[Report] Alex Formenton, Carter Hart, Michael McLeod, Dillon Dube & Cal Foote Charged with Sexual Assault in alleged incident during Hockey Canada event

[Miss Korea]

23 minutes ago, Rekker said:

Deflecting I see. Figured as much.

 

Deflecting what exactly?  You just asked me if you think a girl is just as guilty for the way she conducts herself around a man who is obviously in the position of power.  Have you been living under a rock?

 

And why the fuck are you acting so smug and cocky?

[GrammaInTheTub]

44 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

His defense was 100% successful.  So I don’t know what the fuck you're talking about.  It seems like you've never been accused of slut-shaming, or you just don't know what it is?

Are you suggesting a successful legal defence is indicative of no wrong-doing? Because I would disagree.

 

I believe your disagreement with @Rekker lies in your unwillingness to see the validity in another argument. You seem to have a must win approach generally so I get it. I’m a zealous advocate myself. 
 

But, I can’t follow your logic in labelling Jake a sleezeball then saying his defense was 100% successful - like what are you getting at exactly? 
 

And to be clear, to limit the risk of you reading your own interpretation into my words, I am in full support of supporting survivors. I believe my posts here on this topic will speak for themselves on this matter. 

[Alflives]

25 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Deflecting what exactly?  You just asked me if you think a girl is just as guilty for the way she conducts herself around a man who is obviously in the position of power.  Have you been living under a rock?

 

And why the fuck are you acting so smug and cocky?

[Miss Korea]

3 minutes ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

Are you suggesting a successful legal defence is indicative of no wrong-doing? Because I would disagree.

 

I believe your disagreement with @Rekker lies in your unwillingness to see the validity in another argument. You seem to have a must win approach generally so I get it. I’m a zealous advocate myself. 
 

But, I can’t follow your logic in labelling Jake a sleezeball then saying his defense was 100% successful - like what are you getting at exactly? 
 

And to be clear, to limit the risk of you reading your own interpretation into my words, I am in full support of supporting survivors. I believe my posts here on this topic will speak for themselves on this matter. 

 

He was either completely innocent or got away with it.  Either way, he won his defence.  But if you ask a lot of girls in Vancouver, they know how much of a POS he was and how it fell in line with typical predatory behaviour from his position of power and influence.  I'm not calling him a rapist, just like how I'm not calling the five accused rapists.  But we know how SA cases work.  It's concerning to see people use Jake's case as an example of some innocent boy who got falsely accused.  Because to others it's a case of what happens when you try to fight big money in court.

 

All of that ties back to this brutal quote from Rekker: "Curious. If a woman acts like Jake did, a 'sleazeball' as you put it, and is raped. Does she not do herself any favours proving her case as well?"  Does that not sound like "the victim is guilty too" to you?

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

He was either completely innocent or got away with it.  Either way, he won his defence.  But if you ask a lot of girls in Vancouver, they know how much of a POS he was and how it fell in line with typical predatory behaviour from his position of power and influence.  I'm not calling him a rapist, just like how I'm not calling the five accused rapists.  But we know how SA cases work.  It's concerning to see people use Jake's case as an example of some innocent boy who got falsely accused.  Because to others it's a case of what happens when you try to fight big money in court.

 

All of that ties back to this brutal quote from Rekker: "Curious. If a woman acts like Jake did, a 'sleazeball' as you put it, and is raped. Does she not do herself any favours proving her case as well?"  Does that not sound like "the victim is guilty too" to you?

Yup. Can’t disagree. But perhaps being raised in a different era shines a different perspective? These five guys and others like them are predators. They’ve always been around. It’s why women need to be careful. Sure, there’s the argument that men should behave do women shouldn’t have to be careful. But that’s, sadly, just not reality. 

[Jaimito]

 

 

Posted a yr ago. 

 

 

[Rekker]

17 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

All of that ties back to this brutal quote from Rekker: "Curious. If a woman acts like Jake did, a 'sleazeball' as you put it, and is raped. Does she not do herself any favours proving her case as well?"  Does that not sound like "the victim is guilty too" to

I am done and you are not getting my point. I will take a previous posters advice and not bother trying to reason with you anymore. It's just too frustrating and pointless. 

[Miss Korea]

26 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup. Can’t disagree. But perhaps being raised in a different era shines a different perspective? These five guys and others like them are predators. They’ve always been around. It’s why women need to be careful. Sure, there’s the argument that men should behave do women shouldn’t have to be careful. But that’s, sadly, just not reality. 

 

Women, like men, should be able to express themselves sexually in whatever manner they choose, without having to worry about getting taken advantage of.  If women have to repress themselves so they can "be careful", what kind of miserable and unjust life is that?

 

13 minutes ago, Rekker said:

I am done and you are not getting my point. I will take a previous posters advice and not bother trying to reason with you anymore. It's just too frustrating and pointless. 

 

I don't think anyone really got your point.  You're blaming women for acting a certain way that might've gotten them raped.

[Barn Burner]

45 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup. Can’t disagree. But perhaps being raised in a different era shines a different perspective? These five guys and others like them are predators. They’ve always been around. It’s why women need to be careful. Sure, there’s the argument that men should behave do women shouldn’t have to be careful. But that’s, sadly, just not reality. 

Right there tells the whole story. 

 

I'm not going to pass judgment on anyone at this point, in this particular situation. I'll let the court decide. 

 

But... no matter who these young men are, or whatever the circumstances, they are the ones responsible to make their own choice. 

 

That's true for me, you, or anyone other person on this board or in this world. 

 

That's always reality. 

[Hammertime]

This has got to be a big distraction for Adam Foote. 

[Junkyard Dog]

14 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

This has got to be a big distraction for Adam Foote. 

 

Probably. Same for his other son Nolan who is playing in the AHL in Utica and who was teammates with his brother this season.

 

Should just take it a day at a time. I imagine if anyone's family member was accused of committing something terrible you probably just keep trying to move forward with what you yourself can deal with(being playing and coaching hockey for Nolan and Adam) while the situation plays out with said family member. Not much else you can really do but keep busy. 

[Gawdzukes]

20 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

This has got to be a big distraction for Adam Foote. 

 

Yeah for sure. He's always been very professional, calm, and cool. as a coach. I think he'll do as good as anyone can but yeah it can't be easy on him right now.

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, Gawdzukes said:

 

Yeah for sure. He's always been very professional, calm, and cool. as a coach. I think he'll do as good as anyone can but yeah it can't be easy on him right now.

 

Or his brother who was his teammate this year. 

 

Must be hard to fathom for both Adam and Nolan. 

 

Just gotta keep busy while this plays out. It might be best for the both of them to focus on what they can control which is playing and coaching the rest of the season out.

[Gawdzukes]

4 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

 

Or his brother who was his teammate this year. 

 

Must be hard to fathom for both Adam and Nolan. 

 

Just gotta keep busy while this plays out. It might be best for the both of them to focus on what they can control which is playing and coaching the rest of the season out.

 

Yeah. It's going to be rough but as you mention playing and coaching on sports teams is a great thing to focus on. I'm guessing it's possible they might have known for awhile. I just watched the news and they said this likely wouldn't be resolved until 2026 at the earliest.

[Sharpshooter]

Folks, attack the post. Not the poster. 
 

Don’t make it personal. 
 

 

[Sharpshooter]

Don’t make me do me. 
 

You won’t like it. 
 

Be kind and respectful. 
 

Argue the point till you’re satiated, but don’t make posts that are insulting or offensive. 
 

Last warning. 

[Don Brodka Jr]

Ooooooo 

Sharpshooter mod dude is PISSED! 

 

He's right though boys, Let it all go! 

It's simply not worth the energy to argue over privileged scumbag sexual predators in 2024.. 

It just isn't.

Go look at trees and nature and shit instead!

[GrammaInTheTub]

5 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

He was either completely innocent or got away with it.  Either way, he won his defence.  But if you ask a lot of girls in Vancouver, they know how much of a POS he was and how it fell in line with typical predatory behaviour from his position of power and influence.  I'm not calling him a rapist, just like how I'm not calling the five accused rapists.  But we know how SA cases work.  It's concerning to see people use Jake's case as an example of some innocent boy who got falsely accused.  Because to others it's a case of what happens when you try to fight big money in court.

 

All of that ties back to this brutal quote from Rekker: "Curious. If a woman acts like Jake did, a 'sleazeball' as you put it, and is raped. Does she not do herself any favours proving her case as well?"  Does that not sound like "the victim is guilty too" to you?

@Miss Korea you burned past everything I said and have not responded with anything meaningful to what I shared. I challenge you to respond better.
 

You respond with the same rhetoric so regularly but with slow maturation that I know you’re not a bot - just a very passionate person.

 

I’m done with you on this topic. 
 

I really hope it doesn’t feel like a “win” for you when members of this community say that they would rather not converse with you anymore. 

[Miss Korea]

1 hour ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

@Miss Korea you burned past everything I said and have not responded with anything meaningful to what I shared. I challenge you to respond better.
 

You respond with the same rhetoric so regularly but with slow maturation that I know you’re not a bot - just a very passionate person.

 

I’m done with you on this topic. 
 

I really hope it doesn’t feel like a “win” for you when members of this community say that they would rather not converse with you anymore. 

 

Enlighten me, then.  Honestly.  Explain to me what the hell he was trying to tell me in that quote I laid out.  

 

The reason I'm avoiding your question is because most of it's you having a go at me me personally.    Even now you're just trying to lecture me on behaviour and little else.  "I challenge you to respond better"?  Do you realize how condescending you're sounding?

 

I really don't care what people think about me when it comes to topics like this.  This is sexual assault.  There are too many people who have this simplified idea that one is either innocent or guilty based on evidence.  6% of sexual assaults are reported to the police in Canada.  1/5th of cases go to trial and only half of those trials result in a conviction.  The cards are absolutely stacked against SA victims.  And with the way this trial is looking to get set up, the defense lawyers aren't about to give any slack.

 

Regarding Jake... am I putting a double standard on him versus the women he slept with?  Absolutely.  His money and status was always going to put him in a position of power over the girls he got intimate with, and there were enough allegations for us to infer that he probably did abuse that power.  What more are you expecting me to say here?

[iinatcc]

Kind of gross to me that Calgary Flames official statement for Dube's absence was due to mental health reasons.

 

I get they didn't want to specify the real reason until it becomes official. But using Mental Health is a bit classless and trying to give Dube sympathy. 

[DrJockitch]

12 hours ago, Northern_Nuck said:

Unless there’s something in the PA contract that says they’re to stay away from criminal activity. One could argue that getting charged could be not staying away. 

 

12 hours ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

I’m guessing morality clauses in contracts prohibit them from being eligible to play while subject to a criminal investigation. See Lucic from earlier this year as an example. 

There is clearly language in the CBA that allows suspensions for behaviour unbecoming or something along those lines but Dube and Hart are high end players who make millions of dollars. 
At some point the money talks and a player rep will take this to court to challenge this using the presumption of innocence as an argument. Also probably at some point there may be a case saying that these charges are in a Canadian court and are blocking their ability to work across the boarder. This may be somewhat mitigated since the players are still getting payed but since they are young and will not be able to play in the NHL for at least a year it will significantly effect their earnings moving forward even if found innocent. 
To be clear I am not promoting any of this it is just intellectual curiosity.  I do see a challenge to a suspension like this at some point in one of the major sports. Was there a similar suit with one of the spouse abusers in the NFL?  The scumbag that went on to be a bad UFC fighter. I forget the details of that disgusting incident. 
We really need to stop putting these frequently steroid fuelled young men on such a pedestal. 

Edited January 31 by DrJockitch

[Alflives]

10 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Women, like men, should be able to express themselves sexually in whatever manner they choose, without having to worry about getting taken advantage of.  If women have to repress themselves so they can "be careful", what kind of miserable and unjust life is that?

 

 

I don't think anyone really got your point.  You're blaming women for acting a certain way that might've gotten them raped.

Of course every person should be free to express themselves as they wish. But that’s not reality. There will always be predators. And these types tend to be men. It’s why we see these kinds of terrible crimes. It’s why we have prisons. We don’t live in a utopian world. There will always be circumstances where a woman needs to be extra careful.

[Rekker]

6 hours ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

@Miss Korea you burned past everything I said and have not responded with anything meaningful to what I shared. I challenge you to respond better.
 

You respond with the same rhetoric so regularly but with slow maturation that I know you’re not a bot - just a very passionate person.

 

I’m done with you on this topic. 
 

I really hope it doesn’t feel like a “win” for you when members of this community say that they would rather not converse with you anymore. 

It's pointless. With this poster questions go unanswered and topics are deflected to avoid any true understanding of a different point of view. I would use the ignore button but after being a member since 2005 I am proud to say I haven't permanently used the ignore button yet. I will try my best to not comment on their posts anymore. Utterly pointless. 

[Northern_Nuck]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

 

There is clearly language in the CBA that allows suspensions for behaviour unbecoming or something along those lines but Dube and Hart are high end players who make millions of dollars. 
At some point the money talks and a player rep will take this to court to challenge this using the presumption of innocence as an argument. Also probably at some point there may be a case saying that these charges are in a Canadian court and are blocking their ability to work across the boarder. This may be somewhat mitigated since the players are still getting payed but since they are young and will not be able to play in the NHL for at least a year it will significantly effect their earnings moving forward even if found innocent. 
To be clear I am not promoting any of this it is just intellectual curiosity.  I do see a challenge to a suspension like this at some point in one of the major sports. Was there a similar suit with one of the spouse abusers in the NFL?  The scumbag that went on to be a bad UFC fighter. I forget the details of that disgusting incident. 
We really need to stop putting these frequently steroid fuelled young men on such a pedestal. 

 Yea-No you’re right. Money in Canada can completely get police to drop their charges in a criminal case.  Police were just out for a money grab and courts are for profit. 

  I don’t know if you’ve ever been charged with anything? But usually if the police have enough grounds to charge you with something criminally there’s enough evidence to not waste everyone’s time. These boys are F*cked. 
  Where the money comes into play and the lawyers, is that they'll probably avoid jail time when they’re found guilty. Their NHL careers are done, much like Jake Virtanen and Reid Boucher. 

[Chon derry]

Some mentioned “I wonder how Adam Foote is doing?” This got me thinking , with how continuous this is. With the victims mothers obvious stance ,calling the police etc. The players mothers, I’d be interested on their take of The situation.