OMG Gender Diversity! Thread

[Petey the Puck Whisperer]

Its not my job to make you believe your fantasy.

[Sabrefan1]

7 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

why would anyone get mad, tho, particularly if someone doesn't really care one way or another? 

 

If people don't want to have basic respect for others and refuse to accept their identity, thats kind of being a dick don't you think? I mean what basis does anyone really have for denying how a person views themselves?

 

 

Why does anyone get mad about things that they can't control over a message board?  I dunno.  Anger makes people say things they otherwise wouldn't usually say.  Oftentimes it's the truth.  Sometimes it's an unfortunate attempt at hurting someone.  You've seen it here and IRL I don't doubt.

 

More than one warning point and ban has been handed out over arguments here over what should be the most mundane of things.

[Zombieksa]

I look at it like this.

Do you want people to be who they think they are?

Or

 

Do you want people to be who you think they should be?

Think hard. There is only one right answer to this question.

[Sharpshooter]

6 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

I'm reporting everyone including you

 

I want bans

[Mike Vanderhoek]

9 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

OK, and? who cares? 

I would think a lot of females competing would or should care. Some can lose not only competitions but education and financial opportunities by losing to a trans person. As was said it is not really fair.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

9 hours ago, PureQuickness said:

The whole many genders concept is very foreign to me, but I'm willing to respect someone's views about themselves. It's none of my business how they run their lives. We have freedom of speech and freedom of expression, both of which many spoiled people take for granted. It's laughable to hear people say Canada is "dystopian" or "communist". These people calling the country as this obviously can't recognize what is an ACTUAL dystopian state. I would say the US is pretty dystopian to me, but rarely will you have those same people point that out.

 

We do not have freedom of speech in Canada. We have a law against hate speech which can now be a criminal offence to not acknowledge and call someone by their preferences. 

 

The US has freedom of speech. Canada doesn't even have parental rights, crazy world we live in.

[elvis15]

13 hours ago, -AJ- said:

 

This is probably the best way to handle it I think.

And that's basically it; whatever argument people have against a trans person competing against other CIS gendered people is something those sports have typically already accounted for. There is a higher percentage chance that Sean Combs will do something to their daughters than a man faking being trans to compete in women's sports.

[Bob Long]

9 hours ago, Pianoman said:

There’s been many. Primarily in college sports, but others as well.
 

Of course this is where the defenders of women’s sports come out. This is where it needs to be defended lol, especially at the university level since universities are generally doing nothing to protect it. 
 

Many people are refusing to believe the science in front of their eyes that a biological male has an advantage in women’s sports, regardless of whatever hormones they are taking. It’s fact. Do you dispute that? From your first post it seems that you didn’t realize that. I linked a study in a previous message. I can also send many more that all say the same thing.

 

Yea I do get suspicious when people trot out "the science" in these threads.

[Bob Long]

3 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

I would think a lot of females competing would or should care. Some can lose not only competitions but education and financial opportunities by losing to a trans person. As was said it is not really fair.

 

But is this really happening? Or is it one of these social media arguments that has few real instances? 

[bishopshodan]

8 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

But is this really happening? Or is it one of these social media arguments that has few real instances? 

That's what I mentioned in my first response to you.

 

Does that mean that the convo shouldn't happen?

Setting up a fair system for all is never a bad thing IMO.

 

That is what I question, fairness.

i believe that as genetic males develop throughtout their lives, they benefit from homones and physiological development in a way that females dont. Benefits that provide an advantage when applied to most sports.

If that person then transitions, say around 18 years old, they could have an advantage over the other females in their catagory. IF that one day results in genetically born females losing out on scholarships then I, again, question the fairness. 

Edited March 27 by bishopshodan

[Heretic]

13 hours ago, Snoop Hogg said:

It’s a shame that in 2024, that transphobia, along with racism, is still a thing.

I don't know if this is the answer, but I have thought for a long time that we need to stop labeling each other into containers that not all fit into.

We are one race, the Human race.  Why can't we celebrate that instead of individual.

As Michael Jackson sang, it doesn't matter if you're black or white... 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

That's what I mentioned in my first response to you.

 

Does that mean that the convo shouldn't happen?

Setting up a fair system for all is never a bad thing IMO.

 

That is what I question, fairness.

i believe that as genetic males develop throughtout their lives, they benefit from homones and physiological development in a way that females dont. Benefits that provide an advantage when applied to most sports.

If that person then transitions, say around 18 years old, they could have an advantage over the other females in their catagory. IF that one day reuslts in gentically born females losing out on scholarships then I, again, question the fairness. 

 

We'd have to have an honest assessment of it. Do people still fall in a usual range of performance after transitioning? It certainly won't be figured out on social media.

 

I just think it's funny that all these defenders(not putting you in that camp btw) come out for this issue, but couldn't care less about other things like pay equity.

[Bob Long]

12 minutes ago, Heretic said:

I don't know if this is the answer, but I have thought for a long time that we need to stop labeling each other into containers that not all fit into.

We are one race, the Human race.  Why can't we celebrate that instead of individual.

As Michael Jackson sang, it doesn't matter if you're black or white... 

 

For some folks that's an unsettling idea. 

[bishopshodan]

12 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

We'd have to have an honest assessment of it. Do people still fall in a usual range of performance after transitioning? It certainly won't be figured out on social media.

 

I just think it's funny that all these defenders(not putting you in that camp btw) come out for this issue, but couldn't care less about other things like pay equity.

 

My belief is that there is still a difference. Is that difference an advantage? my thought is that it likely is.

 

I have a long history being around the LGBT community. 25 years living in the westend, working pride parades and gay clubs. Many good friends.

 

As you point out, some people come out of the woodwork to grumble but these topics are hot right now. I really appreciate the folks that are willing to discusse concerns honestly. Finding common ground is not common these days. Conversation could calm some fears and hopefully reduce hate and suffering.

Having TS pop in this thread is awesome for example. I hope she keeps giving us insight like the medical hormone info she presented on the last page.

Edited March 27 by bishopshodan

[Bob Long]

Just now, bishopshodan said:

 

My belief is that there is still a difference. Is that difference an advantage? my thought is that it likely is.

 

There has to be an objective way of determining this. That should lead the discussion of how to handle sport fairness.

 

Not the "but my science says" social media back and forth.

 

Just now, bishopshodan said:

I have a long history being around the LGBT community. 25 years living in the westend, working pride prades and gay clubs. Many good friends.

 

As you point out, some people come out of the woodwork to grumble but these topics are hot right now. I really appreciate the folks that are willing to discusse concerns honestly. Finding common ground is not common these days. Conversation could calm some fears and hopefully reduce hate and suffering.

Having TS pop in this thread is awesome for example. I hope she keeps giving us insight like the medical hormone info she presented on the last page.

 

Yep these threads need more input from people with lived experience.

[Maninthebox]

I think the sport aspect is certainly worth discussing. I have personally only known two trans people, and I met them both through hockey. 

[elvis15]

40 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

That's what I mentioned in my first response to you.

 

Does that mean that the convo shouldn't happen?

Setting up a fair system for all is never a bad thing IMO.

 

That is what I question, fairness.

i believe that as genetic males develop throughtout their lives, they benefit from homones and physiological development in a way that females dont. Benefits that provide an advantage when applied to most sports.

If that person then transitions, say around 18 years old, they could have an advantage over the other females in their catagory. IF that one day results in genetically born females losing out on scholarships then I, again, question the fairness. 

But at what percentage of this kind of thing happening should we really worry about it that it creates this much discussion? There are plenty of checks and balances in place already and anyone losing out on a scholarship or even medal was just as likely to lose out because of a cis-gendered person.

Edited March 27 by elvis15

[elvis15]

This tends to devolve into the sports argument rather than the overall topic (with a smattering of "don't push that in my face/make me believe what you do"), but my point above is it's such a small percentage in general and in sports that it isn't really worth how much it's discussed. But the people against it really love to talk about it, case in point:

 

 

[bishopshodan]

17 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

But at what percentage of this kind of thing happening should we really worry about it that it creates this much discussion? There are plenty of checks and balances in place already and anyone losing out on a scholarship or even medal was just as likely to lose out because of a cis-gendered person.

This is the first time I have seen this topic come up on cdc/cff. I dont have social media so I havent been part of any other discussion.

 

The percentage of how much it happens isn't the point, I simply have curiosities about fairness. This angle about sports is the only place where I have questions.

 

Otherwise I am all for inclusion. It's 2024. Live and let live. 

[Bob Long]

12 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

This tends to devolve into the sports argument rather than the overall topic (with a smattering of "don't push that in my face/make me believe what you do"), but my point above is it's such a small percentage in general and in sports that it isn't really worth how much it's discussed. But the people against it really love to talk about it, case in point:

 

 

 

Yep it is a favorite topic for some. Let's ask women in north America if they want this issue handled first or pay equity. See where the fearless bathroom defenders are on that issue. 

[King Heffy]

4 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

 

We do not have freedom of speech in Canada. We have a law against hate speech which can now be a criminal offence to not acknowledge and call someone by their preferences. 

 

The US has freedom of speech. Canada doesn't even have parental rights, crazy world we live in.

Parents have all the rights they need in Canada.  We do have laws in place to protect children from abusive parents; I don't think that's crazy.

[Bob Long]

4 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

 

We do not have freedom of speech in Canada. We have a law against hate speech which can now be a criminal offence to not acknowledge and call someone by their preferences. 

 

The US has freedom of speech. Canada doesn't even have parental rights, crazy world we live in.

 

I see you have bitten hard on Poilievres messaging. None of that is accurate.

[Provost]

14 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I am an old school small c Conservative.

 

If your lifestyle is such that it bothers people.  So what.

 

If you decide you don't identify as the gender you were born with?  K.

 

Do you feel more comfortable using the bathroom of another gender other than what you were born with?  I don't care, make sure you flush and wash your hands.

 

Want to change everything about yourself because you don't feel like what you were born as?  Cool, don't be an asshole about it though because Id on't care.

 

This is the fundamental truth and issue.  I DON"T CARE just don't be an asshole.  The moment you start shoving it in my face like a religion though or making every aspect of your life about this to the extent you have no other identity or offer to the world.  Then we have a problem.

 

Again, be who you want to be; just don't fucking bother me while I am eating and don't be an asshole about it because it doesn't affect me in any way, shape or form and as long as you're happier in your decision; nothing else matters.

I am an old school Red Tory (no longer exists in the political world).

I agree most of what you posted, except some folks seems to think that by queer people existing or holding hands/kissing in public it is shoving it in their faces (where hetero public displays of affection go unremarked).

I find people who construct their entire identities around their sex/gender pretty boring in general.  If you are a dude and all you have to offer is talking about drinking beer and banging chicks... I probably am not enjoying your company either.

I remember when TV and movies moved beyond having the "gay" character to having characters that happened to be gay.  That is the social progress I liked to see.

Drag storytime... go if you want, don't go if you don't want.
Pride Parade... they advertise is pretty darn well in advance and you can avoid that street if it bothers you
See someone kissing on the streets... don't particularly care regardless of your sex/gender.  Just pull off to the side and don't block the sidewalk so I can get through.

I do my best to understand and want folks to feel happy, safe, and have equal rights.  If I misgender you or don't put my gender on my business card, or use LGBTQ vs. the most up to date version of it with extra letters that I can't remember, or don't use the right words... try to show me some grace, same as I do to you.  I am now an old dude, our fight was gay rights and we did pretty darn well in a pretty short time making a lot of progress.  If you are younger and understand trans and non binary issues better than I do, then take up that torch and keep pushing civil rights.  
 

[bishopshodan]

I just read this.

Didn't know anything about the Lia thomas thing. Or about this civil rights lawyer. Just posting for the sports part of this discussion. 

 

https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/sex-matters-why-transgender-athletes-must-not-compete-against-biological-females/

Inclusion and fairness are two vital values in the world of sports.

Transgender women should be allowed to compete in women’s athletics, so long as these individuals can show that they’ve mitigated the athletic advantages that come with male puberty. As an Olympic champion and as a civil rights lawyer, I can assure you that there was nothing fair about transgender woman Lia Thomas competing for the University of Pennsylvania in NCAA swimming. Worse, her domination of the ‘women’s sports’ category has done nothing to engender greater empathy for inclusive practices throughout society for the trans community.

[Snoop Hogg]

57 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I don't see this ending well for you....

This is how I picture it: