King Heffy Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 7 minutes ago, madrigal77 said: Common sense. All of human history. The fact that we separate woman's and mens sports for fairness. I shouldn't even have to post a link because anyone with a functioning brain should know all this, but if you REALLY need it, here you go. https://fairplayforwomen.com/biological-sex-differences/#:~:text=Females generally have 40% less,HAVE LOWER BODY STRENGTH ADVANTAGE. https://rgellman.medium.com/lies-damn-lies-and-gender-critical-statistics-13e7003dfd4 One of there favourite moves is to quote this piece of information from the Ministry of Justice obtained by Fair Play for Women (a known anti-trans hate group that does no actual work in advancing women’s equality) under the Freedom of Information Act: I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. Do you have a real, legitimate source, or do you expect people to take anything said by these bigots seriously? Edited March 27 by King Heffy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 46 minutes ago, madrigal77 said: Give me a break. Mens muscle mass is different. Bone structure, etc.. This is insanity. Just stop. It's science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 34 minutes ago, 112 said: It always evolves into a discussion on trans women in female competitive sports. I'd wager this is because it's the only area where the anti-trans crowd sort of has a point. That and being bathroom defenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Vanderhoek Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 hours ago, King Heffy said: Parents have all the rights they need in Canada. We do have laws in place to protect children from abusive parents; I don't think that's crazy. I think it is fair and ok to discuss parent's rights and if they indeed do have all the rights and supports they need in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, Gnarcore said: Like many things in life..it varies per case. There are a few examples in sports of a trans women competing that resulted in absolute ridiculous outcomes. Lia Thomas has been mentioned....a very poorly rated swimmer as a male and then transitions mid college and sets women's records. By several accounts she was in the female locker room pre meets dong out and making a lot of the other competitors uncomfortable. Now I can't recall if it was via behaviour or just them being put off by a trans female in the room. But a 6 foot plus Lia was racing people a foot smaller. Frame matters A LOT in swimming. Then look up Falon Fox who competed in MMA...now that was absolute bullshit. I think you have seen enough of my post history to know I am not hating on any group except Flames fans but transwomen in sports is an issue as far as integrity of sport goes with no clear or comfortable solution right now. Unfortunately you get assholes in every walk of life. It's really the rare incident right now on this issue, but people like Joe Rogan make it sound like an invasion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: I think it is fair and ok to discuss parent's rights and if they indeed do have all the rights and supports they need in Canada. Should that discussion be In this thread or another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Strawbone Posted March 27 Popular Post Share Posted March 27 I do think that some/many people have an innate negative response to seeing gay or transgender people, simply because the majority of people are heterosexual since that's how evolution through procreation works. It's in our DNA to want to procreate, and that biologically requires a man and a woman. I've certainly always had a bit of a cringe response to seeing men kissing or openly transgender people. It's weird to me. It doesn't make me angry or want to change them, but... yeah, my immediate reaction is that it's weird behaviour that seems unnatural. Now over the years I've learned that it's NOT unnatural and that it's very much a learned skill to fully accept everyone for who they are, as long as they are not hurting anyone else. And kissing in public or dressing strangely or identifying differently from your birth gender is NOT hurting anyone. The more it's out in the open, the more it will become normalized and that's a very good thing. I don't feel like there's some epidemic of LGBTQ traits spreading through society, people are just able to be much more open about it than in the past, and I suspect there is some sort of biological cap on what percentage of people will ever identify as LGBTQ, and I suspect it will always be a minority. As the world becomes ever more diverse and mixed in terms of race, culture, and sexuality, these issues will just fade away. Bars will start looking like the Star Wars Cantina and everyone will be cool with it. 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 5 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: I think it is fair and ok to discuss parent's rights and if they indeed do have all the rights and supports they need in Canada. Ok, what rights do you think they're missing in Canada? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureQuickness Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 8 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: We do not have freedom of speech in Canada. We have a law against hate speech which can now be a criminal offence to not acknowledge and call someone by their preferences. The US has freedom of speech. Canada doesn't even have parental rights, crazy world we live in. When I'm talking about freedom of speech, I'm talking about freedom to criticize government. The US doesn't completely have a freedom of speech either. Many states have a clause where you can't threaten a group (similar to the hate speech law) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, Strawbone said: I do think that some/many people have an innate negative response to seeing gay or transgender people, simply because the majority of people are heterosexual since that's how evolution through procreation works. It's in our DNA to want to procreate, and that biologically requires a man and a woman. I've certainly always had a bit of a cringe response to seeing men kissing or openly transgender people. It's weird to me. It doesn't make me angry or want to change them, but... yeah, my immediate reaction is that it's weird behaviour that seems unnatural. Now over the years I've learned that it's NOT unnatural and that it's very much a learned skill to fully accept everyone for who they are, as long as they are not hurting anyone else. And kissing in public or dressing strangely or identifying differently from your birth gender is NOT hurting anyone. The more it's out in the open, the more it will become normalized and that's a very good thing. I don't feel like there's some epidemic of LGBTQ traits spreading through society, people are just able to be much more open about it than in the past, and I suspect there is some sort of biological cap on what percentage of people will ever identify as LGBTQ, and I suspect it will always be a minority. As the world becomes ever more diverse and mixed in terms of race, culture, and sexuality, these issues will just fade away. Bars will start looking like the Star Wars Cantina and everyone will be cool with it. I agree completely. People have a right to be treated equally. They do not have a right to feel comfortable all the time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Vanderhoek Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 hours ago, Bob Long said: I see you have bitten hard on Poilievres messaging. None of that is accurate. Sorry not at all. A Canadian can be fined or jailed for refusing to use a persons preferred pronouns. It is considered criminal as it has been determined by law to be human rights discrimination. A business owner was fined $ 30,000.00 for his employees not referring to another by their pronouns on multiple occasions. An American can be arrested for inciting a criminal act through speech, otherwise is free to say as they please legally. Canadian parents start being limited in their parental rights as their child reaches the age of 14 years old. Arguably a time when our children may require parental support, guidance and stability at its highest form. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: Sorry not at all. A Canadian can be fined or jailed for refusing to use a persons preferred pronouns. It is considered criminal as it has been determined by law to be human rights discrimination. A business owner was fined $ 30,000.00 for his employees not referring to another by their pronouns on multiple occasions. An American can be arrested for inciting a criminal act through speech, otherwise is free to say as they please legally. Canadian parents start being limited in their parental rights as their child reaches the age of 14 years old. Arguably a time when our children may require parental support, guidance and stability at its highest form. Cheryl Milne, director of the Asper Centre for Constitutional Rights at the University of Toronto, stated that malicious use of misgendering pronouns could be part of the evidence to demonstrate an overall pattern of discrimination, but sending someone to jail is not a possible outcome for human rights complaints. More here: https://www.cbc.ca/cbcdocspov/features/canadas-gender-identity-rights-bill-c-16-explained 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarcore Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 26 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Unfortunately you get assholes in every walk of life. It's really the rare incident right now on this issue, but people like Joe Rogan make it sound like an invasion. OMG yes he does. I like Rogan's podcast but every freaking episode has turned into a rant on that and the benefits of cold plunges. Like dude..fuck off with your $25000 cold tub normal people ain't buying. I actually looked up the top countries by % of transgendered people. It is so low a % that it should barely be an issue. Sadly, that Lia Thomas saga made it so it was and was where I was like...ya that ain't fair competition. But the low % of population also makes a stand alone category unlikely. It is certainly a vocal small % of the population but they do have valid gripes and I can't imaging it is an easy road for many considering the self harm and suicide stats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mike Vanderhoek Posted March 27 Popular Post Share Posted March 27 7 minutes ago, Satchmo said: Cheryl Milne, director of the Asper Centre for Constitutional Rights at the University of Toronto, stated that malicious use of misgendering pronouns could be part of the evidence to demonstrate an overall pattern of discrimination, but sending someone to jail is not a possible outcome for human rights complaints. More here: https://www.cbc.ca/cbcdocspov/features/canadas-gender-identity-rights-bill-c-16-explained My apologies, I thank you for finding this article. I thought I had read this as correct prior on top of reading the case of the father in B.C. who was jailed for not acknowledging his transitioning child's pronouns which was later deemed to be him being jailed for continuing to speak after a court gag order. Thanks for your correction @Satchmo 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 14 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: Sorry not at all. A Canadian can be fined or jailed for refusing to use a persons preferred pronouns. It is considered criminal as it has been determined by law to be human rights discrimination. A business owner was fined $ 30,000.00 for his employees not referring to another by their pronouns on multiple occasions. That owner was being abusive. It's not as simple as some pronoun police are out there looking to get you. Please post the entire story if you are going to use it as an example. 14 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: An American can be arrested for inciting a criminal act through speech, otherwise is free to say as they please legally. The US also has labor laws. 14 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: Canadian parents start being limited in their parental rights as their child reaches the age of 14 years old. Arguably a time when our children may require parental support, guidance and stability at its highest form. What are you actually referring to here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Vanderhoek Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 17 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: Sorry not at all. A Canadian can be fined or jailed for refusing to use a persons preferred pronouns. It is considered criminal as it has been determined by law to be human rights discrimination. A business owner was fined $ 30,000.00 for his employees not referring to another by their pronouns on multiple occasions. An American can be arrested for inciting a criminal act through speech, otherwise is free to say as they please legally. Canadian parents start being limited in their parental rights as their child reaches the age of 14 years old. Arguably a time when our children may require parental support, guidance and stability at its highest form. I stand corrected, my apologies I did not read the correct information regarding jail time which is not the case. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, Gnarcore said: Like many things in life..it varies per case. There are a few examples in sports of a trans women competing that resulted in absolute ridiculous outcomes. Lia Thomas has been mentioned....a very poorly rated swimmer as a male and then transitions mid college and sets women's records. By several accounts she was in the female locker room pre meets dong out and making a lot of the other competitors uncomfortable. Now I can't recall if it was via behaviour or just them being put off by a trans female in the room. But a 6 foot plus Lia was racing people a foot smaller. Frame matters A LOT in swimming. Then look up Falon Fox who competed in MMA...now that was absolute bullshit. I think you have seen enough of my post history to know I am not hating on any group except Flames fans but transwomen in sports is an issue as far as integrity of sport goes with no clear or comfortable solution right now. I've come around on the Fallon Fox fights. Though I am surprised they get sanctioned and dont like it, the women fighting her know what they are getting into. They are pros. If someone wants to test themselves in a mismatch, then it's their life skull. 53 minutes ago, 112 said: It always evolves into a discussion on trans women in female competitive sports. I'd wager this is because it's the only area where the anti-trans crowd sort of has a point. Though I dont like the idea of being lumped into an 'anti-trans' crowd I appreciate that you mentioned what I have said also ITT. Female sports is a discussion and maybe the only one that has some real potential consequences for people's future ( scholarships etc...), as you say 'sorta has a point' To just diminish it, sweep it aside, because there hasn't been many instances, or scoff at anyone questioning if a couple years of hormones level the playing field is dishonest imo. It, again imo, actually just adds fuel to the fire. If people can iron out concerns where there is 'sorta a point' maybe more can relax when discussing areas of trans rights that lack legitimate 'points' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: I stand corrected, my apologies I did not read the correct information regarding jail time which is not the case. I'm glad you are big enough to not double down, that's how people will reach a consensus on these things. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarcore Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I've come around on the Fallon Fox fights. Though I am surprised they get sanctioned and dont like it, the women fighting her know what they are getting into. They are pros. If someone wants to test themselves in a mismatch, then it's their life skull. I don't recall if accurate but I think the first ones they didn't know. What I do know is it was low tier and they got fucked up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJVD Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said: Sorry not at all. A Canadian can be fined or jailed for refusing to use a persons preferred pronouns. It is considered criminal as it has been determined by law to be human rights discrimination. A business owner was fined $ 30,000.00 for his employees not referring to another by their pronouns on multiple occasions. An American can be arrested for inciting a criminal act through speech, otherwise is free to say as they please legally. Canadian parents start being limited in their parental rights as their child reaches the age of 14 years old. Arguably a time when our children may require parental support, guidance and stability at its highest form. Edit: another poster already said basicly the same thing and OP responded. No need for me to pile on. Edited March 27 by MattJVD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Strawbone Posted March 27 Popular Post Share Posted March 27 This discussion has actually remained surprisingly civil and levelheaded. Good job, everyone! 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 20 hours ago, Heretic said: Look, I'm all for gender identities - that are legitimate - but come on, some are ridiculous. Furries? Come on, and society has lost their minds - I heard today that back east, there are schools that provide large cat litter boxes for kids that say they are a furry. Unbelievable. Can evolution please reset. Literally no kids in schools using litterboxes, can't believe folks like you are still falling for this long debunked bullshit Edited March 27 by canuck73_3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 37 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Literally no kids in schools using litterboxes, can't believe folks like you are still falling for this long debunked bullshit One not look further than this thread to see how people treat each other - and they wonder why we still have issues in the world... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 minute ago, Heretic said: One not look further than this thread to see how people treat each other - and they wonder why we still have issues in the world... 44 minutes ago, Strawbone said: This discussion has actually remained surprisingly civil and levelheaded. Good job, everyone! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Heretic said: One not look further than this thread to see how people treat each other - and they wonder why we still have issues in the world... Ok? This but you commented on something as fact that doesn’t actually happen. It is mindless misinformation with zero benefit to being spread. Edited March 27 by canuck73_3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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