Coconuts Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 It won't matter in regards to the Norris, but it's interesting to see how the players themselves largely view Hughes and Makar https://www.nhlpa.com/player-poll/2023-24 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 8 hours ago, Miss Korea said: I watched a bit of that- there was also a hit, where the Ranger guy skated into an islander's shoulder, and got upset that it wasn't called a 'hit to the head'. kind a funny listening to the Ranger broadcast going a little nuts about it. But the hit, shown above should have been penalized, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 17 minutes ago, Coconuts said: It won't matter in regards to the Norris, but it's interesting to see how the players themselves largely view Hughes and Makar https://www.nhlpa.com/player-poll/2023-24 These are often reputation based, so it takes awhile for newcomers to make their mark. Hughes hasn't shown what he can do in the playoffs yet, so he'd need a solid run to get closer to Makar (who had an amazing playoffs when the Avs won the Cup). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 (edited) 6 minutes ago, c00kies said: These are often reputation based, so it takes awhile for newcomers to make their mark. Hughes hasn't shown what he can do in the playoffs yet, so he'd need a solid run to get closer to Makar (who had an amazing playoffs when the Avs won the Cup). Hughes isn't a newcomer, and the players are the ones who play each of these guys so I wouldn't dismiss it. The latter bit, sure. If he was the engine behind a cup win that might change some minds, tall task though. Edited April 10 by Coconuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 36 minutes ago, Coconuts said: It won't matter in regards to the Norris, but it's interesting to see how the players themselves largely view Hughes and Makar https://www.nhlpa.com/player-poll/2023-24 its a bit of a loaded question "if you need to win one game" - so are they weighting offence higher? or? Makar also has the cup pedigree so how much is history vs who's better this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 3 minutes ago, Bob Long said: its a bit of a loaded question "if you need to win one game" - so are they weighting offence higher? or? Makar also has the cup pedigree so how much is history vs who's better this year. Wasn't just that, the breakout pass bit was interesting too Hard to say whether it weighs offense higher, Makar has a history of strong defensive play despite his numbers not being as strong this season Reputation plays a role, but as I said earlier, anyone voting has also played against each of Hughes and Makar personally so I wouldn't rush to discount it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 19 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Wasn't just that, the breakout pass bit was interesting too Hard to say whether it weighs offense higher, Makar has a history of strong defensive play despite his numbers not being as strong this season Reputation plays a role, but as I said earlier, anyone voting has also played against each of Hughes and Makar personally so I wouldn't rush to discount it all true, nice problem for us to have regardless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 7 minutes ago, Bob Long said: all true, nice problem for us to have regardless. Definitely CFF is Hughes land and I get that, but the comparison is inevitable and will likely never cease It makes for interesting conversation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: I never said Edmonton should "healthy" scratch McDavid. But just to be clear what I meant to say was they should have decreased his ice time over the last 2 weeks or so. They knew they were behind in games played which is why they had an advantage over other teams. However, eventually they needed to "catch" up on those games, which is happening right now. MacKinnon played 19 minutes last game. He didn't need to play 25 minutes. He's actually played less than 21 minutes several times in the last few weeks. Same with Kucherov. There are games over the last few weeks where Kucherov has played less than 17 minutes. As a matter of fact, over the last 14 games, Kucherov has played less than 20 minutes in 8 of them. Now look at McDavid. He's been playing hard minutes throughout these last few weeks. Even up to 24 minutes on some nights. Compare to JT Miller who has only played 24 minutes in one game all season, way back in October. Miller has been under 20 minutes pretty much every night for the last month. Edmonton plays McDavid more than the others because they have to. And he wants to because part of his motivation is individual trophies. If Edmonton was smart they would allow McDavid to rest and heal and be 100% ready for the playoffs. But they probably won't do that. And McDavid won't want to do that. But if they do it then they can prove me wrong. Also, those WAR charts don't really say much for individual defensive prowess. I was referring to evolving hockey numbers which maybe you don't have access to. I mean even Kuzmenko's WAR chart looked decent for his defensive numbers. Wasn't he close to 60% this year? You keep saying this like you know better but it's complete nonsense and you have no proof. You're just saying it because you want to shit on McDavid and the Oilers. Here are some hard stats that make your whole minutes argument look completely silly. Who leads the forwards in ice time? Rantanen, MacKinnon, and Kucherov. MacKinnon averages 22:56/G while McDavid averages 21:29/G. And the last 10 games? MacKinnon is playing more - 23:21/G, while McDavid is playing less - 20:40/G. #97 has played over 24 minutes.... zero times in the past 10 games. MacKinnon has played over 24 minutes... five times in that same span. Here's what's annoying me about you lately - you're just making shit up. The stats are literally right there on NHL.com. Edmonton is playing McDavid well below his season average while Colorado is boosting Mack's minutes, and here you are trying to say the exact opposite. Stop trying to come up with reasons for every little bad thing that happens to players/teams you don't like. It's lazy, and it's also just factually wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 Slaf got a hatty on no sleep, up to 48 points in 78 games Those bust comments that used to surround him sure have dissipated, sometimes young players simply need time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Didn't realize referees had so much fun! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 8 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Slaf got a hatty on no sleep, up to 48 points in 78 games Those bust comments that used to surround him sure have dissipated, sometimes young players simply need time Are people actually calling him a bust? At 20 years old? lol. I think Slaf is probably gonna be a Pastrnak type player in his prime. 2nd season in the NHL for Slaf: 19 goals 29 assists for 48 points in 78 games. Probably 20 goals and 30 assists for 50 points by season's end. 2nd season in the NHL for Pasta: 15 goals 11 assists for 26 points in 51 games. Pace for 24 goals 18 assists for 42 points in 82 games. We tend to think Pasta is big and strong ... but he's 6'0" 196lbs. Slafkovsky is 6'3" 230lbs. He's gonna be a force to be reckoned with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 2 hours ago, Coconuts said: It won't matter in regards to the Norris, but it's interesting to see how the players themselves largely view Hughes and Makar https://www.nhlpa.com/player-poll/2023-24 I'm not surprised by the defense results, Makar and Hedman are the most proven come playoffs. I am more surprised by how many picked McDavid as the forward in a must win game. I'd have thought the more proven winners in MacKinnon, Kucherov, and Crosby would have been ahead. Similarly Panarin being #5 was odd, no way I'd take him over someone like Point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 8 minutes ago, HKSR said: Are people actually calling him a bust? At 20 years old? lol. I think Slaf is probably gonna be a Pastrnak type player in his prime. 2nd season in the NHL for Slaf: 19 goals 29 assists for 48 points in 78 games. Probably 20 goals and 30 assists for 50 points by season's end. 2nd season in the NHL for Pasta: 15 goals 11 assists for 26 points in 51 games. Pace for 24 goals 18 assists for 42 points in 82 games. We tend to think Pasta is big and strong ... but he's 6'0" 196lbs. Slafkovsky is 6'3" 230lbs. He's gonna be a force to be reckoned with. Yeah, it's a common thing for high picks who don't immediately step in as stars to be dunked on and it's as ridiculous as it sounds Byfield and Lafreniere are two other examples of top picks sometimes needing time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 15 minutes ago, Master Mind said: I'm not surprised by the defense results, Makar and Hedman are the most proven come playoffs. I am more surprised by how many picked McDavid as the forward in a must win game. I'd have thought the more proven winners in MacKinnon, Kucherov, and Crosby would have been ahead. Similarly Panarin being #5 was odd, no way I'd take him over someone like Point. I suppose it depends on when the interview was done, McDavid's game has been much more complete this season and his offensive game is as dynamic as ever Mac would have probably been my choice, maybe Crosby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, Miss Korea said: You keep saying this like you know better but it's complete nonsense and you have no proof. You're just saying it because you want to shit on McDavid and the Oilers. Here are some hard stats that make your whole minutes argument look completely silly. Who leads the forwards in ice time? Rantanen, MacKinnon, and Kucherov. MacKinnon averages 22:56/G while McDavid averages 21:29/G. And the last 10 games? MacKinnon is playing more - 23:21/G, while McDavid is playing less - 20:40/G. #97 has played over 24 minutes.... zero times in the past 10 games. MacKinnon has played over 24 minutes... five times in that same span. Here's what's annoying me about you lately - you're just making shit up. The stats are literally right there on NHL.com. Edmonton is playing McDavid well below his season average while Colorado is boosting Mack's minutes, and here you are trying to say the exact opposite. Stop trying to come up with reasons for every little bad thing that happens to players/teams you don't like. It's lazy, and it's also just factually wrong. Kucherov has played 20 minutes or less in 9 of the last 14 games. McDavid has played 20 minutes or less 4 times in the last 14 games. I was wrong on the MacKinnon numbers so I will concede that. Also nice cherry picking on the last 10 games for McDavid. He literally played over 24 minutes 11 and 12 games ago which is why you stopped at 10 games. You claim there is no evidence that McDavid plays for trophies. You’d have to be the most naive person on earth to think this is not true. McDavid and Draisaitl are two of the most arrogant players in the NHL. They cry every time things don’t go their way. They are two of the worst interviews in all of hockey. Two complete pricks if you want my honest opinion. Compare a McDavid or Draisaitl interview with one from MacKinnon or Hughes or Crosby or Stamkos. Or Jonathan Toews. Or Steve Yzerman. Or Joe Sakic. Or Wayne Gretzky. Or Mario Lemieux. It’s real easy not to cheer for the Oilers when they have two of the most arrogant players in the league on their team who cry about everything. Connor McDavid is a fabulous player. He will be a top 10 player in NHL history or maybe even top 5 if he can win a cup or two. Edmonton was actually my second favourite team back in the day. Wayne Gretzky is my favourite player of all time. But I could never cheer for an Oilers team again as long as McDavid and Draisaitl are on the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Kucherov has played 20 minutes or less in 9 of the last 14 games. McDavid has played 20 minutes or less 4 times in the last 14 games. I was wrong on the MacKinnon numbers so I will concede that. Also nice cherry picking on the last 10 games for McDavid. He literally played over 24 minutes 11 and 12 games ago which is why you stopped at 10 games. You claim there is no evidence that McDavid plays for trophies. You’d have to be the most naive person on earth to think this is not true. McDavid and Draisaitl are two of the most arrogant players in the NHL. They cry every time things don’t go their way. They are two of the worst interviews in all of hockey. Two complete pricks if you want my honest opinion. Compare a McDavid or Draisaitl interview with one from MacKinnon or Hughes or Crosby or Stamkos. Or Jonathan Toews. Or Steve Yzerman. Or Joe Sakic. Or Wayne Gretzky. Or Mario Lemieux. It’s real easy not to cheer for the Oilers when they have two of the most arrogant players in the league on their team who cry about everything. Connor McDavid is a fabulous player. He will be a top 10 player in NHL history or maybe even top 5 if he can win a cup or two. Edmonton was actually my second favourite team back in the day. Wayne Gretzky is my favourite player of all time. But I could never cheer for an Oilers team again as long as McDavid and Draisaitl are on the team. So very bang on, I can't even add to this. It's such a great observation. Nice to read something written by someone not waiving the Rogers Poster Boy pom poms. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 2 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said: Hoping the players can declare themselves as free agents, and hit the open market. Seems only fair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 18 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said: Salt Lake City? Hmmm, they can have multiple wives now. Lol. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Kucherov has played 20 minutes or less in 9 of the last 14 games. McDavid has played 20 minutes or less 4 times in the last 14 games. I was wrong on the MacKinnon numbers so I will concede that. Also nice cherry picking on the last 10 games for McDavid. He literally played over 24 minutes 11 and 12 games ago which is why you stopped at 10 games. You claim there is no evidence that McDavid plays for trophies. You’d have to be the most naive person on earth to think this is not true. McDavid and Draisaitl are two of the most arrogant players in the NHL. They cry every time things don’t go their way. They are two of the worst interviews in all of hockey. Two complete pricks if you want my honest opinion. Compare a McDavid or Draisaitl interview with one from MacKinnon or Hughes or Crosby or Stamkos. Or Jonathan Toews. Or Steve Yzerman. Or Joe Sakic. Or Wayne Gretzky. Or Mario Lemieux. It’s real easy not to cheer for the Oilers when they have two of the most arrogant players in the league on their team who cry about everything. Connor McDavid is a fabulous player. He will be a top 10 player in NHL history or maybe even top 5 if he can win a cup or two. Edmonton was actually my second favourite team back in the day. Wayne Gretzky is my favourite player of all time. But I could never cheer for an Oilers team again as long as McDavid and Draisaitl are on the team. A player's interview demeanour or overall personal character has very little bearing on a player's ability to score on the ice. Carter Hart is a piece of shit. Nobody is doubting his hockey ability or his teamwork. Patrick Kane? Big time frat boy. Ovechkin? Arrogant as fuck. Do you doubt their ability to play as a team? A player's personality might dictate their playstyle but it has nothing to do with their overall ability. Nikita Kucherov and Nathan MacKinnon are polar opposites - one is laid-back and patient, while the other is a raging bull who floors it every chance he can get. Is one personality better than the other? No. The further back we go in time the more your argument falls apart. Edmonton was still climbing their way up the standings, trying to establish a better playoff position. No shit McDavid was playing his socks off. Did you forget what type of situation they were in to start the year? Now that they're firmly in control of their own destiny, they're letting their foot off the gas. Like, your argument is complete nonsense - McDavid has literally been played less than his season average this past month, and MacKinnon is being played more. So when you try to spin it like McDavid is selfish or got overworked to the point of injury, WTF? McDavid plays more while MacKinnon plays less. That should be evidence enough that one team wants their guy to win the Hart (since he's never won one), while the other doesn't care. Here's the thing that annoys me the most - I can't even about how amazing MacKinnon and Kucherov have been this year... because you're sputtering off complete nonsense about McDavid. Just watch the goddamn game and stop hating on every little thing players do. Everyone in the hockey community is debating over who's had a better year between the 3 top guys, and you're sucking all the fun out of it by trying to attack their integrity. 21 minutes ago, Rekker said: So very bang on, I can't even add to this. It's such a great observation. Nice to read something written by someone not waiving the Rogers Poster Boy pom poms. Narratives narratives narratives. That's what people resort to when they can't break down actual hockey plays and systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Fuck it I'm checking out. If you guys want to circlejerk and hate on players for no other reason than their on a team you don't like, go for it. Spin whatever garbage narrative you want. My arguments: "McDavid has improved his defensive positioning as the +1 under Knoblauch and has developed his off-puck toolset to pull more defenders toward him" "MacKinnon uses crossovers to accelerate with pace and momentum, and is the most intimidating player in the league" "Kucherov uses composure, patience, and Sedin-level puck control along the boards to exploit defenders." Your guys' arguments: "McDavid is selfish, arrogant, and chasing trophies. He got hurt because he's getting overworked. What a prick." Absolute garbage. You guys aren't even hockey fans at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 2 hours ago, HKSR said: Are people actually calling him a bust? At 20 years old? lol. I think Slaf is probably gonna be a Pastrnak type player in his prime. 2nd season in the NHL for Slaf: 19 goals 29 assists for 48 points in 78 games. Probably 20 goals and 30 assists for 50 points by season's end. 2nd season in the NHL for Pasta: 15 goals 11 assists for 26 points in 51 games. Pace for 24 goals 18 assists for 42 points in 82 games. We tend to think Pasta is big and strong ... but he's 6'0" 196lbs. Slafkovsky is 6'3" 230lbs. He's gonna be a force to be reckoned with. actually people have been making fun of Qwibby and his Habs love. "Slafbustsky" was funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 minute ago, Miss Korea said: Fuck it I'm checking out. If you guys want to circlejerk and hate on players for no other reason than their on a team you don't like, go for it. Spin whatever garbage narrative you want. My arguments: "McDavid has improved his defensive positioning as the +1 under Knoblauch and has developed his off-puck toolset to pull more defenders toward him" "MacKinnon uses crossovers to accelerate with pace and momentum, and is the most intimidating player in the league" "Kucherov uses composure, patience, and Sedin-level puck control along the boards to exploit defenders." Your guys' arguments: "McDavid is selfish, arrogant, and chasing trophies. He got hurt because he's getting overworked. What a prick." Absolute garbage. You guys aren't even hockey fans at that point. checks url... yep "canucksfanforum". If you expect people to fawn over McDicky, I'd suggest going to HFBoards/Edmonton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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