stawns Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, Dizzle said: 100% not. Once they decide what they’re going to do and once they get the crown to press charges they don’t care if they’re nhl players. the big thing with this is probably a lot of us don’t actually understand the process. The rcmp would have done the investigation and suggested charges to the crown. The crown then vets the information and decides whether or not this is a case worth pursuing. All the crown has to do is think there’s a chance the charges will stick and then they move forward. depending on the case itself (and it appears to be so here) The guys are then alerted that they are being charged and asked to voluntarily present themselves to the rcmp where they are arrested and likely released with some sort of agreement. (Again that all depends on the severity etc). If they refuse to voluntarily appear then they will be pursued. within all of that, you could have a crown that cares deeply about what they do or doesn’t give a rats backside. You could have one that is more lenient because they’re hockey players or one that wants to get this in front of a judge because they don’t like jocks. We just don’t know what the background in all of this is and that’s why it’s so important to be careful about making assumptions. There is obviously enough there to make the crown think it’s worth pursuing BUT who knows what evidence they do or don’t have and who’s saying what and whether or not it’s true. these situations are usually not as cut and dry as we’d like them to be and without all the information at our disposal all we can do is guess… and that can ruin lives. The investigatuon was started in 2019, closed and then re-opened almost two years ago with new info coming out. Since then it has been an exhaustive investigation and you can bet the cops and crown don't want egg on their face with such a high profile case. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 5 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I think sometimes there's only so much you can do, particularly with something like this. The crown may simply believe a victim and think that a jury will too. What I could see is the crown bringing charges, and then getting at least one of the 5 to be more forthcoming for a better deal once things become very real with charges. I don't know all the details on what happened, but if there was clearly no reasonable way consent for anything was given then you could be right, it might be very much locked down. Just have to wait and find out. With the number originally being 8, I'm willing to bet that we may already have had something like that happen with the other 3. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Just now, King Heffy said: With the number originally being 8, I'm willing to bet that we may already have had something like that happen with the other 3. Agree completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, Dizzle said: The thing is though that all they need is to think there’s a possibility of getting something… maybe not even on all 5 guys but on just 1 and they can press charges and see what happens. There is a very legitimate scenario where they’ve stuck all 5 in hopes of getting them to turn on each other and just end up getting an actual conviction on one. This- so much this. Investigator says to Adam Foote (as an example) "Alex Formenton (as an example) says he saw you doing this. And it looks like we are going to have to charge you, unless you have something to say?' Crown and cops play potential perps against themselves all the time, trying to get at least one confession, or at least discover more evidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzle Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Just now, stawns said: The investigatuon was started in 2019, closed and then re-opened almost two years ago with new info coming out. Since then it has been an exhaustive investigation and you can bet the cops and crown don't want egg on their face with such a high profile case. Maybe, maybe not. If they left it they could have the media all over them for ignoring sexual assault. If they press charges and get nothing, or even just a marginal plea agreement, they ‘did the right thing’ in a lot of people’s eyes and walk away looking decent. That being said, I do think they have enough to make them think a conviction on some level is a good possibility. But again, we don’t know what info they are or aren’t working with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Just now, Dizzle said: Maybe, maybe not. If they left it they could have the media all over them for ignoring sexual assault. If they press charges and get nothing, or even just a marginal plea agreement, they ‘did the right thing’ in a lot of people’s eyes and walk away looking decent. That being said, I do think they have enough to make them think a conviction on some level is a good possibility. But again, we don’t know what info they are or aren’t working with. Agreed, but if I were a betting man I know where id put my money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 4 minutes ago, King Heffy said: With the number originally being 8, I'm willing to bet that we may already have had something like that happen with the other 3. good point. This whole thing really has so many difficult aspects to it. I just hope it doesn't take 6 more years to get to the end of it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzle Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, stawns said: Agreed, but if I were a betting man I know where id put my money I’ll say this… 5 years ago I would have agreed with you. A little bit of experience with the system has made me a little more skeptical as to how it all works. If the system is working how it should you’ll be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, Gurn said: This- so much this. Investigator says to Adam Foote (as an example) "Alex Formenton (as an example) says he saw you doing this. And it looks like we are going to have to charge you, unless you have something to say?' Crown and cops play potential perps against themselves all the time, trying to get at least one confession, or at least discover more evidence If course they do and that's already almost certainly be done by now. Originally it was 8 accused, but only 5 look like they'll be charged at this point. There's a pretty good chance that the other three weren't as involved and came clean to avoid more serious charges. As I said, this is tba he said, she said case. They also interviewed everyone connected with the team and, trust me, hockey players are more than happy to share their sexual conquests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: good point. This whole thing really has so many difficult aspects to it. I just hope it doesn't take 6 more years to get to the end of it. Me too, hopefully it's settled sooner rather than later and the healing and reckoning can begin 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenbean30 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, Dizzle said: Maybe, maybe not. If they left it they could have the media all over them for ignoring sexual assault. If they press charges and get nothing, or even just a marginal plea agreement, they ‘did the right thing’ in a lot of people’s eyes and walk away looking decent. That being said, I do think they have enough to make them think a conviction on some level is a good possibility. But again, we don’t know what info they are or aren’t working with. I'm guessing that they are going to offer plea agreements to all 5. I honestly would be shocked to see this go to court and have these 5 guys go to prison. The evidence would have to be super damning aka video evidence. And even if it was video evidence of a sexual act, unless the victim is screaming "No, Stop" then it's not proof of anything. Speculation can be a very harmful thing, the best bet is to wait and see how things play out. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDangles Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, stawns said: A lot of people gloss over this. HC literally has a fund to make stuff like this go away. Was it confirmed anywhere that HC actually has a fund for this and has used it in the past? Or was this a 1 time thing? Anybody know for sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawkDrummer Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) The whole thing makes me sad. I don't want to speculate on any of this. Edited January 24 by RawkDrummer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stawns Posted January 24 Popular Post Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, Dizzle said: I’ll say this… 5 years ago I would have agreed with you. A little bit of experience with the system has made me a little more skeptical as to how it all works. If the system is working how it should you’ll be right. Well, one thing I know is we all agree we want to see justice served 1 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, stawns said: As I said, this is tba he said, she said case. They also interviewed everyone connected with the team and, trust me, hockey players are more than happy to share their sexual conquests. Do we know all the specifics of the charges yet? I'm just wondering if its going to come down to consent issues if its as you say a he said, she said thing? I don't know all the details that have come out so far. I wonder if Hockey Canada can survive this as well. Maybe it shouldn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, greenbean30 said: I'm guessing that they are going to offer plea agreements to all 5. I honestly would be shocked to see this go to court and have these 5 guys go to prison. The evidence would have to be super damning aka video evidence. And even if it was video evidence of a sexual act, unless the victim is screaming "No, Stop" then it's not proof of anything. Speculation can be a very harmful thing, the best bet is to wait and see how things play out. A one on one encounter, I might agree. A gang rape by hockey players, some of whom went on to become millionaires? I don't think so. Of course it depends on the severity of the assault and degree of the charges, but I don't think it'll be a minor charge with 5 people involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Do we know all the specifics of the charges yet? I'm just wondering if its going to come down to consent issues if its as you say a he said, she said thing? I don't know all the details that have come out so far. I wonder if Hockey Canada can survive this as well. Maybe it shouldn't. I think it's got to be a tear down of hockey Canada and, as I said before, I'll be shocked if one of my junior buddies doesn't go down hard. He's one of the top brass and directly involved with the players and especially at events like this. Let's just say, when they hand out the medals, he's in the lineup.......at all levels, nit just Jr Edited January 24 by stawns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 5 minutes ago, JayDangles said: Was it confirmed anywhere that HC actually has a fund for this and has used it in the past? Or was this a 1 time thing? Anybody know for sure? There is such a fund, and it has been used before. Saw links to stories about it, on the old CDC. Iirc a big part of people's disgust, and changes at Hockey Canada were about government money going into that fund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 When you read it, it does not sound good. If they did, indeed, bring golf clubs into.the room to intimidate her and force to go on camera to imply consent then that's likely aggravated sexual assault https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/junior-hockey-sexual-assault-1.7093404 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, stawns said: I think it's got to be a tear down of hockey Canada and, as I said before, I'll be shocked if one of my junior buddies doesn't go down hard. He's one of the top brass and directly involved with the players and especially at events like this. Let's just say, when they hand out the medals, he's in the lineup.......at all levels, nit just Jr anyone who assisted in bringing this young woman to the hotel should go down hard, if its something like that he was involved in. Or knew about it. I had a number of buddies in high school on the Blades, and I'm not surprised about what some of hockey culture is. Some really disgusting stuff went on in the 80s in Saskatoon. But this stuff we're discussing today happened at a time when adults in particular are supposed to know better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stawns Posted January 25 Popular Post Share Posted January 25 3 minutes ago, Bob Long said: anyone who assisted in bringing this young woman to the hotel should go down hard, if its something like that he was involved in. Or knew about it. I had a number of buddies in high school on the Blades, and I'm not surprised about what some of hockey culture is. Some really disgusting stuff went on in the 80s in Saskatoon. But this stuff we're discussing today happened at a time when adults in particular are supposed to know better. Well, the people in charge now were the players in the 80's, so that isnt surprising. My teammate, though a fun guy to be around, was no friend to women and I know, for certain, was on the periphery of some pretty horrific stories told in the dressing rooms, not unlike this one. Sadly, those were stories told every week after a weekend of going out after games and listening to them talk about girls was disgusting to me, even as a teenager. Eventually.the culture of hockey drove me out of the game I loved to play. I could t be around it anymore 3 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarcore Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 4 minutes ago, stawns said: When you read it, it does not sound good. If they did, indeed, bring golf clubs into.the room to intimidate her and force to go on camera to imply consent then that's likely aggravated sexual assault https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/junior-hockey-sexual-assault-1.7093404 Well that is abhorrent. Also...why the fuck did they have golf clubs around Christmas in Buffalo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Just now, Gnarcore said: Well that is abhorrent. Also...why the fuck did they have golf clubs around Christmas in Buffalo? It was at a gala in June Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 3 minutes ago, stawns said: Well, the people in charge now were the players in the 80's, so that isnt surprising. My teammate, though a fun guy to be around, was no friend to women and I know, for certain, was on the periphery of some pretty horrific stories told in the dressing rooms, not unlike this one. Sadly, those were stories told every week after a weekend of going out after games and listening to them talk about girls was disgusting to me, even as a teenager. Eventually.the culture of hockey drove me out of the game I loved to play. I could t be around it anymore yep thats the stuff. Back then, people were very open about it. So much hazing stuff too. We also know that this is the story we've heard about. There are more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: yep thats the stuff. Back then, people were very open about it. So much hazing stuff too. We also know that this is the story we've heard about. There are more. I've told the story a few times here, but when I got to Portland, the veterans took all the new players aside and warned us to never, ever go into the GM's office by ourselves, to always go in with a teammate. I know of at least two former players who have some severe trauma following their days in Portland 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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