AnotherCanucksFan Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 9 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: I've thought about this and I think I know what happened. The NHL broke Petey. Over the all star break, I'm sure a memo went out on Petey diving. If you watch the games after all start break, you'll notice a drastic difference where calls that used to be made that drew penalties were ignored. There's a lateral shift move that Petey does where he can usually get by a player but the player either has a choice to completely whiff or get a piece of Petey's legs. Petey goes down quite easy when he gets clipped on that play and he used to draw a lot of penalties. Those calls stopped happening after all start weekend. In fact, more heinous penalties are now getting ignored where he's grabbed and tackled or crosschecked. Case in point is that Nashville play where he got hit after their goal celebration. Case in point is the Nurse boarding / hit from behind. The NHL is letting everything go on Petey, some of which are borderline dangerous. He is 25, skinny and used to succeed with skill and drawing penalties but is now finding out that the NHL is going to let everything go on him. To be honest, he's playing scared. That's why he doesn't accelerate through the blue line with the puck like he used to. He slows down and chips it off the wall and let his line mates go after it. He doesn't hold the puck to try beating his guy because he's worried he'll turn the puck over because if he doesn't beat the guy cleanly, the refs won't make a call if the guy trips/tackles him and he'll look like the guy that cost his team the game. The only way out is for him to continue playing his game. If the refs start calling it again, great but if the refs continue to ignore the penalties, let the organization deal with it. He shouldn't change his game to an ultra safe no skilled dump and chase player. I think this is a good analysis. He's definitely struggled post All star game. He's also more targeted now since he's a top player on the team and he made the All start game. Less calls, more attention, and more physical playoffs = Petey less points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t3hbiggy Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 I've been thinking a lot about Petey's play and I think I have come up with another thought and I really think its the play style of Tocc. Not to say its wrong but maybe doesn't suit Petey's style. The Canucks have really been playing a north-south game, dump and chase with a strong 2 man forecheck to grind out, cycle back to the point and either got a shot off or pass to the half boards and shoot and really trying to control the play from behind the net if possible. When you have bigger guys that can do that, you will see success (JT Miller and Lindholm lines). If you look at some of Petey's more successful time, he prefers a more east-west game with a controlled entry into the zone and plays off the rush. Focusing more on generating off the rush and not grinding out pucks from behind the net. You can see with every play he gets grinded out, loses the puck and then the defending team rushes it out on the opposite side. There was some success with Hoglander because he is just fiesty, but in the playoffs he lost a bit of that steam which means more focus on Petey having to do that. I think this is where it comes to Tocc having to adapt to player styles a bit and allowing for a bit more creativity for Peteys line. A supporting cast would help to. Mikh shooting into the crest over and over again is not going to be successful and the play just tends to die with him as well. We have seen some flashes of the skillset there but when you've been just crushed along the boards enough times and your not getting the calls (to @CanucksJay post) I think you just lose the confidence. Anyways, maybe I misreading it but I think we need to have a bit more control on the entry for Petey's line and allow them to work on that instead of the dump and chase. Probably see a lot more opportunities. GCG!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 We need / want this demeanor! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherCanucksFan Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 1 minute ago, t3hbiggy said: I've been thinking a lot about Petey's play and I think I have come up with another thought and I really think its the play style of Tocc. Not to say its wrong but maybe doesn't suit Petey's style. The Canucks have really been playing a north-south game, dump and chase with a strong 2 man forecheck to grind out, cycle back to the point and either got a shot off or pass to the half boards and shoot and really trying to control the play from behind the net if possible. When you have bigger guys that can do that, you will see success (JT Miller and Lindholm lines). If you look at some of Petey's more successful time, he prefers a more east-west game with a controlled entry into the zone and plays off the rush. Focusing more on generating off the rush and not grinding out pucks from behind the net. You can see with every play he gets grinded out, loses the puck and then the defending team rushes it out on the opposite side. There was some success with Hoglander because he is just fiesty, but in the playoffs he lost a bit of that steam which means more focus on Petey having to do that. I think this is where it comes to Tocc having to adapt to player styles a bit and allowing for a bit more creativity for Peteys line. A supporting cast would help to. Mikh shooting into the crest over and over again is not going to be successful and the play just tends to die with him as well. We have seen some flashes of the skillset there but when you've been just crushed along the boards enough times and your not getting the calls (to @CanucksJay post) I think you just lose the confidence. Anyways, maybe I misreading it but I think we need to have a bit more control on the entry for Petey's line and allow them to work on that instead of the dump and chase. Probably see a lot more opportunities. GCG!! I posted about this issue of Tocchet and Petey's style conflict. I think it's the reason that Kuzmenko was traded. With Petey he can't be traded, so they'll have to sort it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 3 minutes ago, t3hbiggy said: I've been thinking a lot about Petey's play and I think I have come up with another thought and I really think its the play style of Tocc. Not to say its wrong but maybe doesn't suit Petey's style. The Canucks have really been playing a north-south game, dump and chase with a strong 2 man forecheck to grind out, cycle back to the point and either got a shot off or pass to the half boards and shoot and really trying to control the play from behind the net if possible. When you have bigger guys that can do that, you will see success (JT Miller and Lindholm lines). If you look at some of Petey's more successful time, he prefers a more east-west game with a controlled entry into the zone and plays off the rush. Focusing more on generating off the rush and not grinding out pucks from behind the net. You can see with every play he gets grinded out, loses the puck and then the defending team rushes it out on the opposite side. There was some success with Hoglander because he is just fiesty, but in the playoffs he lost a bit of that steam which means more focus on Petey having to do that. I think this is where it comes to Tocc having to adapt to player styles a bit and allowing for a bit more creativity for Peteys line. A supporting cast would help to. Mikh shooting into the crest over and over again is not going to be successful and the play just tends to die with him as well. We have seen some flashes of the skillset there but when you've been just crushed along the boards enough times and your not getting the calls (to @CanucksJay post) I think you just lose the confidence. Anyways, maybe I misreading it but I think we need to have a bit more control on the entry for Petey's line and allow them to work on that instead of the dump and chase. Probably see a lot more opportunities. GCG!! Just now, AnotherCanucksFan said: I posted about this issue of Tocchet and Petey's style conflict. I think it's the reason that Kuzmenko was traded. With Petey he can't be traded, so they'll have to sort it out. Im not really sold on this. RT is a North South guy but a lot of Pete's points have come from North south play where he comes in with speed off the rush, beats a defender and creates a mismatch where he finds an open guy or trailer. RT is the one saying hold the puck. Peteys the one handling it like a hand grenade and getting rid of it way sooner than he used to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Tocchet is a genius. He was probably constructive behind the scenes with the guys. And I bet he told them that he will needle the team in the media because the media just loves that. And here the media is just lapping it up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain insano Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, I.Am.Ironman said: It was still a penalty, and a stupid one at that. Miller cost us a goal there. It may not have been a high stick but it was certainly interference. The puck was no where close to them. If that’s interference there would be 20 calls a game for interference he was checking him perfectly and drai couldn’t win his free ice and flopped by throwing his head backwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 32 minutes ago, Darius said: How much do you guys think having Silovs in net affects how the team plays? Silovs has been great. Dont get me wrong. But is the lack of aggression / forecheck we see due to the whole team trying to minimize high danger chances ? When they fall behind like game 1 and yesterday we see a different side of the team where they will take risks and force the play. When they force the play they really expose the oilers behind their blue line. When they have the lead or tied they are far more conservative. I think this team plays differently with Demko back there. Maybe im nuts... Nailed it. The ultra-defensive , rope-a-dope thing isn't coming from Tocchet, who's been pushing them publicly to make some plays. It's coming from the team itself and almost certainly for the reasons you state. Hopefully they can trust Silovs a bit more. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyfan-observer Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 (edited) 43 minutes ago, CanuckMan said: I would play Lekkerimaki on Peteys wing. Seems like guys work well in duo’s and Petey doesn’t have a guy he clicks with like he did with Kuzmenko. Boeser-Miller Joshua-Garland Petey-? Lindholm makes that Joshua/Garland pair solid. And Suter is a good place holder on the Boeser/miller line. The chemistry on petey’s line is lacking. I would also look at Raty as he has played in the AHL reg season and playoffs (bit closer to NHL) and did not look too out of place apparently. I am not familiar with his play though since it is not shown too often on TV but scouting says he does have a 200ft game. Colliton should have a better grasp to see if he can handle the rigours the playoffs - think to put with some defensive forwards and see if things can open up a bit for that line. No need for JT to apologize - he along with 6-7 others have been very noticeable doing all they can to help - block shots, take hits, create hits, score - just look at all the sweat and guts - very impressive and happy hes a Canuck. I do not know what happened to some of the other forwards - injury, mental fatigue, confidence - several of them are a fraction of their play earlier in the year. Ten games into the post season and not a single point for some..bit speechless at this point. Without BB, Garland, Joshua probably overachieving and some key goals, this series would have been over. You look at Dallas - lines 1-2-3 all contribution along with good goal tending. With the Canucks two losses away for elimination, its not the time for "hoping to snap out of some rut" - they either do it now or it will be next year with probably 1/4 roster changed. Edited May 16 by hockeyfan-observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourHuckleberry Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 7 hours ago, stawns said: He has to stop trying to change players like Petey and Kuz and learn how to use the tools those kinds of players have to make the team better. If we're seeing one thing in this series, it's that letting highly skilled players play to their strengths is a smart way to do things. This suggests that you think Tocchet isn’t letting Petey play to his strengths, so I asked what you thought it was that Tocchet specifically wasn’t letting Petey do. 3 hours ago, stawns said: He's not giving him linemates he can succeed with and, while petey us great defensively, the pushing of the defensive, grind it out defense narrative drags down the offense. On the pp, every team line two guys up on Petey's side and as soon as there is a hint if the puck going to hum, both guys jump out to take the 1 timer away. Petey has, essentially become the decoy on the pp. RT has made no move to change the pp in any way and it is grossly predictable and stationary. Your response above suggests you think Tocchet isn’t letting Petey: (i) play with linemates he can succeed with; (ii) play offence because he preaches defence; and (iii) move on the PP, so I tried to respond to your observations. 23 minutes ago, stawns said: I didn't say he hasn't let him, I'm saying he hasn't made adjustments to best utilize the tools that petey has in his tool box. For all the crowing people did about kuzmenko not adjusting his game to fit tocchets system, we have to remember that players are born and developed with certain skill sets and not others and it's a coach's job to know what those tools are and how best to use them for the betterment of the team. Sure, we can ask kuz (for example) to be better defensively, but that's only going to be so effective because that's not who he is. So, as a coach, you have to figure out how you're going to get the very best out of him, not how you're going to force him to play your system tye way other players (like miller) might. That is, literally, his job. Now, Petey isn't the same because he's already very defensively, but he's good in a very highly skilled kind of way. He's great at knocking pucks out of the air, stealing pucks on the back check etc. a lot of his offense is created by that defensive skill set. He's never going to be a grind em out defensive fwd (though he's trying hard to be) and asking him to be that way takes away his offense. Tocchet has got tk be the one making the adjustments for skilled guys as much as those guys make adjustments to their game for his system. The problem with RT is that he's a hammer and when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and that's not how you manage a roster and their diverse skill sets, imo. BB was too far ond way RT is too far the other way..........he needs to find a happy medium or else they're going to take an $11.6m bath and have a disgruntled superstar in their hands that they can't get ridof Your last response ignores our entire conversation and doubles down on asserting things that you believe to be true without providing any analysis. What are the adjustments that you would like to see the coach make to better utilize Petey’s skill set? What does the coach specifically do, or what is it about his system, that you think hinders Petey‘s ability to utilize his skill set? You also suggest the coach is stubborn, which is kind of ironic because I’m not sure I’ve ever seen you change your position on something on here. Nevertheless, you may very well be right about everything we’ve talked about here - but help me understand what you’re seeing and give me some analysis rather than just making assertions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 27 minutes ago, AnotherCanucksFan said: In fact, more heinous penalties are now getting ignored where he's grabbed and tackled or crosschecked. Case in point is that Nashville play where he got hit after their goal celebration. Case in point is the Nurse boarding / hit from behind. The NHL is letting everything go on Petey, some of which are borderline dangerous. He is 25, skinny and used to succeed with skill and drawing penalties but is now finding out that the NHL is going to let everything go on him Not saying I agree or disagree but that sounds familiar. Hmmm, nice to know the twins are around to help EP through this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijjibo Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, BC_Hawk said: Do those other times correlate with injury too? My guess is yes. Great players like him just don't forget how to play night in and out. Do you recall how strong he was on his skates and playing to finish last year and start this year? I doubt Tocchet would publicly call out Pettersson on his play if there was an injury involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, BC_Hawk said: Do those other times correlate with injury too? My guess is yes. Great players like him just don't forget how to play night in and out. Do you recall how strong he was on his skates and playing to finish last year and start this year? In my opinion. He's never looked slower or weaker. If he isn't hurt, I wonder if he botched his offseason training last summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, flat land fish said: Move Miller to Peteys spot and play lekkerimaki in miller's? That would be a pretty dumb move, but RT makes some head scratchers, so who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphouse Canuck Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 2 hours ago, I.Am.Ironman said: We missed the forecheck of hogs the last 2 games. Not only that,but he gets under the skin of defenders and seems happy with all the extra curricular activities after the whistle. Basically he's more robust than Petey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Considerations Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Petey's overall game is decent, if anything he's been too engaged in puck battles along the boards. He's playing the system. Would be nice if his wingers could win more puck battles, create more turnovers and feed Petey the puck in open space. Also on breakouts, put the puck on Petey's stick as much as possible. Let him try and break the puck into the zone and create space in the offensive zone by ensuring he has someone backing him up should he lose the puck. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 57 minutes ago, Darius said: How much do you guys think having Silovs in net affects how the team plays? Silovs has been great. Dont get me wrong. But is the lack of aggression / forecheck we see due to the whole team trying to minimize high danger chances ? When they fall behind like game 1 and yesterday we see a different side of the team where they will take risks and force the play. When they force the play they really expose the oilers behind their blue line. When they have the lead or tied they are far more conservative. I think this team plays differently with Demko back there. Maybe im nuts... Nailed it. That is what I have been saying the whole time. As good as Silvos is, the team is playing more conservative. Now I am not saying they are doing it on purpose but the players are human and subconsciously they are taking less risks knowing they have a rookie goaltender that barely even have more than 10 nhl games in net. With Demko, the team knows that even if they f up with their high risk play, their Vezina caliber goalie will more than likely bail them out. It is just human nature. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck You Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 8 minutes ago, Rekker said: In my opinion. He's never looked slower or weaker. If he isn't hurt, I wonder if he botched his offseason training last summer. At the beginning of the season he was lights out...so don't think that would be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 9 minutes ago, Rekker said: In my opinion. He's never looked slower or weaker. If he isn't hurt, I wonder if he botched his offseason training last summer. I can definitely see him botched it in Sweden. He looks like he went all in in increasing muscle mass based in his training photos last off season. Could also be him not used to the additional mass as Petey never really looked right from the start of the season. He needs to stay in Van this summer and pretty much train with the those fitness freaks named Sedins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Canuck You said: At the beginning of the season he was lights out...so don't think that would be it. I don't know about you but outside of two weeks in January, Petey never looked lights out. Edited May 16 by 24K 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 8 minutes ago, Canuck You said: At the beginning of the season he was lights out...so don't think that would be it. Ya, but season wears you down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Buzzsaw- Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nucker67 said: I'm not sure they would want him around the team if he had a virus or something catchy. He's probably not sleeping well. His voice is husky, not his usual... sounds like he has the virus in his chest and congestion. And he appears drowsy... probably chock full of antihistamines. When asked about it, he acknowledges he has something, but doesn't go into detals. Nowhere near 100% physically... which makes me wonder why Tocchet is dumping all over him. Edited May 16 by -Buzzsaw- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Buzzsaw- Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Rekker said: In my opinion. He's never looked slower or weaker. If he isn't hurt, I wonder if he botched his offseason training last summer. Bull. Pettersson started the season leading the league in points for the first 20 games when he was paired with Kuzmenko. So clearly he wasn't out of shape. The answer for his issues are simple: 1) Kuzmenko got yanked from his line, and Tocchet did not replace him with another top six player. After that, the only time he played effectively was when the Lotto line was re-united and he was named player of the week. 2) Gradually he has began to understand Tocchet won't give him the linemates he needs to succeed, and he has lost confidence and energy. 3) He has some kind of flu bug or other virus which has been dragging on for at least a week and a half... it was first mentioned a while ago. Pettersson has tried to play Tocchet's game... he has been hitting way more, and trying to play a physical board game. It isn't working.. his skills and physical attributes are not such that he can succeed. He may have even given himself and injury doing that. He would be better off not to use his energy trying to hit and instead play his old style stick checking for the puck, which generated a lot of turnovers. Edited May 16 by -Buzzsaw- 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islandfan27 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Does this guy have any emotions at all , his teammates are all into the game leaning forward and one arm over the boards frigging into it and he sitting back straight up showing absolutely nothing. This interview he throws his linemates under the bus and he wears a A on his jersey what a disgrace take that away quit pampering this guy and give it to Garland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Buzzsaw- Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 27 minutes ago, 24K said: Petey never really looked right from the start of the season. Yeah, that's why he was leading the league in scoring through the first 20 games. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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