Popular Post 112 Posted March 27 Popular Post Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, bishopshodan said: I've come around on the Fallon Fox fights. Though I am surprised they get sanctioned and dont like it, the women fighting her know what they are getting into. They are pros. If someone wants to test themselves in a mismatch, then it's their life skull. Though I dont like the idea of being lumped into an 'anti-trans' crowd I appreciate that you mentioned what I have said also ITT. Female sports is a discussion and maybe the only one that has some real potential consequences for people's future ( scholarships etc...), as you say 'sorta has a point' To just diminish it, sweep it aside, because there hasn't been many instances, or scoff at anyone questioning if a couple years of hormones level the playing field is dishonest imo. It, again imo, actually just adds fuel to the fire. If people can iron out concerns where there is 'sorta a point' maybe more can relax when discussing areas of trans rights that lack legitimate 'points' You're absolutely not somebody I would lump into any 'anti-trans' crowd and that comment was not directed at you. I think trans competitors in sports can have unfair advantages, so I'm not trying to undermine points made about it. I just see the sports issue as very far outside of important discourse on transgender issues when most transgender people are simply vying for acceptance. 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Strawbone said: This discussion has actually remained surprisingly civil and levelheaded. Good job, everyone! You missed the one transphobic snowflake at the start-up, but overall not bad. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 3 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said: You missed the one transphobic snowflake at the start-up, but overall not bad. Apparently I missed most of that temper tantrum as well, as I saw the "quoted" posts but not most of the original posts (only the last 3 or 4 before they stopped posting). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 minute ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said: Apparently I missed most of that temper tantrum as well, as I saw the "quoted" posts but not most of the original posts (only the last 3 or 4 before they stopped posting). you didn't miss much, was pretty pathetic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 Just now, MeanSeanBean said: you didn't miss much, was pretty pathetic. I gathered as much based on the quoted posts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 4 hours ago, 112 said: It always evolves into a discussion on trans women in female competitive sports. I'd wager this is because it's the only area where the anti-trans crowd sort of has a point. I feel like this is almost 100% the truth. The only justifications for transphobia are religious (which of course no one agrees on anyway) or sports. It's a worthwhile thing to discuss, but it reality, it's an extraordinarily small part of the transgender world. An astronomically small number of trans women compete in sports competitively, especially at a high level. Most just want to live their lives like anybody else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maninthebox Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Well, what other issues would some of you prefer to discuss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 3 minutes ago, Maninthebox said: Well, what other issues would some of you prefer to discuss? How about how nature doesn't strictly define things in binary ways, as indicated in the original article in the first post of this thread? 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said: How about how nature doesn't strictly define things in binary ways whats interesting to me is, the folks really upset by your OP, is that they could choose to view this as an issue where we actually help find a solution. Instead they trot out the "my science" etc. and just refuse to acknowledge this basic fact about life. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: whats interesting to me is, the folks really upset by your OP, is that they could choose to view this as an issue where we actually help find a solution. Instead they trot out the "my science" etc. and just refuse to acknowledge this basic fact about life. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maninthebox Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 12 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said: How about how nature doesn't strictly define things in binary ways, as indicated in the original article in the first post of this thread? That's above my paygrade, but I'll bite. Do animals have gender..? Nature doesn't define anything, that's a human habit. That article (haven't watched the documentary) has a lot of interesting things to say. Certain frogs and fish can change their sex at need to ensure propagation. Humans can't do that. Other species can express opposite sex traits. Humans can definitely do that. We all begin as female until the Y is added to the mix, right? That has always been enough 'science' for me to understand that some humans have the potential to be trans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 17 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: Hey Blair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 14 minutes ago, Maninthebox said: Nature doesn't define anything, that's a human habit. Nature defines everything we experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: Hey Blair You’d think Jo was ‘them/they’. I put money on Blair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Just now, Sharpshooter said: You’d think Jo was ‘them/they’. I put money on Blair. Wasn't that tootie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 3 minutes ago, Maninthebox said: That's above my paygrade, but I'll bite. Do animals have gender..? Nature doesn't define anything, that's a human habit. That article (haven't watched the documentary) has a lot of interesting things to say. Certain frogs and fish can change their sex at need to ensure propagation. Humans can't do that. Other species can express opposite sex traits. Humans can definitely do that. We all begin as female until the Y is added to the mix, right? That has always been enough 'science' for me to understand that some humans have the potential to be trans. It's a start. As I mentioned in the original post of this thread, I knew that people would be more passionate about discussing the human version of this issue, but really I was more fascinated by the content of the article and how things aren't "black/white" in nature. You're right, nature doesn't define anything and that we're the ones that do - you got me there. Even I slip into a Homo sapiens-centric view sometimes. To move on from the human side of things, this will be my last comment on humans and gender in this post (but not this thread), and that is that the likelihood of a hermaphrodite human (meaning, a human possessing reproductive organs that are normally identified to be female as well as those normally identified as male) existing is not zero, but the real question is - would they be identifiable by a medical professional at birth, and if so, would all the people in that newborn's life (including the medical professional and the kid's parents) be of good conscience not to turn it into some sort of three ring shitshow circus act, and then would the kid themself be able to understand that this is normal and yet somehow different than what the majority of people out there identify as "normal" (with "normal" being a relative term, hence the quotation marks)? I knew that flowers had male/female traits, but didn't know that they could change mid-stream. Likewise with animals, and as you suggested, it's primarily due to the need to propagate. However, even sexual activity that would be seen by some humans as "deviant" behaviour (such as bisexual mammals or even strictly homosexual animals) appears to be more normalized than those humans would care to accept. And yet, it's in full display in nature. And other members of their species don't really give a fuck about how "deviant" this behaviour would appear to other species. People could brush that off as "animalistic behaviour", but I think in reality, it's not really that big a deal - certainly not to other members of their own species. It's not like a gay dog is trying to procreate with someone's leg... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maninthebox Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 3 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Nature defines everything we experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: Wasn't that tootie? Naw, Tootie was definitely She/Her. Never trusted Blair. ‘They/Them’ were fooling us all with ‘their’ hotness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 3 hours ago, Strawbone said: This discussion has actually remained surprisingly civil and levelheaded. Good job, everyone! I wasn't here to see it but since the banning of one certain individual the discourse has cleaned up a lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 8 minutes ago, DSVII said: I wasn't here to see it but since the banning of one certain individual the discourse has cleaned up a lot. I expect the discourse to stay that way. Opinions either way are ok, somewhat. However, the Moderating Team will give zero fucks banning Members if I, meaning We, see posts that are disparaging or insulting/offensive against people that are ‘diverse’, with regards to this topic. Just using your post as a means to send a broader message/reminder. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 23 hours ago, King Heffy said: Exactly. I don't care who's in what bathroom, just don't make eye contact with me and wash your hands please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sharpshooter Posted March 28 Popular Post Share Posted March 28 7 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post D.B Cooper Posted March 28 Popular Post Share Posted March 28 (edited) My best friend is a trans dude. Ive known him for 15 years, and I’ve only ever known him as a man. Raddest fucking guy ever. If anyone has anything stupid to say about trans folks, I’ve always been more than happy to slap them in the ear. Yes, if you look at TikTok or Libsoftiktok, you are going to think they are fucked, but they are showing you those people for their specific agenda. Trans folks tend to be the strongest and most thoughtful and interesting people. They have been through a mental mind fuck and probably a lot of unnecessary abuse. You gain a lot of personality when you grow up like that. Having said all that. First, Leaning kids in that direction, and giving medication before 16 years old is fucking insane and shouldn’t happen. Period. My kid is 7. She has had little boyfriends. She has told me her and her little friend Bella are ‘in lesbians together’. She wanted to be a pilot. And a teacher. And a fucking robot princess. No way in hell I’m giving her hormones because of what she feels she wants to be/do this week. Second, If you were born with a dick, you don’t play with women in sports. Straight up dangerous. Remember that trans woman who was in MMA and broke that woman’s orbital? She said she has never fought against power like that before. She never right away she was fucked and she got seriously injured. You can’t give them drugs before puberty as they aren’t mentally capable of making that huge of a decision. You can’t allow a trans man who went through male puberty to compete with women. Both those go together. I have zero hate in my heart and am 100% in support of people living how they want to live. (Once they are old enough to make their own decisions). Edited March 28 by D.B Cooper 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said: To move on from the human side of things, this will be my last comment on humans and gender in this post (but not this thread), and that is that the likelihood of a hermaphrodite human (meaning, a human possessing reproductive organs that are normally identified to be female as well as those normally identified as male) existing is not zero, but the real question is - would they be identifiable by a medical professional at birth, and if so, would all the people in that newborn's life (including the medical professional and the kid's parents) be of good conscience not to turn it into some sort of three ring shitshow circus act, and then would the kid themself be able to understand that this is normal and yet somehow different than what the majority of people out there identify as "normal" (with "normal" being a relative term, hence the quotation marks)? Most definitely not “not zero” and probably more common than you think, or at least more common than I thought. In the past the standard practice has been to look at the genitals and assign gender and surgery on the basis of “best guess.” This is changing now and surgeries are generally left until puberty barring parental interference. An estimated 1 in 2,000 children born each year are neither boy nor girl -- they are intersex, part of a group of about 60 conditions that fall under the diagnosis of disorders of sexual development (DSD). https://abcnews.go.com/Health/intersex-children-pose-ethical-dilemma-doctors-parents-genital/story?id=13153068 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, D.B Cooper said: You can’t give them drugs before puberty as they aren’t mentally capable of making that huge of a decision. That decision should be made by medical professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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