Re Tool vs Re Build [proposal] CBJ VAN

[Hammertime]

To CBJ Kuzzi 5.5M + Myers 6M only 1M real money+ Beauvelleir 4.15

To Van Peeke 2.75M + Laine 8.7M + Cole Sillinger ELC + Stanislav Svozil ELC

 

I think this works. In terms of real money Myers is only 1m Laine has 3 years after this at 9.1M. In terms of real money CBJ saves a bunch of cash in terms of cap it's 15.65m out 11.45M in we save 4.2M and get the cap flexability MGMT desires. Yes it cost us Kuzz but he was a free asset and honestly I don't think Tocc cares much for him I doubt he repeats last years performance under Tocc who was benching him towards the end of last season. Love Kuzz but we have a problem on the wing and he's the only one who can bring a gainful return at this time. I think we sell high honestly our team is too soft and Uzi is Cha Cha Cha Charmin. 

 

For CBJ they more than compensate for the loss of Laine's production with Kuzz and Beau. And with Myers and Beau expiring they are set to make some big moves next year. 

 

I think Laine would absolutely flourish and finally reach his potential with Pete. Petey has been able to make studs of defensively defficient wingers with offensive skill in fact he seems to care far more about having a offensive weapon on his wing than a defensive one. Sillinger is a great project who is now waiver eligible. I think Foudy has earned his spot though if they like Sillinger more I would also be open to Foudy. Peeke is a stud despite his J Fresh card he's a league leader in all of the areas we are deficient. They would have the cap space to acquire a hell of a rental, and when the time comes still be able to re up Pete and Hronek. Gaining Svozil and Sillinger is more in line with a re tool and Laine, Peeke are just entering their prime. We become a compete now team.

 

Mik Petey Laine Pete gets 2 huge wingers one whos shot teams will have to respect which will give Pete more time and space and the other to cover their butts when they play aggressive offensively. 

Garland Myers Brock this is a top 6 that can actually dominate. 

Beluger Suter Podz Proper checking line

Hog Sillinger Dakota I think this is probably the best way to develop Hog Sillinger they can be sheltered and supported  

 

We have solid depth with DiG, Bains, Aman, Dries, Stud

 

Hughes Peeke

Soucy Hronek

Hirose Cole 

Breezer McWard

This is a proper top 8. there's even room for Rathbone to get a cup a joe. 

 

Flame away but I think especially if Brock regains form the honey moon with Kuzz will end and he will be exposed. Laine IMO is the ideal linemate for Pete who would be in a buy low situation. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Master Mind]

Might as well take Jiricek and Fantilli too while we're robbing them.

[Hammertime]

1 minute ago, Master Mind said:

Might as well take Jiricek and Fantilli too while we're robbing them.

They burned through Sillinger's waiver eligibility and he didn't have a great year last year I think he is questionable to make the team. Laine has struggled to stay healthy and has yet to live up to his contract he potted 20g last year and costs 9.1m for the next 3 years. I don't think were robbing them. they gain 10m capspace next year and dump Laine. 

[Phil_314]

Not sure what this trade does for Columbus.  Skill-wise Kuzmenko may be comparable to Laine but it should really just be viewed as a lateral move, while with Fantilli and Gaudreau Laine could really take off (EDIT: OP you say Laine was a dump, but give him credit, he was still a point/ game guy).  Beauvillier doesn't add much to them when they already have the likes of Johnson, Texier and Marchenko who are also skilled offensive wingers.  Their defense has already been revamped and the top-4 likely has Severson and Jiricek on the top-4 so Myers would be stuck where he is in Vancouver in the lineup also (likely 3rd pair guy).  Then they add in Sillinger, Peeke and Svozil??  I ask what for.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Phil_314

[Miss Korea]

There are two ways to approach this.

 

First, is your cap movement.  You can't imagine Columbus is openly willing to take on $4.2M in cap space without getting a massive haul in return.  That is going to put the Jackets right up against the ceiling.  You also can't imagine Columbus will willingly take on two cap dumps (Myers/Beauvillier) and give away their best RW in return. 

 

Secondly, the trade makes little sense for either side CBJ really doesn't need any more wingers right now.  Kirill Marchenko is literally a carbon copy of Kuzmenko - a very efficient, pure finisher who will be expected to play alongside Fantilli.

 

As for Vancouver's return?  You sure picked an odd group of players here.  What is the point of this trade?  I know his finishing is unsustainable, but are you dissatisfied with what Kuzy has brought to the table?  You really think Peeke (the +/- loser of 22/23) is a good 1st pairing option here?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Miss Korea

[Alflives]

 

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Edited September 23, 2023 by Alflives

[Hammertime]

13 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

1 First, is your cap movement.  You can't imagine Columbus is openly willing to take on $4.2M in cap space without getting a massive haul in return.  That is going to put the Jackets right up against the ceiling.  You also can't imagine Columbus will willingly take on two cap dumps (Myers/Beauvillier) and give away their best RW in return. 

 

2 Secondly, the trade makes little sense for either side CBJ really doesn't need any more wingers right now.  Kirill Marchenko is literally a carbon copy of Kuzmenko - a very efficient, pure finisher who will be expected to play alongside Fantilli.

 

3 As for Vancouver's return?  You sure picked an odd group of players here.  What is the point of this trade?  I know his finishing is unsustainable, but are you dissatisfied with what Kuzy has brought to the table?  You really think Peeke (the +/- loser of 22/23) is a good 1st pairing option here?

 

 

 

 

 

1 We get 4.2 this year they get 10.15 next year and beyond. So who should have to pay who?

2 Laine as a BJ 156 gp 58g vs Kuz 39g half the gp and costs 3.2m less to play the same role. 

3 I do think Peeke is very good. He plays shut down on CBJ his +/- is inflated. He's tops in hits tops in drawing penalties, tops in shot blocks, tops in d zone deployment, 38th and 34th the last 2 years in total ice time last I checked there were 32 teams with 2 top pairing D would 38th not be considered top pairing minutes? As for Kuzy I think the books are cooked and his season was largely due to the incredible play of Pete we saw as soon as he was moved from Petes wing his offence dried up. I think we can sell high on him. opposed to our other wingers there isn't a market for unless we pay. 

[cripplereh]

You might be able to get Peeke and Sillinger if we added.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, cripplereh said:

You might be able to get Peeke and Sillinger if we added.

Just want Sillinger. No interest in the Green Jacket winner. 

[puckstopper]

Columbus is a prime position for a big fall if their off season

moves don't pan out! After that babs fiasco, that GM is on 

the hotseat for sure! Revisit this about 20 games into the 

Clown show of an opening act. Then they'll be even more

adept to make some questionable moves!

 

[cripplereh]

50 minutes ago, puckstopper said:

Columbus is a prime position for a big fall if their off season

moves don't pan out! After that babs fiasco, that GM is on 

the hotseat for sure! Revisit this about 20 games into the 

Clown show of an opening act. Then they'll be even more

adept to make some questionable moves!

 

Seems about right as Johnny signed there.

 

Ever since they've tried to make quick moves and signing that seem Benningish.

[Jeremy Hronek]

12 hours ago, Master Mind said:

Might as well take Jiricek and Fantilli too while we're robbing them.

 

Earlier this year in January, I absolutely would have done a Pettersson to Columbus type deal in which we would have gotten Jiricek, and Columbus' 1st.  I would have blown the whole thing up (Hughes, Kuzmenko, Demko for 2023 1st rounders at minimum, with Hughes and Demko landing elite prospects on top of those 1sts as well).  But such is life.

 

Prior to that at the start of the 2022/2023 season (before the train wreck of last season which should have prompted a complete tear down), I would have committed to Horvat and moved Pettersson for the simple fact that Horvat wanted to be here long term while Petey was noncommittal.  Trade Petey for a 'win now deal' that would have landed us a very good top four defenseman to play alongside Hughes, as well as a very good 3rd line center.   So, while rolling with Horvat, Miller and [good 3rd line C] wouldn't have been elite, it would still be pretty damn good.  But now, you'd have Hughes with an elite RD beside him which would be our version of Keith and Seabrook.   Canucks wouldn't have had the fire power up front with Petey gone, but they would have been far more well rounded with their new 3rd line C (that I would assume would be a strong PK'er), and an elite RD playing alongside Hughes.  

[Jeremy Hronek]

Theoretically, Vancouver and Columbus should be excellent trading partners.  

 

1) Columbus, with their current players, should be attempting to 'go for it' by bringing in more win now players.

 

2) The Canucks should be looking to bring in elite prospects that can be long term fixtures for the next core.  

 

With the Hronek and Beauvillier moves however, it's clear that the Canucks want to move forward with their current core.  

 

The pressure is on.   Will Petey want to stay?   Realisitcally, how much of a leap can the Canucks take over the next few years with the following potential obstacles?

 

1) Demko has 3 years left on his contract before he becomes a 30 year old UFA.  

2) Kuzmenko and Boeser have 2 years left on their contracts

3) Peak Miller likely has about 3 seasons left before he begins an age-related decline.  

 

So even if the Canucks can become an elite team in three years, there's a chance that all of the above players will be no more...........and then you'll have Hughes with one year left.   

 

So while I'm supportive of the Canucks, I'm just not sure if I understand what the plan is.   

 

-Pettersson (fingers crossed)

-Hronek (fingers crossed)

-Beauvillier

-Silovs (???)

-Hoglander

-Podkolzin

 

might be our long term core pieces if all goes well but my frustration with the Canucks is that they seem to want to be competitive now AND rebuild which is almost impossible.  You can cater to both sides, yes, but you need to lean heavy in one direction or the other.   Before the 2020 post-season bubble, I fully supported Benning because I thought he was learning towards wanting to "win now,"........and then he let Toffoli, Tanev, and Markstrom walk (Markstrom was understandable since Markstrom's body was showing signs of breaking down).  The 2020 post-season was the time where we needed to be more aggressive in using sweeteners to move bad contracts and then having a mini-run with that core.  

 

Anyways - that's my rant for the day.  

 

With Management's current plan, we pretty much need to do whatever we can to keep pending RFA's Pettersson, Hronek, and Beauviller happy.   We need to find a way to make more efficient use of Myers' 6 million dollar cap hit, and then take a significant leap this season.   Our current defense is not good enough and is only one injury away from being one of the worst in the league.  

[cripplereh]

4 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Theoretically, Vancouver and Columbus should be excellent trading partners.  

 

1) Columbus, with their current players, should be attempting to 'go for it' by bringing in more win now players.

 

2) The Canucks should be looking to bring in elite prospects that can be long term fixtures for the next core.  

 

With the Hronek and Beauvillier moves however, it's clear that the Canucks want to move forward with their current core.  

 

The pressure is on.   Will Petey want to stay?   Realisitcally, how much of a leap can the Canucks take over the next few years with the following potential obstacles?

 

1) Demko has 3 years left on his contract before he becomes a 30 year old UFA.  

2) Kuzmenko and Boeser have 2 years left on their contracts

3) Peak Miller likely has about 3 seasons left before he begins an age-related decline.  

 

So even if the Canucks can become an elite team in three years, there's a chance that all of the above players will be no more...........and then you'll have Hughes with one year left.   

 

So while I'm supportive of the Canucks, I'm just not sure if I understand what the plan is.   

 

-Pettersson (fingers crossed)

-Hronek (fingers crossed)

-Beauvillier

-Silovs (???)

-Hoglander

-Podkolzin

 

might be our long term core pieces if all goes well but my frustration with the Canucks is that they seem to want to be competitive now AND rebuild which is almost impossible.  You can cater to both sides, yes, but you need to lean heavy in one direction or the other.   Before the 2020 post-season bubble, I fully supported Benning because I thought he was learning towards wanting to "win now,"........and then he let Toffoli, Tanev, and Markstrom walk (Markstrom was understandable since Markstrom's body was showing signs of breaking down).  The 2020 post-season was the time where we needed to be more aggressive in using sweeteners to move bad contracts and then having a mini-run with that core.  

 

Anyways - that's my rant for the day.  

 

With Management's current plan, we pretty much need to do whatever we can to keep pending RFA's Pettersson, Hronek, and Beauviller happy.   We need to find a way to make more efficient use of Myers' 6 million dollar cap hit, and then take a significant leap this season.   Our current defense is not good enough and is only one injury away from being one of the worst in the league.  

I think you are looking at someone else's D group.

 

With the summer signings and McWard looking great, plus Woo , Johansson and Hirose all knocking at the door.Our D group looks amazing for the first time in ages.

 

Not to mention EP d and others.

 

Goaltending looks great.

 

Forwards needs one more big scorer and we are there.

 

[Jeremy Hronek]

5 minutes ago, cripplereh said:

I think you are looking at someone else's D group.

 

With the summer signings and McWard looking great, plus Woo , Johansson and Hirose all knocking at the door.Our D group looks amazing for the first time in ages.

 

Not to mention EP d and others.

 

Goaltending looks great.

 

Forwards needs one more big scorer and we are there.

 

 

Good points.   

 

While guys like McWard, EP, Woo, Johansson, and Hirose all look very promising, time will tell if they are able to make the leap to being Top 4 defensemen.....or guys that wouldn't look out of place playing on a top pairing.  A few years back, guys like Rathbone and Juolevi also looked very promising. Cole Cassels was supposed to be the McDavid kryptonite.  Prospects all look good on paper but you can't 'pencil' anyone in.  Up front, even Podkolzin is a question mark right now.  

 

Goaltending looks great for now, but again, Demko will be 30 years old in three years and will be a UFA.  The guy has also battled injuries all throughout his career.  We saw how far guys like Corey Schneider and Jonathan Quick trailed off.  Could Demko follow a similar path?  Silovs looks quite promising, but again, we still don't know.  

 

To your last comment "Forward need one more big scorer and we are there," I guess it just depends on what you mean by "there."  Would we be a playoff team and possibly a 2nd round team if all of the above went to plan?  Yes, I'd say so.  Would we be up there with the Tampa Bay's, Colorado's, and Vegas's? In the immoral words of Al Borlin, "I don't think so Tim."

 

 

 

[cripplereh]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

Good points.   

 

While guys like McWard, EP, Woo, Johansson, and Hirose all look very promising, time will tell if they are able to make the leap to being Top 4 defensemen.....or guys that wouldn't look out of place playing on a top pairing.  A few years back, guys like Rathbone and Juolevi also looked very promising. Cole Cassels was supposed to be the McDavid kryptonite.  Prospects all look good on paper but you can't 'pencil' anyone in.  Up front, even Podkolzin is a question mark right now.  

 

Goaltending looks great for now, but again, Demko will be 30 years old in three years and will be a UFA.  The guy has also battled injuries all throughout his career.  We saw how far guys like Corey Schneider and Jonathan Quick trailed off.  Could Demko follow a similar path?  Silovs looks quite promising, but again, we still don't know.  

 

To your last comment "Forward need one more big scorer and we are there," I guess it just depends on what you mean by "there."  Would we be a playoff team and possibly a 2nd round team if all of the above went to plan?  Yes, I'd say so.  Would we be up there with the Tampa Bay's, Colorado's, and Vegas's? In the immoral words of Al Borlin, "I don't think so Tim."

 

 

 

Yes mean a constant playoff team.

 

You are right about the D but way I see it one makes top 4 and one bottom pairing that's still big.

 

With QH , Hronek and two more we are set for some time.

 

Not to mention Soucy.

 

Maybe in the future a ufa ?

[Snoop Hogg]

So, Myers is a forward now and he will play on a checking line for us even though we traded him?  
 

On a scale between Seth Rogen and Tommy Chong, how high are you?