[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks Vs. Calgary Flames, Scotia Saddledome, September 24, @ 5PM PST, Preseason Game #1

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Dumb Nuck said:

Depends on your perspective, if the goal was to keep them under a dozen then yes, we did win tonight.

We're already at moral victories? Man, this forum really does feel like home 

[Jaimito]

 

[RWJC]

19 minutes ago, Chon derry said:

Playing rookies with other rookies is easy to see who is going to flourish. One of tonites lousier players given a call up in reg season playing with real NHL quality players that same player could have a real impact. But the decision to  have played him with other players his own age and skill level may have jeorodized that future chance. Because the decision was already made.  So yes indeed when evaluating players this way. It’s entirely possible to screw up a players growth and learning curve. Especially if you’ve already made decisions on his future with lousy evaluations from a position coming from way higher. 

so to paraphrase your point - a player doesn’t need to prove that they can play above their peers in order to qualify with certainty for an NHL job. They just need to be able to hang on playing with players who may be years ahead of them in development and skill and that is sufficient criteria to base them on. 
 

maybe tonight’s game wasn’t literally against the Flames. Perhaps it was a continuation of a camp scrimmage but instead of it being against other bubble candidates, the best options were placed together against a much more competitive and skilled team to see how our players would react? That is a possibility, no? Do you think the A has so much parity that teams never get blown out in that league? 
 

These guys got a chance to prove something of themselves to the coaching staff. They didn’t have to score hat tricks or kick the shit out of someone, they just had to show they could retain what they learned in camp, action it in a competitive game where the result doesn’t matter, only the effort and the willingness to follow through on systems coaching, whether it be pre-ordained or on the fly. 
 

The score means shit.

The individual performance and evidence of reliability is what counts. 
 

it’s like some fans here think they’re owed a victory sooooo badly because they need it as much as the team does. Quit projecting. 
What this team needs is to suss out its best roster for its best chance of success. Performance analysis can be fluffed up when you’re playing with someone far better than you who can cover up your flaws. Is that what you want to see? I don’t.

 

I want capable players who can support their linemate and dont eventually prove to be a liability simply because they werent critiqued adequately enough in preseason. 
If you want to blame Tocchet for anything, this is what it would be if he shared your perspective…a failure to perform due diligence at an appropriate time and opportunity. 
 

I don’t mean to sound harsh and like I said I value counter opinion, but this isn’t madness. It’s truly due diligence. Again, just one way of looking at it though. Doesn’t make my opinion any more valid than yours.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by RWJC

[Locke Lamora]

I PVR’ed this game so that I could watch it at my leisure after the football was finished for the day. After a few moments of contemplation, I just deleted that sucker, lol. 

[Snoop Hogg]

I’ve seen teams that suck before, but those were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

[Canuckle]

Just now, Dumb Nuck said:

What happened tonight isn't good for anyones career.

 

You have it backwards.  It was great for the careers of the guys who stood out.  They're looking at NHL jobs and big pay raises if they can stick.

That's how it works.

 

Of course would have been nice if it wasn't a blowout but the score is completely inconsequential. They're looking at the details of individual players games. That was the whole purpose of icing an ahl squad against nhlers.

 

Either players can be demoralized and be giant babies about it, or they can take it as a lesson. This is what it takes. 

 

Meet pressure with pressure -- Rick Tocchet

[Conscience]

Podz not looking good, I forget which plugs in 2019 won us a few games down the stretch and dropped our draft position to 10th. Sad!

[The Arrogant Worms]

Never change Canuck fans.  

 

Ps....the sky isn't falling.

[Dumb Nuck]

1 minute ago, Canuckle said:

 

You have it backwards.  It was great for the careers of the guys who stood out.  They're looking at NHL jobs and big pay raises if they can stick.

That's how it works.

 

Of course would have been nice if it wasn't a blowout but the score is completely inconsequential. They're looking at the details of individual players games. That was the whole purpose of icing an ahl squad against nhlers.

 

Either players can be demoralized and be giant babies about it, or they can take it as a lesson. This is what it takes. 

 

Meet pressure with pressure -- Rick Tocchet

We'll see, what disturbed me most was how soft we played, a trait that has haunted us over a decade, in that sense we didn't meet pressure with pressure. I'm hoping for the best, we shall see.

[Elias Pettersson]

So the Calgary Flames beat the Abbotsford Canucks 10-0. I’m surprised it was that close. 
 

Not sure it was a good idea to do

this. Lots of players can lose confidence in a game like this. Especially the goalies. 

[Canuckle]

5 minutes ago, RWJC said:

they just had to show they could retain what they learned in camp, action it in a competitive game where the result doesn’t matter, only the effort and the willingness to follow through on systems coaching, whether it be pre-ordained or on the fly. 
 

The score means shit.

The individual performance and evidence of reliability is what counts. 

[JamesB]

My take:

 

1. It is not as bad as it looks.

 

2. First, the shots were equal 26 to 26. Of course, people will say that Calgary had better quality shots, which they did. But not that much better. Natural Stat Trick has the expected goals as 2.96 for Calgary vs. 2.21 for the Canucks, so roughly 3 to 2.

 

3. The Canuck goaltending was, obviously,  terrible. It is hard to give up 10 goals on 26 shots. That is a significantly higher scoring rate (10/26 = 38%) than you get with penalty shots or breakaways.  Some of it was bad luck but both goalies struggled badly as well.

 

4. Some of the Canucks were good. The underlying stats were consistent with my view of the eye test. McWard had excellent numbers. His Corsi was 13 shot attempts for and 5 shot attempts against. His expected goal differential is even better at 1.04 xGF and only 0.18 xGA.  I won't quote the numbers but Suter and Studnicka were both very good. Suter and Studnicka played a lot together so it might be hard to isolate individual contributions but all those guys looked good in my view.  And they did not have particularly easy minutes.

 

5. Somehow Hirose managed to get a 0 plus/minus although his expected plus minus (xGF - xGA) was not good.  [CORRECTION. That was apparently a scoring error. Hirose was actually -1.] Irwin had an ugly +/- of -4 but his expected plus/minus was a solid positive.

 

6. I have been pulling for both Woo and Juulsen, both both guys did not look even close to being NHL players tonight and the underlying stats bear that out. Juulsen looked slow in straight line  skating and slow in response time and also exhibited poor decision-making.

 

7. I think Aman, Joshua, and Dries will have a hard time making the team. Right now I would bet against all three of them.

 

8. I don't think Hogs hurt his chances tonight. He plays a hard, aggressive, high-energy game. 

 

9. Of the guys playing tonight, I still think Suter and Hogs are the only locks to make the team. I think Podz has a good shot (better than 50-50) and I think Studnicka keeps improving his chances. On D, both Irwin and McWard helped themselves tonight. Obviously the Canucks expect McWard to play in Abby, but I think he will get a fairly close look in preseason. And Irwin plays well (although he is slow) and standing up for Hogs helped him. The Canucks need someone who projects some toughness. Irwin helps on that and Joshua contributes less in that dimension that you would hope.

 

9. Anyway, we will see a few more regulars in the next game. 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by JamesB

[Thundernuts]

Doesn’t look good, but…

 

Preseason means nothing!

 

Of course we would have all loved to see Podkolzin and Hoglander score hat tricks and for Silovs to get the shut out.  However, that would have meant nothing too. 
 

I’ve watched too many preseasons to get too high or low over a game or a players performance. 

[RWJC]

6 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

You have it backwards.  It was great for the careers of the guys who stood out.  They're looking at NHL jobs and big pay raises if they can stick.

That's how it works.

 

Of course would have been nice if it wasn't a blowout but the score is completely inconsequential. They're looking at the details of individual players games. That was the whole purpose of icing an ahl squad against nhlers.

 

Either players can be demoralized and be giant babies about it, or they can take it as a lesson. This is what it takes. 

 

Meet pressure with pressure -- Rick Tocchet

100%.

 

Great use of the quote too. 

[Breadnbutta]

14 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

Let what happen.

 

For the AHL depth guys to understand what it takes to win in the NHL? They were testing who would sink or swim, who continued trying to play the right way, attention to detail and high compete level in a stressful, and in this case, embarrassing situation. The score doesn't matter. Coaches and management knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

 

Question is, did you?

 

As for the game, the question is who stood out. Who did the things they were looking for. Those are the players leading the pack to land NHL jobs.

 

Great lesson for the depth guys tonight.

This!

 

Pre season is not a game 

 

It's glorified practice.

 

For all we know they were told to play undisciplined cause they wanted to practice the pk lol

[Dizzle]

11 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

Let what happen.

 

For the AHL depth guys to understand what it takes to win in the NHL? They were testing who would sink or swim, who continued trying to play the right way, attention to detail and high compete level in a stressful, and in this case, embarrassing situation. The score doesn't matter. Coaches and management knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

 

Question is, did you?

 

As for the game, the question is who stood out. Who did the things they were looking for. Those are the players leading the pack to land NHL jobs.

 

Great lesson for the depth guys tonight.

Did you actually edit what I said… and then go on a tangent based on your edited version? 
 

Ew. 

[JeremyCuddles]

Nothing like brutalizing our goalies confidence. Lol. I get you want your regulars traveling as little as possible. But damn. Would it have hurt to have a few of the newer vets show up? Ngl, part of me thought maybe the kids at least keep it respectable to show what they got. Never expected a mollywhopping of epic proportions. The regulars better put on a show and look regular season ready. Otherwise we just tanked a bunch of player's confidence for nothing.

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

You have it backwards.  It was great for the careers of the guys who stood out.  They're looking at NHL jobs and big pay raises if they can stick.

That's how it works.

 

Of course would have been nice if it wasn't a blowout but the score is completely inconsequential. They're looking at the details of individual players games. That was the whole purpose of icing an ahl squad against nhlers.

 

Either players can be demoralized and be giant babies about it, or they can take it as a lesson. This is what it takes. 

 

Meet pressure with pressure -- Rick Tocchet

What’s the benefit of playing the Abbotsford Canucks against the Calgary Flames?  Guys like Podkolzin and Höglander should be playing with Petey and Miller to learn from them. This was an absolute waste of a preseason game. Nothing positive at all came from this game. 

[Snoop Hogg]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So the Calgary Flames beat the Abbotsford Canucks 10-0. I’m surprised it was that close. 
 

Not sure it was a good idea to do

this. Lots of players can lose confidence in a game like this. Especially the goalies. 

What’s concerning about this game is the absence of any kind of pushback. We knew what the result of the game would be. I was so disheartened to see no sense of pride or pushback. 

[Breadnbutta]

If i remember correctly in 2010/11 we only won one pre season game and then went on to win the pres trophy with a huge gap too. I think 2nd place was 12 points behind.

 

Pre season means nothing.. Allen Iverson Practice 

[Canuck You]

Pete checking the score...

 

[Dumb Nuck]

Just now, Snoop Hogg said:

What’s concerning about this game is the absence of any kind of pushback. We knew what the result of the game would be. I was so disheartened to see no sense of pride or pushback. 

Thats my issue with what happened too, I did not expect us to win but I also did not expect what happened to happen and for as to go quietly into the night. We are known as a soft team, Tocchet even said it, and that impression of us has not changed tonight.

[Snoop Hogg]

1 minute ago, Dumb Nuck said:

Thats my issue with what happened too, I did not expect us to win but I also did not expect what happened to happen and for as to go quietly into the night. We are known as a soft team, Tocchet even said it, and that impression of us has not changed tonight.

It makes me even more glad we have Miller. He wouldn’t have taken this beating lying down. 

[AngelicHearts]

[Elias Pettersson]

What’s up with Dakota Joshua?  First he tries to beat up our smallest player. Then he swings his stick at one of our elite core players. Then he sh*ts the bed tonight and is too scared to get into a real fight with the opposition. 
 

Dude is gonna end up on waivers real soon. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Elias Pettersson