10Kuzmenko96 said:

Gonna be the summer of Benning again! I'm already getting BTSD

I know right, I am getting the same sinking feeling, this will be their big test, how do they make this team better with so many guys wanting big money raises...

I think we see a ton of activity right before July 1st - Myers, bluegger prob resign at the 11th hour 

[Bretzky]

I’m really hoping the Nucks resign Zadorov, the market value is gonna be tested. I wouldn’t over spend on Guentzel, Vancouver would have a D core of Hughes, Hronek and Zaddy! Some good prospects coming through the pipeline both forwards and defence.

[AnthonyG]

55 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Yeah that sounds like a downturn in negotiations to me. 

 

It would suck to lose the size and snarl of Zadorov... but reality is, neither team in the Finals this year had that much snarl in their lineups. 

Florida had plenty of snarl and nastiness, not so much size and brute strength. Tkachuk, Lomberg, Bennett, Cousins, Rodriguez even Barkov… these guys were all laying the body far more than the oilers and making their hits count.

Games 1-3 hits

FLA 127

EDM 99

Games 4-6

FLA 137

EDM 66

 

Game 7

FLA 32

EDM 21

 

overall 296 to 186

 

FLA beat the living shit out of the Oiler bodies

 

 

[German Canuck]

This GM group works and make the deals behind closed doors without many informations for media / insiders.

 

Thats a strenght of this GM group and it feels great to have these Pro's to run the franchise.

 

Keep calm they know what to do

Edited Wednesday at 05:36 PM by German Canuck

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, AnthonyG said:

Florida had plenty of snarl and nastiness, not so much size and brute strength. Tkachuk, Lomberg, Bennett, Cousins, Rodriguez even Barkov… these guys were all laying the body far more than the oilers and making their hits count.

Games 1-3 hits

FLA 127

EDM 99

Games 4-6

FLA 137

EDM 66

 

Game 7

FLA 32

EDM 21

 

overall 296 to 186

 

FLA beat the living shit out of the Oiler bodies

 

 

Which of those guys are defencemen?

[AnthonyG]

38 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Which of those guys are defencemen?

Did you specifically say dmen? No.

but if you’d like I can add guys like Ekblad and OEL who were 5+6 in playoffs in total hits, Mikkola 11th, Kulikov 15th… not a single Edmonton Oiler dman in the top 25. You happy now? Only Bennet and Tkachuk were ahead of OEL and Ekblad. So yea there was plenty of snarl on the back end. In terms of how many more hits the top hitters on fwd threw

Bennett had 74

Tkapuke 68

OEL and Ekblad 60 each

Mikkola 55

Kukikov 53

not much more.

 

thats total playoffs 5v5

 

in the finals hits from dmen at 5v5

1. OEL 18

2. Kulikov 14

3. Mikkola 14

4. Ekblad 14

5 Bouchard 12

6. Forsling 11

7. Montour 10

8. Ceci 10

9. Ekholm 9

10. Nurse 9

11. Kulak 4

12. Broberg 2

13. Desharnais 1

 

Florida made the Oiler forwards pay far more than the Oilers dmen did on Florida.

81 to 47. 

[fuzzy]

48 minutes ago, German Canuck said:

This GM group works and make the deals behind closed doors without many informations for media / insiders.

 

Thats a strenght of this GM group and it feels great to have these Pro's to run the franchise.

 

Keep calm they know what to do

Agreed. Thank god we have a strong professional front office. As a fan, you can actually trust them to make good decisions

[HKSR]

6 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Did you specifically say dmen? No.

but if you’d like I can add guys like Ekblad and OEL who were 5+6 in playoffs in total hits, Mikkola 11th, Kulikov 15th… not a single Edmonton Oiler dman in the top 25. You happy now? Only Bennet and Tkachuk were ahead of OEL and Ekblad. So yea there was plenty of snarl on the back end. In terms of how many more hits the top hitters on fwd threw

Bennett had 74

Tkapuke 68

OEL and Ekblad 60 each

Mikkola 55

Kukikov 53

not much more.

 

thats total playoffs 5v5

 

in the finals hits from dmen at 5v5

1. OEL 18

2. Kulikov 14

3. Mikkola 14

4. Ekblad 14

5 Bouchard 12

6. Forsling 11

7. Montour 10

8. Ceci 10

9. Ekholm 9

10. Nurse 9

11. Kulak 4

12. Broberg 2

13. Desharnais 1

 

Florida made the Oiler forwards pay far more than the Oilers dmen did on Florida.

81 to 47. 

You can't look at total hits in the playoffs as an indicator.  They played more games than all the other teams, so their stats are naturally higher.  I'd be interested in seeing hits per game.  That tells a much better story.

 

Hits also doesn't equate to snarl.  People clearly like Zadorov because of his size and intimidation factor.  You know who hits more than Zadorov?  Jeremy Lauzon in NAS.  Do you think people would be willing to pay Lauzon $5M AAV because of the number of hits he has? 

 

Bottomline is we don't NEED Zadorov to be a successful team.  We don't NEED snarl.  We need defencemen that defend well, and can move the puck well... BUT AT A REASONABLE PRICE.

[PhillipBlunt]

15 minutes ago, HKSR said:

You can't look at total hits in the playoffs as an indicator.  They played more games than all the other teams, so their stats are naturally higher.  I'd be interested in seeing hits per game.  That tells a much better story.

 

Hits also doesn't equate to snarl.  People clearly like Zadorov because of his size and intimidation factor.  You know who hits more than Zadorov?  Jeremy Lauzon in NAS.  Do you think people would be willing to pay Lauzon $5M AAV because of the number of hits he has?

It's not a simple as "Zadorov is big". He showed layers to his game since coming to Vancouver. Being very solid in his own end, using his body and stick to take the puck out of trouble. He made smooth passes out of the d-zone numerous times that were tape to tape. He skates extremely well for a player of his size and scored some huge goals in the playoffs. Lauzon's hits had nowhere near the impact as Zadorov's because of the size difference and because Zadorov is one of the best hitters in the game. He times them beautifully to deliver maximum impact, which often sent the receiver of the hit to the bench for repairs. Lauzon's most notable hit was an illegal hit on Pettersson, after a Nashville goal. 

15 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

Bottomline is we don't NEED Zadorov to be a successful team.  We don't NEED snarl.  We need defencemen that defend well, and can move the puck well... BUT AT A REASONABLE PRICE.

Teams that go into the playoffs without players that can provide that "snarl" don't go far in the playoffs. To think that the Canucks don't need that aspect to their game is ridiculous. Did you not see how ineffective and soft the team was over the last decade? 

Edited Wednesday at 06:43 PM by PhillipBlunt

[AnthonyG]

27 minutes ago, HKSR said:

You can't look at total hits in the playoffs as an indicator.  They played more games than all the other teams

Umm yes I can because the point you missed was… where is Edmontons representation? They played more games than Florida… surely they should be somewhat close in hits… they aren’t even on the fuckin radar after 23 games.  Which is why I showed both total hits and in the finals.

 

Florida had its snarl all up front, they delivered punishing hits all series and all playoffs, they beat down the opposing teams dmen and their dmen don’t need “snarl” if they take away the middle of the ice and force you wide and into the corners and punish you down low and box you out. There are very very few Prongers and Chara’s around nowadays. 
 

 

Edited Wednesday at 06:55 PM by AnthonyG

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

It's not a simple as "Zadorov is big". He showed layers to his game since coming to Vancouver. Being very solid in his own end, using his body and stick to take the puck out of trouble. He made smooth passes out of the d-zone numerous times that were tape to tape. He skates extremely well for a player of his size and scored some huge goals in the playoffs. Lauzon's hits had nowhere near the impact as Zadorov's because of the size difference and because Zadorov is one of the best hitters in the game. He times them beautifully to deliver maximum impact, which often sent the receiver of the hit to the bench for repairs. Lauzon's most notable hit was an illegal hit on Pettersson, after a Nashville goal. 

Teams that go into the playoffs without players that can provide that "snarl" don't go far in the playoffs. To think that the Canucks don't need that aspect to their game is ridiculous. Did you not see how ineffective and soft the team was over the last decade? 

But again, I refer you to FLA and EDM.  They were the ones in the finals because of their defensive abilities, not their snarl.  Like you said, hitting isn't the same as snarl.  FLA and EDM may have some guys that hit regularly, but they are not Zadorov hits. 

 

If I had the option of paying Zadorov $5.25M or Matt Roy $5.25M, I go with Roy every single time. 

 

Don't get me wrong.  I love Big Z... but the price that it sounds like it would cost to keep him is too much for what he actually brings as a defenceman. 

[HKSR]

Just now, AnthonyG said:

Umm yes I can’t because the point you missed was… where is Edmontons representation? They played more games than Florida… surely they should be somewhat close in hits… they aren’t even on the fuckin radar after 23 games.  Which is why I showed both total hits and in the finals.

 

Florida had its snarl all up front, they delivered punishing hits all series and all playoffs, they beat down the opposing teams dmen and their dmen don’t need “snarl” if they take away the middle of the ice and force you wide and into the corners and punish you down low and box you out. There are very very few Prongers and Chara’s around nowadays. 
 

 

Yes, I agree the forwards need more snarl than the defencemen.  It helps so much if forwards fly in on the forecheck and deliver hits along the boards to free up pucks.  Defencemen on the other hand just need some size to help box out.  They don't NEED to hit with snarl.  Juulsen hits like a truck, but it ends up putting him out of position.  It happened with Soucy as well and led to a goal against.  That's what I'm trying to say... Zadorov is a 'nice to have'.  Not a necessity... especially by the sounds of it, his cap hit would be north of $5M.  I really don't know how we justify that when guys like DeMelo just signed for under $5M.