DeNiro Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Just now, stawns said: That's what unconditional love is........without conditions, no matter what. It doesn't mean you're ok with what they've done, just that you'll still love and support them anyway Absolutely. First thing a parent needs to do is have their kid tell them exactly what happened, no bs. Im sure there was a lot of lying going on throughout this whole thing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 10 minutes ago, StrayDog said: It's wrong to label a rapist a rapist? No, sorry, some things cannot be condoned in any way. I don't care if it was peer pressure, alcohol, or any of the other thousand excuses people drag out in these situations; those young men (not boys) did an unconscionable thing and they deserve to carry that label with them for the rest of their lives. You're not condoning anything by loving and supporting your child. Your just loving and supporting them. It's your job to bring them back a better person 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenbean30 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 9 minutes ago, stawns said: And there's an air of accountability for the hockey world as well. As I've said, foote is tangled up in this mess on two fronts, there's going to be questions he's going to have to face up to. He is only the parent of Cal Foote, that is the only way he is "tangled" up in this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 57 minutes ago, stawns said: You can feel empathy for the victim and the perpetrator of the crime and especially for the families on both sides. Empathy doesn't mean you excuse their behavior I feel like both of these points are worth emphasizing because the lives of both parties go on when legal proceedings wrap up one way or another. What do folks think happen to folks who end up in the legal system? They don't just disappear, many of them get involved with specialists like psychologists, counselors, social workers, parole officers, community organizations, law enforcement, and a slew of other professions. It's not necessarily always going to be an easy thing to do, but it's important that the individuals who end up working with perpetrators of criminal acts strive to utilize the empathy skill. Does that mean these professionals excuse the behaviour? Of course not. But they still work with these populations in a number of different capacities and settings. Abusers, victimizers, and people who do things that are generally frowned upon by society are still people who need support, that support often comes in the form of professional help. It often involves their communities, their families, their coworkers, their friends. Particularly when taking less conventional approaches to justice, such as Indigenous justice or mediation. In many cases perpetrators have also been victims, and while I'm not going to present that as a factor in this scenario, it often is the case. We don't live in a world of black and white, there's a lot of grey. At the end of the day individuals who commit acts many consider heinous are still people who have needs and rights. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Just now, greenbean30 said: He is only the parent of Cal Foote, that is the only way he is "tangled" up in this. And the coach of Dillon dube and cal. Doesn't mean he did anything wrong, but every stone needs to be turned over. Hockey in Canada needs to be held to acvount Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 18 minutes ago, King Heffy said: I'm on record as not being a Tocchet fan, but the media asking him about Foote is offside. He handled it well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post greenbean30 Posted January 24 Popular Post Share Posted January 24 Just now, stawns said: And the coach of Dillon dube and cal. Doesn't mean he did anything wrong, but every stone needs to be turned over. Hockey in Canada needs to be held to acvount He was never the coach of Cal and Dillon, they were both gone from the Kelowna organization when Adam was hired. Adam was hired in October 2018, Cal and Dillon were both in the AHL/NHL in 18-19. This event happened in June 2018, before Adam was hired, and neither player came back to the WHL after this occurred. 2 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, Miss Korea said: From a Canucks vantage point, this is about an assistant coach's kid. It might be enough for radio talk shows or even a small article, but there's not enough there to keep writing about it. Lets just hope that is true... I could easily see the Toronto press trying to disrupt the Canucks by keeping focus on this, if we were to meet the leafs (SCF yummy) or the Oilers in a play offs round. Again hopefully I'm wrong, but the lack of support in 2011 hasn't been forgotten. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stawns Posted January 24 Popular Post Share Posted January 24 Just now, Coconuts said: I feel like both of these points are worth emphasizing because the lives of both parties go on when legal proceedings wrap up one way or another. What do folks think happen to folks who end up in the legal system? They don't just disappear, many of them get involved with specialists like psychologists, counselors, social workers, parole officers, community organizations, law enforcement, and a slew of other professions. It's not necessarily always going to be an easy thing to do, but it's important that the individuals who end up working with perpetrators of criminal acts strive to utilize the empathy skill. Does that mean these professionals excuse the behaviour? Of course not. But they still work with these populations in a number of different capacities and settings. Abusers, victimizers, and people who do things that are generally frowned upon by society are still people who need support, that support often comes in the form of professional help. It often involves their communities, their families, their coworkers, their friends. Particularly when taking less conventional approaches to justice, such as Indigenous justice or mediation. In many cases perpetrators have also been victims, and while I'm not going to present that as a factor in this scenario, it often is the case. We don't live in a world of black and white, there's a lot of grey. At the end of the day individuals who commit acts many consider heinous are still people who have needs and rights. I don't often talk about this, but as a victim of severe childhood sexual assault, I feel I've got a pretty good footing here. Though my perpetrator did something horrible and unimaginable, I was able to come to realize that, at one point in his life, he was the victim same as I was. That changed everything for me and made look at life differently in general. I hold no I'll will against this person......quite the opposite, I feel sympathy that he was never able to come to peace with what happened to him. Life isn't black and white and things don't happen in a vacuum and everyone deserves some measure of empathy and understanding. 2 1 2 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman955 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Assuming everyone here is aware that this cannot be considered a First. The CHL has kept a fund for these types of non insured incidents. Why? Lives (1)and (2)careers are at hand here. The life l speak of is of the victim who will never recover. The careers l speak of are the offender or offenders. He or they can look elsewhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, stawns said: And the coach of Dillon dube and cal. Doesn't mean he did anything wrong, but every stone needs to be turned over. Hockey in Canada needs to be held to acvount If Adam wasn't Cal's dad, how does being Dube and Cal's coach months after the event took place have anything to do with this? By your definition, every player on the team that Dube, Hart, Foote, McLeod, and Formenton played for subsequent to that event are also 'tangled up' in this, along with the coaches, training staff, equipment staff, management, etc. It's a bit of a stretch to claim Adam being coach for these guys AFTER the event has anything to do with it. Adam being Cal's dad is the only line that should be drawn between the 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, greenbean30 said: He was never the coach of Cal and Dillon, they were both gone from the Kelowna organization when Adam was hired. Adam was hired in October 2018, Cal and Dillon were both in the AHL/NHL in 18-19. This event happened in June 2018, before Adam was hired, and neither player came back to the WHL after this occurred. I stand corrected, well done 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 8 minutes ago, stawns said: Even after conviction a parent should still love and support that child Yes maybe... I don't know, how I would feel if my son was convicted of gang rape of a woman. I would always love him, but.... I guess, for me at least, it would depend on a lot of things. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenbean30 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, HKSR said: If Adam wasn't Cal's dad, how does being Dube and Cal's coach months after the event took place have anything to do with this? By your definition, every player on the team that Dube, Hart, Foote, McLeod, and Formenton played for subsequent to that event are also 'tangled up' in this, along with the coaches, training staff, equipment staff, management, etc. It's a bit of a stretch to claim Adam being coach for these guys AFTER the event has anything to do with it. Adam being Cal's dad is the only line that should be drawn between the 2. And it's the only line that can be drawn. By the time Adam was hired to coach the Kelowna Rockets, Cal and Dillon had moved on to the AHL/NHL. Adam did coach his other son, Nolan though. That could be where the confusion has happened. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, stawns said: I don't often talk about this, but as a victim of severe childhood sexual assault, I feel I've got a pretty good footing here. Though my perpetrator did something horrible and unimaginable, I was able to come to realize that, at one point in his life, he was the victim same as I was. That changed everything for me and made look at life differently in general. I hold no I'll will against this person......quite the opposite, I feel sympathy that he was never able to come to peace with what happened to him. Life isn't black and white and things don't happen in a vacuum and everyone deserves some measure of empathy and understanding. Agreed. I'm sorry to hear you had to experience that, but I'm also glad to hear your came to a conclusion that's helped you move forward. Abuse can be, but isn't always, cyclical. I hope you've been able to heal, whatever that means to you. Heavy topic though, and personal, so I'll leave it at that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 The London Police Service says it will hold a press conference on Feb. 5 to provide an update on the 2018 World Juniors sexual assault allegations. https://www.londonpolice.ca/en/news/anticipated-press-conference.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 11 minutes ago, HKSR said: He handled it well. Despite Stawns wanting to crucify Tocc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Just now, Ghostsof1915 said: Despite Stawns wanting to crucify Tocc. Why would I want to crucify tocchet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekker Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Despite Stawns wanting to crucify Tocc. Can't, that's Heffy's job. Lol. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, stawns said: I don't often talk about this, but as a victim of severe childhood sexual assault, I feel I've got a pretty good footing here. Though my perpetrator did something horrible and unimaginable, I was able to come to realize that, at one point in his life, he was the victim same as I was. That changed everything for me and made look at life differently in general. I hold no I'll will against this person......quite the opposite, I feel sympathy that he was never able to come to peace with what happened to him. Life isn't black and white and things don't happen in a vacuum and everyone deserves some measure of empathy and understanding. So sorry to hear that man. I'm glad you've come to terms with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh90 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 17 minutes ago, stawns said: You're not condoning anything by loving and supporting your child. Your just loving and supporting them. It's your job to bring them back a better person 100% agree with this. Whomever doesn't agree with this is probably not a parent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 6 minutes ago, spook007 said: Lets just hope that is true... I could easily see the Toronto press trying to disrupt the Canucks by keeping focus on this, if we were to meet the leafs (SCF yummy) or the Oilers in a play offs round. Again hopefully I'm wrong, but the lack of support in 2011 hasn't been forgotten. As journalists, your focus has to be on the players, and the teams they're on. What will Calgary do with Dube? What will Philly and Jersey do with their guys? What will... Vancouver do with a dad? Even Toronto fans reading that article are going to shake their head. Read some of the non-Canucks comments in this reddit post. I just realized Ryan McLeod is Michael's brother. It's worth asking him questions once but not twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, HKSR said: So sorry to hear that man. I'm glad you've come to terms with it. All good, I'm not really shy about it. In a weird way, it's turned out to be a positive thing in my life 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 24 Author Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, stawns said: Fair, until the names are released. But I think it's pretty obvious, no? When the police tell you to surrender, you are being arrested The names of the players who are going to be arrested haven’t been released. You and everyone else like me are just assuming who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, Miss Korea said: As journalists, your focus has to be on the players, and the teams they're on. What will Calgary do with Dube? What will Philly and Jersey do with their guys? What will... Vancouver do with a dad? Even Toronto fans reading that article are going to shake their head. Read some of the non-Canucks comments in this reddit post. I just realized Ryan McLeod is Michael's brother. It's worth asking him questions once but not twice. Obviously Calgary and Philly will be most affected. Both teams stand to lose big time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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