AnotherCanucksFan Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 30 minutes ago, Conscience said: Toc was the issue. You use the players you have and try to get the most out them. Trying to turn him into a grinder was ridiculous. What are we 27th in goals for since the all star break? Not exactly overflowing with scoring talent. I agree. Tocchet let his ego get in the way instead of learning how to make the most of Kuzzy. Kuzzy 19 pts in 25 games with Calgary vs Lindholm 9 pts in 23 games for the Canucks. 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscience Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Just now, Ghostsof1915 said: So if he stayed. And still didn't score how was his value going to go up here? Stawns already said it, toc and kuz had a free trial at the end of last season, offseason would have been the time to trade him if they didn't like kuz habits. Or you deploy him in a position to succeed instead of scratching and demoting him, leaving him off the pp and destroying his value to a cap dump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Tocchet Jack Adams 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DeNiro Posted April 13 Popular Post Share Posted April 13 2 minutes ago, AnotherCanucksFan said: 21 pts in 43 games with the Canucks, and 19 pts in 25 games with Calgary and 8 pts in the last 8 games. Lindholm had 32 pts in 49 games and 9 pts in 23 games. It's definitely looking like Tocchet gave up on Kuzzy too soon. Do you wanna go back to being a run and gun team that loses 6-5? Cause I don’t. One player isn’t above the team. Tocchet made his expectations very clear and Kuzmenko was the only one that couldn’t match them. Fans in this market seem to obsess over one dimensional players so hard. 1 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherCanucksFan Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 29 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Every team that goes far in the playoffs have star players that buy into a system. All Kuzmenko has shown is that he can score when the pressures off and expectations are low. Sounds like a lot of the Canuck's team since the All Star break. I think he just was appreciated more in Calgary. Why did / has Ilya Mikheyev get a pass and rarely is criticized while Kuzmenko was regular criticized or benched. Benching Kuzzy wasn't the way to go with a player like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 3 minutes ago, AnotherCanucksFan said: I agree. Tocchet let his ego get in the way instead of learning how to make the most of Kuzzy. Kuzzy 19 pts in 25 games with Calgary vs Lindholm 9 pts in 23 games for the Canucks. And if he continued to not score here and we were stuck with his 5.5 mil cap hit next season I wonder what you’d be saying… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: Do you wanna go back to being a run and gun team that loses 6-5? Cause I don’t. One player isn’t above the team. Tocchet made his expectations very clear and Kuzmenko was the only one that couldn’t match them. Fans in this market seem to obsess over one dimensional players so hard. I don't disagree with that, but they should have dealt him early on before they cratered his value. He was a 39 goal scorer.......they should have gotten a good haul for him, instead they mismanaged the situation until he was nothing mird than a throw in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 1 minute ago, AnotherCanucksFan said: Sounds like a lot of the Canuck's team since the All Star break. I think he just was appreciated more in Calgary. Why did / has Ilya Mikheyev get a pass and rarely is criticized while Kuzmenko was regular criticized or benched. Benching Kuzzy wasn't the way to go with a player like him. If you can’t figure it out I’m not gonna help you. It was very clear what he needed to do and he either refused or wasn’t able to. Can’t have a special set of standards for one player and not others. That’s not how you build a winning culture. Something Tocchet knows a thing or two about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherCanucksFan Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: Do you wanna go back to being a run and gun team that loses 6-5? Cause I don’t. One player isn’t above the team. Tocchet made his expectations very clear and Kuzmenko was the only one that couldn’t match them. Fans in this market seem to obsess over one dimensional players so hard. We weren't just a run and gun team. We had the top scoring team, but we also had a top 5 GA team pre All Star break. Canucks aren't built to be a Carolina or Winnipeg style of team. We're best in the offensive zone pressing other teams and keeping the puck out of our Dzone. People suggesting Tocchet took the wrong approach doesn't mean anyone is obsessing. The team lost Kuzmenko for Lindholm. At the moment that doesn't look like it's in our favour. We didn't have another player to replace Kuzmenko, so now we wait and see if Lindholm brings any value in the playoffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Fans in this market seem to obsess over one dimensional players so hard. Bingo! Feelings over what's needed. The lesson learned ... Bruce would still be here. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscience Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Almost every player on the team is having a career year. Yea Toc is the problem. You can face palm all you want, but in kuz individual case, tocs ego was the problem. He refused to adapt. teams carry purely offensive players, and good coaches know how to get the most out of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 1 hour ago, Pianoman said: Am I dumb or is Bachelor dumb? The oilers DO control their own destiny. If they win the rest of their games they win the pacific…… if they beat us that’s one point back with a game in hand, and if they win that game in hand they are one point ahead of us. Do people not know what control their own destiny means? They formerly could have hunted us down even if the Nux run the table, now they rely on us losing to pass us. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 1 minute ago, stawns said: I don't disagree with that, but they should have dealt him early on before they cratered his value. He was a 39 goal scorer.......they should have gotten a good haul for him, instead they mismanaged the situation until he was nothing mird than a throw in Who would have wanted him? And what haul would they really give up? From what I remember it was very hard to move cap space especially on players with term. Teams also didn’t value him as a 39 goal scorer. His shooting percentage was way too high. Now he’s falling back down to what he actually is which’s is around a 25 goal scorer. Still good but not someone teams would have been clamouring for at 5.5 mil. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscience Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 If we beat the oilers and one of Calgary/Jets we clinch the division title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 3 minutes ago, AnotherCanucksFan said: We weren't just a run and gun team. We had the top scoring team, but we also had a top 5 GA team pre All Star break. Canucks aren't built to be a Carolina or Winnipeg style of team. We're best in the offensive zone pressing other teams and keeping the puck out of our Dzone. People suggesting Tocchet took the wrong approach doesn't mean anyone is obsessing. The team lost Kuzmenko for Lindholm. At the moment that doesn't look like it's in our favour. We didn't have another player to replace Kuzmenko, so now we wait and see if Lindholm brings any value in the playoffs. And we were those things without Kuzmenko contributing so what point are you making exactly? Pettersson going into a funk has more to do with our scoring going down than losing Kuzmenko. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherCanucksFan Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Just now, DeNiro said: If you can’t figure it out I’m not gonna help you. It was very clear what he needed to do and he either refused or wasn’t able to. Can’t have a special set of standards for one player and not others. That’s not how you build a winning culture. Something Tocchet knows a thing or two about. Utilizing a player's skillset doesn't equal a 'special set of standards". We've been a '500 hockey team for 23 games and not scoring goals, so its debatable if Tocchet's system is going to work or not. Boudreau had temporary success after taking over as well. Tocchet had a great Pre All Star game and would have been a Coach of the year candidate. The question is the system going to win them in the playoffs or did they just reach their peak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 5 minutes ago, Conscience said: You can face palm all you want, but in kuz individual case, tocs ego was the problem. He refused to adapt. teams carry purely offensive players, and good coaches know how to get the most out of them. Not winning teams. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DeNiro Posted April 13 Popular Post Share Posted April 13 1 minute ago, AnotherCanucksFan said: Utilizing a player's skillset doesn't equal a 'special set of standards". We've been a '500 hockey team for 23 games and not scoring goals, so it’s debatable if Tocchet's system is going to work or not. Boudreau had temporary success after taking over as well. Tocchet had a great Pre All Star game and would have been a Coach of the year candidate. The question is the system going to win them in the playoffs or did they just reach their peak. Did you happen to forgot our star goalie went down? The legend of Kuzmenko’s impact continues to grow… 1 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Who would have wanted him? And what haul would they really give up? From what I remember it was very hard to move cap space especially on players with term. Teams also didn’t value him as a 39 goal scorer. His shooting percentage was way too high. Now he’s falling back down to what he actually is which’s is around a 25 goal scorer. Still good but not someone teams would have been clamouring for at 5.5 mil. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have had to work very hard to find a deal for a guy coming off a 39 goal season. You can neg him as much as you want, but he would have had plenty of interest 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherCanucksFan Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 I'm heading off. The Kuzmenko vs Lindholm debate really is just conjecture anyway, because for regular season Lindholm has contributed very little. If he contributes in the playoffs then the argument won't really matter, and if he doesn't (even though he may embrace the system more than Kuzmenko ) then was it better to trade for him. Only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscience Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 7 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Not winning teams. Sure man. kuch, kane and kessel are selke candidates right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 5 minutes ago, stawns said: Yeah, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have had to work very hard to find a deal for a guy coming off a 39 goal season. You can neg him as much as you want, but he would have had plenty of interest Pure speculation. If contracts were so easy to move why weren’t there many trades? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Conscience said: Sure man. kuch, kane and kessel are selke candidates right Kessel is the only player there you could argue is one dimensional and Tocchet was the one that got the most out of him. Stop making excuses for him. He didn’t take his offseason training seriously, was given every opportunity to succeed and didn’t. Tocchett’s not out there missing tap ins for him or constantly being out of position. Edited April 13 by DeNiro 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 7 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Did you happen to forgot our star goalie went down? The legend of Kuzmenko’s impact continues to grow… Exactly It's just another version of we need a young RHD ... wait, get rid of him. Kuz wasn't fitting ... wait, we should have kept him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscience Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Just now, DeNiro said: Kessel is the only player there you could argue is one dimensional and Tocchet was the one that got the most out of him. Stop making excuses for him. He didn’t take his offseason trading seriously, was given every opportunity to succeed and didn’t. Tocchett’s not out there missing tap ins for him or constantly being out of position. Curios what other dimensions u think kane and kuch have besides offense because apparently winning teams dont have any purely offensive players. Hes succeeding now isnt he, when he actually is given the opportunities to succeed, which he wasn't here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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