[Report] Alex Formenton, Carter Hart, Michael McLeod, Dillon Dube & Cal Foote Charged with Sexual Assault in alleged incident during Hockey Canada event

[CanuckMan]

If they did it I hope they get hit with the full extent of the law and have their contracts terminated. They can go F off to Europe or something. 

[stawns]

Just now, CanuckMan said:

If they did it I hope they get hit with the full extent of the law and have their contracts terminated. They can go F off to Europe or something. 

 

If convicted they are most likely for suiting up for the local penetentiary team

[elvis15]

35 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Doubt it... will probably be removed from the books for all the teams.

I would assume so. If they're convicted (or even if the teams want to move on), their contracts would be put on waivers for the purposes of contract termination just like we did with Virtanen. It happens with players just wanting to leave the NHL as well. So long as the contract isn't a 35+ or anything like that then there aren't cap implications beyond the time they were active with the team.

[elvis15]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

 

I don't often talk about this, but as a victim of severe childhood sexual assault, I feel I've got a pretty good footing here.  Though my perpetrator did something horrible and unimaginable, I was able to come to realize that, at one point in his life, he was the victim same as I was.  That changed everything for me and made look at life differently in general. 

 

I hold no I'll will against this person......quite the opposite, I feel sympathy that he was never able to come to peace with what happened to him.

 

Life isn't black and white and things don't happen in a vacuum and everyone deserves some measure of empathy and understanding.

No wonder you're so passionate in this thread then. Glad you can share and have handled it as well as you seem to be, as that's a traumatic experience. Not everyone would be as forgiving.

[Gurn]

I hope a large number of the folk that have been posting in this thread-never end up on a jury.

The assumption that, the investigation took so long-they must be guilty, has been expressed in slightly different forms, by multiple people.

 

also keep in mind when you read/hear "the police have video/texts" it could all be bullshit- cops are allowed to lie and manipulate-right up until they are in front of a Judge.

They will often tell you bs to try and get you to either confess- or turn witness against someone else.

 

Many people are charged with many different crimes, and are found not guilty.

Sexual assault cases are usually harder to get convictions than other types of cases, just by the vary nature of the fact that 2 different people can see the exact same thing, but have different versions of just what happened.

 

Eventually a Judge will sort it out, that's why they get the big bucks.

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

No wonder you're so passionate in this thread then. Glad you can share and have handled it as well as you seem to be, as that's a traumatic experience. Not everyone would be as forgiving.

 

If I'm passionate here, it's because I saw, firsthand, how disgusting many elite hockey players are and how criminal behavior is swept under the rug by the hockey community.  

 

That said, I appreciate it

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Gurn said:

I hope a large number of the folk that have been posting in this thread-never end up on a jury.

The assumption that, the investigation took so long-they must be guilty, has been expressed in slightly different forms, by multiple people.

 

also keep in mind when you read/hear "the police have video/texts" it could all be bullshit- cops are allowed to lie and manipulate-right up until they are in front of a Judge.

They will often tell you bs to try and get you to either confess- or turn witness against someone else.

 

Many people are charged with many different crimes, and are found not guilty.

Sexual assault cases are usually harder to get convictions than other types of cases, just by the vary nature of the fact that 2 different people can see the exact same thing, but have different versions of just what happened.

 

Eventually a Judge will sort it out, that's why they get the big bucks.

 

Would you say that before arresting high profile citizens (athletes/celebrities), that the police and crown probably make sure they have an airtight case?  This is a monumental case, I don't see anyway they haven't amassed all the evidence they need and crossed every T and dotted every i.

 

 

[Attila Umbrus]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

 

That's true, but I'd say it's pretty obvious, no?  I also feel like Tocchets answer more or less confirmed foote

Agree,

 

And you have to wonder if that’s why the canucks were so adamant on staying away from Cal this offseason. So many of us wanted to sign him here. 
 

I’m sure Adam has been aware since the investigation started and like you said even before that. It’s been stated he’s not very close with Cal. Maybe they had a falling out over this? Totally spit balling but it’s interesting. 
 

I understand your statement on sticking by your kids no matter what. But maybe Adam has already tried this approach and got nowhere with him. What a tangled web we weave in this life. As a father myself I know I would be by my kids side, but in all honesty if they never took accountability for their actions I would have a tough time staying by their side if they are unwilling to change. You can only do so much as a parent. And it doesn’t mean you don’t love your kid if you dish out some tough love too. Sometimes you need to be lost to be found again. (Once again my opinion and totally spit balling)

 

Also just read about your own experiences. I’m sorry to hear about that man. But so happy to hear you’re doing well and are at peace. I’ve never been through anything like that myself but I can only imagine the mental toll it takes to get over it and move on. All the best to you good sir.

 

 

 

Edited January 24 by Attila Umbrus

[Attila Umbrus]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

If I'm passionate here, it's because I saw, firsthand, how disgusting many elite hockey players are and how criminal behavior is swept under the rug by the hockey community.  

 

That said, I appreciate it

Same here

 

The word for it now apparently is “toxic masculinity” and it’s VERY prevalent in the dressing room. I’ve played with lots of guys who are absolutely shitty to women. 
 

I also played football and it’s totally different in the locker room in my experience…but this is Canadian football. So we just weren’t idolized like the hockey jocks were. Our whole team were hard working farm kids

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Would you say that before arresting high profile citizens (athletes/celebrities), that the police and crown probably make sure they have an airtight case?  This is a monumental case, I don't see anyway they haven't amassed all the evidence they need and crossed every T and dotted every i.

 

 

I'd say they make an effort to investigate every alleged crime.

Virtanen was charged, and found not guilty.

Many famous folk get charged and found not guilty or guilty, depending on the evidence.

 

As to this case, I'd suggest the defendants' lawyers will point out that this allegation was investigated, and no charges where laid.

Then there was a public out cry and the investigation was resumed, now they have decided to lay charges.

So one could argue that these guys are only being charged because of their fame.

But it is a false argument, because the system doesn't care if you are famous, nor should it.

 

 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said:

Same here

 

The word for it now apparently is “toxic masculinity” and it’s VERY prevalent in the dressing room. I’ve played with lots of guys who are absolutely shitty to women. 
 

I also played football and it’s totally different in the locker room in my experience…but this is Canadian football. So we just weren’t idolized like the hockey jocks were. Our whole team were hard working farm kids

 

Not just women, everyone.  

[Attila Umbrus]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Would you say that before arresting high profile citizens (athletes/celebrities), that the police and crown probably make sure they have an airtight case?  This is a monumental case, I don't see anyway they haven't amassed all the evidence they need and crossed every T and dotted every i.

 

 

Absolutely correct. In something high profile like this you don’t drag million dollar athletes off their team on just mere conjecture. I’s and T’s are firmly dotted and crossed. Or they wouldn’t have kicked the hornets nest at all. There is too much at stake to take any other approach.

[elvis15]

13 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

If I'm passionate here, it's because I saw, firsthand, how disgusting many elite hockey players are and how criminal behavior is swept under the rug by the hockey community.  

 

That said, I appreciate it

That too. We've all seen the jocks and how some can be in a group as we went through high school. Hockey/junior hockey takes that up a level.

[Dizzle]

9 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Would you say that before arresting high profile citizens (athletes/celebrities), that the police and crown probably make sure they have an airtight case?  This is a monumental case, I don't see anyway they haven't amassed all the evidence they need and crossed every T and dotted every i.

 

 

With the way the legal system is, you could be exactly right or it could be almost the exact opposite. For example, because it’s a high profile case and because it’s sexual assault they may just be doing everything they can to get it in front of a judge.

 

end of the day, best case in any scenario like this is that you get as clear of facts as possible and the guilty are punished and the innocent go free. Figuring that out isn’t always as easy as we all wish it was. 
 

 

[Dizzle]

8 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said:

Absolutely correct. In something high profile like this you don’t drag million dollar athletes off their team on just mere conjecture. I’s and T’s are firmly dotted and crossed. Or they wouldn’t have kicked the hornets nest at all. There is too much at stake to take any other approach.

For who? 

[Attila Umbrus]

Just now, Dizzle said:

For who? 

For the police department to call in all 5 players. You don’t think so?

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Dizzle said:

With the way the legal system is, you could be exactly right or it could be almost the exact opposite. For example, because it’s a high profile case and because it’s sexual assault they may just be doing everything they can to get it in front of a judge.

 

end of the day, best case in any scenario like this is that you get as clear of facts as possible and the guilty are punished and the innocent go free. Figuring that out isn’t always as easy as we all wish it was. 
 

 

 

No argument, but this has been an investigation for 4 years, the last two pretty much continuous and very much in the public eye.  I just can't see them going into an arrest situation without due diligence

[stawns]

13 minutes ago, Gurn said:

I'd say they make an effort to investigate every alleged crime.

Virtanen was charged, and found not guilty.

Many famous folk get charged and found not guilty or guilty, depending on the evidence.

 

As to this case, I'd suggest the defendants' lawyers will point out that this allegation was investigated, and no charges where laid.

Then there was a public out cry and the investigation was resumed, now they have decided to lay charges.

So one could argue that these guys are only being charged because of their fame.

But it is a false argument, because the system doesn't care if you are famous, nor should it.

 

 

 

That was he said, she said.  In this case there were multiple perpatrators and sounds like multiple witnesses.......possibly even video evidence.

[Gurn]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

No argument, but this has been an investigation for 4 years, the last two pretty much continuous and very much in the public eye.  I just can't see them going into an arrest situation without due diligence

Who said they haven't used due diligence?

They investigated, and now the crown believes they have a strong chance at conviction- but the crown is wrong many times a day, at many courtrooms across Canada.

 

That is why we have Judges, and don't just toss people in jail- because the cops say something, and the crown prosecutor believes them.

Innocent - until proven guilty.    is supposed to mean just that.

 

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

No argument, but this has been an investigation for 4 years, the last two pretty much continuous and very much in the public eye.  I just can't see them going into an arrest situation without due diligence

 

I think sometimes there's only so much you can do, particularly with something like this. The crown may simply believe a victim and think that a jury will too. 

 

What I could see is the crown bringing charges, and then getting at least one of the 5 to be more forthcoming for a better deal once things become very real with charges. 

 

I don't know all the details on what happened, but if there was clearly no reasonable way consent for anything was given then you could be right, it might be very much locked down. Just have to wait and find out. 

 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Gurn said:

Who said they haven't used due diligence?

They investigated, and now the crown believes they have a strong chance at conviction- but the crown is wrong many times a day, at many courtrooms across Canada.

 

That is why we have Judges, and don't just toss people in jail- because the cops say something, and the crown prosecutor believes them.

Innocent - until proven guilty.    is supposed to mean just that.

 

 

Who said they were guilty?  I said I'd bet that the crown has an airtight case or they wouldn't arrest high profile athletes if they weren't sure.  

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

That was he said, she said.  In this case there were multiple perpatrators and sounds like multiple witnesses.......possibly even video evidence.

Maybe video evidence- but as I'd mentioned earlier, that could be bullcrap that the cops were using/saying in order to get one of the alleged to 'roll over'

Cops are allowed to lie- until they get in front of the Judge.

He said-she said.   Well if that is what they are going on, I'd suggest 5 people are going to say "didn't happen that way" and 1 person is going to say "Yes it did".

Fortunately the Judge is a highly paid and trained professional.

Let them do their job, until then this is all speculation.

[Dizzle]

4 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said:

For the police department to call in all 5 players. You don’t think so?

100% not. Once they decide what they’re going to do and once they get the crown to press charges they don’t care if they’re nhl players. 
 

the big thing with this is probably a lot of us don’t actually understand the process. The rcmp would have done the investigation and suggested charges to the crown. The crown then vets the information and decides whether or not this is a case worth pursuing. All the crown has to do is think there’s a chance the charges will stick and then they move forward.
 

depending on the case itself (and it appears to be so here) The guys are then alerted that they are being charged and asked to voluntarily present themselves to the rcmp where they are arrested and likely released with some sort of agreement. (Again that all depends on the severity etc). If they refuse to voluntarily appear then they will be pursued. 
 

within all of that, you could have a crown that cares deeply about what they do or doesn’t give a rats backside. You could have one that is more lenient because they’re hockey players or one that wants to get this in front of a judge because they don’t like jocks. 
 

We just don’t know what the background in all of this is and that’s why it’s so important to be careful about making assumptions. There is obviously enough there to make the crown think it’s worth pursuing BUT who knows what evidence they do or don’t have and who’s saying what and whether or not it’s true.
 

these situations are usually not as cut and dry as we’d like them to be and without all the information at our disposal all we can do is guess… and that can ruin lives.  

[Dizzle]

11 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

No argument, but this has been an investigation for 4 years, the last two pretty much continuous and very much in the public eye.  I just can't see them going into an arrest situation without due diligence

The thing is though that all they need is to think there’s a possibility of getting something… maybe not even on all 5 guys but on just 1 and they can press charges and see what happens. 
 

There is a very legitimate scenario where they’ve stuck all 5 in hopes of getting them to turn on each other and just end up getting an actual conviction on one. 

[Dizzle]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Who said they were guilty?  I said I'd bet that the crown has an airtight case or they wouldn't arrest high profile athletes if they weren't sure.  

An air tight case probably would have resulted in a conviction a lot sooner. Not 100% for sure… but probably.