[Signing] Flames sign D Joni Jurmo

[Pears]

35 minutes ago, Canuck You said:

TBH we prob can't re-sign him anyways, It was a let's go all in move, Still clears up cap space for the future  thanks to Kuz. Win some, lose some..last I checked Kesler was a 3rd liner for awhile also..Judge Lindy after the p/o.

We'll have at least $28 million in cap space. Re-signing him won't be an issue unless he wants something absurd. 

[BC_Hawk]

11 hours ago, PureQuickness said:

 

It's weird that you're deliberately downplaying the returns (two of which Calgary re-signed), while also downplaying the 1st round pick.

 

Lindholm is doing (almost) nothing right now. If he walks, we lost the trade officially. If we re-sign it with his current production, it's an overpayment, depending on how much. I think 3M is too much for what he brings currently. Almost no offense (at least on paper), but I am seeing better chemistry with other players. I'm not knocking on the player anymore than I am now. I hope that he brings more to the table, but you're so biased right now.

I'm not sure what games you are watching, but Lindholm brings a lot to the canucks, just not in the goal column. He would have been a welcome addition to the defensive game last, and his FO prowess noticeable.  He is a player that brings a ton every night, but not flashy.

 

And I'm not deliberately downplaying the trade, just that people make it out that we traded a top 10 first Rounder and a Blue Chip prospect for him; both are wrong. Unfortunately for PA he took a swing on Kuzmenko (rightfully so after his first half of season last year), and it didn't work out. In order to free up cap to resign key guys this summer, he had to richen the pot to acquire a player he had been reportably been chasing since last year.

[canucks curse]

Defense wins championships 

Lindy once a bit healthier should be pretty effective in the playoffs - his career depends on it because unless he goes beast mode defensively or starts to pile up the points he’s looking at a sub 5 million AAV 

[PureQuickness]

2 hours ago, BC_Hawk said:

I'm not sure what games you are watching, but Lindholm brings a lot to the canucks, just not in the goal column. He would have been a welcome addition to the defensive game last, and his FO prowess noticeable.  He is a player that brings a ton every night, but not flashy.

 

And I'm not deliberately downplaying the trade, just that people make it out that we traded a top 10 first Rounder and a Blue Chip prospect for him; both are wrong. Unfortunately for PA he took a swing on Kuzmenko (rightfully so after his first half of season last year), and it didn't work out. In order to free up cap to resign key guys this summer, he had to richen the pot to acquire a player he had been reportably been chasing since last year.

 

The trade is still objectively a bad one. The expectation was that Lindholm would be able to play centre, generate some offense while being defensively responsible. He's fulfilled maybe one-third to one-half of his advertised duties. So yes, the trade is an L right now, no matter how you spin it.

 

1st round picks are not nothing, even if they are low.

Hunter B is a promising prospect (yes, just a prospect, no guarantee) that may or may not outlast Lindholm's career in the NHL

Kuzmenko is a roster player (sure, just count him as a throw-in for the sake of discussion)

Jurmo is a C tier prospect.

 

But Calgary just re-signed Jurmo and Hunter. That's already two pieces they got from a player that wanted out.

 

Do you see how much of a loss this trade was already? It might not necessarily be a monumental loss, but it's a loss.

 

Right now, I'm just hoping Lindholm turns it around for the playoffs. I don't want to be negative to him anymore, especially since he admits that he hasn't been playing well. He is frustrated, much like Mikheyev was, and I was oddly very supportive of Mikheyev.

 

While this may not necessarily work out had these players been traded to the Canucks: Monahan, Guentzel, Kuznetsov, and so forth, have all been doing well on their respective teams. I can understand not trading for Kuznetsov, likely for cap reasons, but I would imagine our trade offers would still be better than a 3rd round pick. The only other reason is the question mark character.

Edited March 26 by PureQuickness

[PureQuickness]

8 hours ago, Pears said:

We'll have at least $28 million in cap space. Re-signing him won't be an issue unless he wants something absurd. 

 

Would you want to re-sign him? I don't think I want him back even for 3M due to the fact that he hasn't been a fit at all (for whatever reason). I was pretty excited about this trade and somewhat let down because I wanted Monahan. However, my mom REALLY wanted Monahan and thought he'd be a good fit for the Canucks. Seems like she knew more about Lindholm/Monahan more than our pro scouts.

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

Would you want to re-sign him? I don't think I want him back even for 3M due to the fact that he hasn't been a fit at all (for whatever reason). I was pretty excited about this trade and somewhat let down because I wanted Monahan. However, my mom REALLY wanted Monahan and thought he'd be a good fit for the Canucks. Seems like she knew more about Lindholm/Monahan more than our pro scouts.

[Pears]

44 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

Would you want to re-sign him? I don't think I want him back even for 3M due to the fact that he hasn't been a fit at all (for whatever reason). I was pretty excited about this trade and somewhat let down because I wanted Monahan. However, my mom REALLY wanted Monahan and thought he'd be a good fit for the Canucks. Seems like she knew more about Lindholm/Monahan more than our pro scouts.

Seems like she ignored the fact right shot centers who win faceoffs at a near 60% clip while engaging physically are far more valuable than one dimensional left shot centers. Not to mention we have a better overall record since getting Lindholm than the Jets have since getting Monahan.  

[PureQuickness]

7 minutes ago, Pears said:

Seems like she ignored the fact right shot centers who win faceoffs at a near 60% clip while engaging physically are far more valuable than one dimensional left shot centers. Not to mention we have a better overall record since getting Lindholm than the Jets have since getting Monahan.  

 

Faceoffs are an important part, but it's maybe a 10 second process that briefly determines whether the zone is in the back of the net, or somewhere else. I'm not downplaying their significance, but it's important to know that what happens AFTER the faceoff matters a lot more.

 

Left or right hand shot, the reality is that Monahan objectively has done more for his team than Lindholm has with ours. And that's hard to ignore. The stats tell it all. And while Monahan has been invisible in games, he's AT LEAST put up points and isn't a minus player.

 

All I'm saying is that Lindholm hasn't done as much as his other trade counterparts. Is he useless? No, but he's been an underwhelming return so far. I really hope he had just been playing through an injury and that some rest will do him good. I don't WANT an injured Lindholm on the roster. I want a healthy Lindholm who can help this team make a push through the playoffs and shut all the 'haters' up including me.

Edited March 26 by PureQuickness

[Coryberg]

12 hours ago, PureQuickness said:

Do you see how much of a loss this trade was already? It might not necessarily be a monumental loss, but it's a loss.

Wait... our seasons over already? I thought we still had games to play and a playoff run!!! Damn it!!!!

[PureQuickness]

14 hours ago, Coryberg said:

Wait... our seasons over already? I thought we still had games to play and a playoff run!!! Damn it!!!!

 

No, it's a loss when you have Lindholm who is doing 1/3 of what he was advertised to do. I doubt we are rushing to re-sign him based on the performance he's shown so far. That being said, he might be injured and that could explain why he's been doing so poorly on a high octane team.

 

I'm still holding on the idea that he will be big in the playoffs. I REALLY hope he does. I really want to win the cup - and if he can score a BIG playoff goal, all things are forgiven.

[Coryberg]

47 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

No, it's a loss when you have Lindholm who is doing 1/3 of what he was advertised to do. I doubt we are rushing to re-sign him based on the performance he's shown so far. That being said, he might be injured and that could explain why he's been doing so poorly on a high octane team.

 

I'm still holding on the idea that he will be big in the playoffs. I REALLY hope he does. I really want to win the cup - and if he can score a BIG playoff goal, all things are forgiven.

So maybe chill out on the "this trade is a loss already". Lindholm could be a hugely piece in our playoff run or maybe he is just malhotra 2.0 for us.

 

The flip side the late late 1st pick can easily be a miss, Jonni Jurmo never makes it out of the AHL and Brzustewicz never improves his skating enough to be a nhl regular. 

 

Way too early to call the race.

[PureQuickness]

8 hours ago, Coryberg said:

So maybe chill out on the "this trade is a loss already". Lindholm could be a hugely piece in our playoff run or maybe he is just malhotra 2.0 for us.

 

The flip side the late late 1st pick can easily be a miss, Jonni Jurmo never makes it out of the AHL and Brzustewicz never improves his skating enough to be a nhl regular. 

 

Way too early to call the race.

 

I get it. All of it could be for naught, but currently, the trade has been pretty terrible so far. That is the reality. It's a lopsided trade thus far for Calgary. It's not even CLOSE to being an even trade.

 

It's like the Forsling trade. It's so ridiculously lopsided now.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, PureQuickness said:

 

I get it. All of it could be for naught, but currently, the trade has been pretty terrible so far. That is the reality. It's a lopsided trade thus far for Calgary. It's not even CLOSE to being an even trade.

 

It's like the Forsling trade. It's so ridiculously lopsided now.

One thing you are forgetting is we traded Kuzmenko’s full cap hit to Calgary for a pending UFA in Lindholm. So we effectively opened up $5.5 million in cap space for next season if Lindholm walks. 
 

Freeing up $5.5 million in cap space costs a first round pick. So trading Kuzmenko plus the first just to get rid of his salary is a fair trade. So effectively we got a rental in Lindholm for a 4th round pick and two prospects. 
 

If we don’t win the cup and Lindholm walks then we at least have that extra $5.5 million in cap space in the summer that Kuzmenko was taking up to sign the rest of our free agents. 

Edited March 28 by Elias Pettersson

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

One thing you are forgetting is we traded Kuzmenko’s full cap hit to Calgary for a pending UFA in Lindholm. So we effectively opened up $5.5 million in cap space for next season if Lindholm walks. 
 

Freeing up $5.5 million in cap space costs a first round pick. So trading Kuzmenko plus the first just to get rid of his salary is a fair trade. So effectively we got a rental in Lindholm for a 4th round pick and two prospects. 
 

If we don’t win the cup and Lindholm walks then we at least have that extra $5.5 million in cap space in the summer that Kuzmenko was taking up to sign the rest of our free agents. 

Exactly! Lindholm cost Bustowitz and Jarmoo. Two very iffy prospects. He was pretty much free. 

[Bob Long]

6 hours ago, Alflives said:

Exactly! Lindholm cost Bustowitz and Jarmoo. Two very iffy prospects. He was pretty much free. 

 

It's a shame Lindholm appears to be injured, but nothing we traded would have impacted this years performance. Just some bad luck there.

[PureQuickness]

10 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

One thing you are forgetting is we traded Kuzmenko’s full cap hit to Calgary for a pending UFA in Lindholm. So we effectively opened up $5.5 million in cap space for next season if Lindholm walks. 
 

Freeing up $5.5 million in cap space costs a first round pick. So trading Kuzmenko plus the first just to get rid of his salary is a fair trade. So effectively we got a rental in Lindholm for a 4th round pick and two prospects. 
 

If we don’t win the cup and Lindholm walks then we at least have that extra $5.5 million in cap space in the summer that Kuzmenko was taking up to sign the rest of our free agents. 

 

I understand that. So this means that Kuzmenkov ended up being a mistake re-signing in hindsight. Additionally, and this is not the exact comparison, Kuznetsov's 7.8 cap (retaining 50 percent) was traded for a 3rd round pick.

 

The 1st round pick was obviously due to Lindholm being sold the idea that he's good. Kuznetsov was sold pennies to the dollar, but cap hit releases CAN be done without a 1st round pick.

 

You don't purposefully make a trade for a dud that gives you cap space. Lindholm obviously hasn't been working out (so far).

Edited March 28 by PureQuickness

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, PureQuickness said:

 

I understand that. So this means that Kuzmenkov ended up being a mistake re-signing in hindsight. Additionally, and this is not the exact comparison, Kuznetsov's 7.8 cap (retaining 50 percent) was traded for a 3rd round pick.

 

The 1st round pick was obviously due to Lindholm being sold the idea that he's good. Kuznetsov was sold pennies to the dollar, but cap hit releases CAN be done without a 1st round pick.

 

You don't purposefully make a trade for a dud that gives you cap space. Lindholm obviously hasn't been working out (so far).

 

nothing in the deal was high value, it was like Calgary going to Costco. Lots of cheap packages.

 

It sucks that he's injured, but maybe we'll be lucky and he'll be OK enough for the playoffs? 

[PureQuickness]

8 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

nothing in the deal was high value, it was like Calgary going to Costco. Lots of cheap packages.

 

It sucks that he's injured, but maybe we'll be lucky and he'll be OK enough for the playoffs? 

 

It's just a dishonest narrative though. Every media outlet said that we had a good player. At the same time, every media outlet ALSO said we paid the highest price compared to everyone else. Then if you look at it objectively, he has produced LESS than everyone else that got traded.

 

Then take into account that Calgary re-signed two pieces from the trade, plus there's a 1st round pick (which is just a pick and not guaranteed), matched with Lindholm's current production (and injury), this has not been a good trade at all and it's not a good comparison to Costco, where you AT LEAST get value sometimes.

 

Not sure why people will try and pretend this trade is still good. That being said, despite what I said above, I sure hope he recovers from the injury. I'm not criticizing the trade or hoping that it's bad for any malicious reason. I'm just calling it for what it is - a bad trade SO FAR. But hey, if he recovers from his injury and plays like a beast in the playoffs, I'm ALL for it. I want the Canucks to win and I wanted the Canucks to win their side of the trade. It just hasn't happened so far and it's so frustrating. We NEED Lindholm if he's supposed to be good. AND we need Pettersson.

[Bob Long]

13 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

It's just a dishonest narrative though. Every media outlet said that we had a good player. At the same time, every media outlet ALSO said we paid the highest price compared to everyone else. Then if you look at it objectively, he has produced LESS than everyone else that got traded.

 

Then take into account that Calgary re-signed two pieces from the trade, plus there's a 1st round pick (which is just a pick and not guaranteed), matched with Lindholm's current production (and injury), this has not been a good trade at all and it's not a good comparison to Costco, where you AT LEAST get value sometimes.

 

Not sure why people will try and pretend this trade is still good. That being said, despite what I said above, I sure hope he recovers from the injury. I'm not criticizing the trade or hoping that it's bad for any malicious reason. I'm just calling it for what it is - a bad trade SO FAR. But hey, if he recovers from his injury and plays like a beast in the playoffs, I'm ALL for it. I want the Canucks to win and I wanted the Canucks to win their side of the trade. It just hasn't happened so far and it's so frustrating. We NEED Lindholm if he's supposed to be good. AND we need Pettersson.

 

there's nothing dishonest about it, he is, when healthy, the best player and also the right type of player for us, a RHC.

 

[higgyfan]

In the end, I don't think the trade hurts Vancouver.  They specifically wanted Lindy for the

right-handed face offs and his defensive game.  He hasn't brought his offense so far, but

he has clearly helped the team's overall PK and defense.

 

The Canucks would have lost their 1st rounder to beef up the top 6 anyway, while unloading

Kuzy's contract will be a plus for next season.

 

I think Hunter might make the NHL, but it will take a long while for that to happen.  The Canucks

have other LD prospects that tend to be more of the defensive dman style with a physical game.

 

LD Jurmo has more of a physical game than Hunter, but again, the Canucks

have a bounty of LD prospects: D-Petey, Mynio, Kudryavtsev, Truscott and Dorrington.

All of these players are big bodied, tough dmen that will likely get a chance to develop in

the Canuck system.  Brisebois has already proven he can play in the NHL, but Hirose's chance

may diminish due to his small stature.

 

The Canucks were certainly in the position to make the trade without threatening their LD

prospect pool.