Elias Pettersson Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 13 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: I have been asking the same questions, often to less than warm reception. I think the answer is the SPC has a morality clause and the CBA describes the appeals process for re-instatement and it goes through the commissioner’s office first and then likely an arbitrator. That is a guess though. I don’t think a morality clause has anything to do with being charged for a crime. I don’t think you can be fired from your job if you are charged with a crime and not be able to be employed during the time of the trial. If you are acquitted then it becomes even more complicated. Right now I believe all the players are still getting paid and are taking a leave of absence from their teams. We will see next week when formal charges are presented how the teams handle the contracts. And then of course what happens in the summer. Will anybody employ them for next season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 53 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I already mentioned about the other players testifying. E.M. alleged in her 2022 lawsuit that she was assaulted by eight players and TSN has confirmed that there were more than five hockey players in the hotel room at the time the alleged assault took place. Other players who were in the room are expected to be called to testify, according to a person familiar with the matter. “I fully expect other players who were there will be subpoenaed,” Maini said. “And in Canada you can't ‘plead the Fifth’ and not answer questions. You are required to answer…” All these guys have been coached and preparing for this for a while. They new what they were doing this is learned behavior. The worst part is their all gonna get away with it because our legal system is broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreanHockeyFan Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Friedman: "[regarding the 5 accused players] if a team wishes to do so, can they terminate the player's contract?" Bettman: "they're all on leave and they're all free agents by the end of this year - in order to terminate a contract, you need a contract to begin with" What a conniving deflection by Bettman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 2 minutes ago, Hammertime said: All these guys have been coached and preparing for this for a while. They new what they were doing this is learned behavior. The worst part is their all gonna get away with it because our legal system is broken. At the end of the day most of the Crown Counsel out there usually get their asses handed to them from high powered defence lawyers. That's the biggest problem IMO. I used to know a person who went to UBC and became a lawyer. She then went and got a job with the government and became Crown Counsel. She was doing murder and rape trials here in Vancouver. She eventually switched to a private law firm. She told me the pay was shit as a Crown Counsel and the hours were terrible. She has tripled her income since going into private law. The government really needs to increase wages and benefits for these lawyers. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 1 minute ago, KoreanHockeyFan said: Friedman: "[regarding the 5 accused players] if a team wishes to do so, can they terminate the player's contract?" Bettman: "they're all on leave and they're all free agents by the end of this year - in order to terminate a contract, you need a contract to begin with" What a conniving deflection by Bettman Like I said, the NHL will simply allow these contracts to expire at the end of the season. Conveniently, no team will sign them in the off season. @wai_lai416 This is where you will see lawsuits IF the players are acquitted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreanHockeyFan Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: Like I said, the NHL will simply allow these contracts to expire at the end of the season. Conveniently, no team will sign them in the off season. @wai_lai416 This is where you will see lawsuits IF the players are acquitted... Completely agree. Just can't help but speculate on this *coincidence* when I see Bettman give a sneaky little grin when giving his answer. I can see why NHL owners are in love with this guy. He's the perfect mix of an intelligent, corporate asshole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: At the end of the day most of the Crown Counsel out there usually get their asses handed to them from high powered defence lawyers. That's the biggest problem IMO. I used to know a person who went to UBC and became a lawyer. She then went and got a job with the government and became Crown Counsel. She was doing murder and rape trials here in Vancouver. She eventually switched to a private law firm. She told me the pay was shit as a Crown Counsel and the hours were terrible. She has tripled her income since going into private law. The government really needs to increase wages and benefits for these lawyers. Why if their shit at their job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: I already mentioned about the other players testifying. E.M. alleged in her 2022 lawsuit that she was assaulted by eight players and TSN has confirmed that there were more than five hockey players in the hotel room at the time the alleged assault took place. Other players who were in the room are expected to be called to testify, according to a person familiar with the matter. “I fully expect other players who were there will be subpoenaed,” Maini said. “And in Canada you can't ‘plead the Fifth’ and not answer questions. You are required to answer…” Could go deep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 26 minutes ago, Hammertime said: Why if their shit at their job? I'm pretty sure all the smart law students get into private law. That's where the money is at. I don't think many law students are jumping hoops to become Crown Counsel... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: I don’t think a morality clause has anything to do with being charged for a crime. I don’t think you can be fired from your job if you are charged with a crime and not be able to be employed during the time of the trial. If you are acquitted then it becomes even more complicated. Right now I believe all the players are still getting paid and are taking a leave of absence from their teams. We will see next week when formal charges are presented how the teams handle the contracts. And then of course what happens in the summer. Will anybody employ them for next season? Will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out. Sad and terrible thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenay Gold Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 37 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: Will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out. Sad and terrible thing. Truth be said; not very likely that very many of them will be signed to a contract in the off season even if found not guilty. Damaged goods by association is a factor. Look no further than Jake Virtanen. He was found not guilty by a jury but had trouble finding employment in the NHL afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 6 hours ago, Coconuts said: Didn't Bettman also state that there was no point to suspending the players? I think I now understand the NHL and its Board of Governors. It's not that they WON'T do the right thing, it's that they DON'T KNOW what the right thing is. I feel sad for them. Perfect opportunity for the league to get out from under the old school, old boys back room politics BS...it's essentially what the public outcry has been, that the old boys club that has been running hockey basically picks and chooses what to do in these situations based on who's involved, whether they sweep in the carpet fully or partially. Again, it's sad. Just come out publicly and suspend the players until the case is over, then do the right thing. Somebody over there in NYC must know what to do...right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 650 was talking about a couple of the five turning on the other three. Snd giving evidence against the others in a deal to lessen their prison time. Sure sounds like several of these guys are going yo the Big House for a very long time. Will they be filmed being raped? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUSK v2.0 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 The best thing about the police charging them, is all the evidence will become public in court. With these accusations and civil agreements or payouts, we dont see the details. The best thing for them is their defence gets as much attention as this woman. Not all woman are as innocent as we want them to be. And it has not been a fair fight for men in the last 15 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo5789 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 8 hours ago, Kootenay Gold said: Truth be said; not very likely that very many of them will be signed to a contract in the off season even if found not guilty. Damaged goods by association is a factor. Look no further than Jake Virtanen. He was found not guilty by a jury but had trouble finding employment in the NHL afterwards. Jake Virtanen got a PTO with Edmonton. He had every chance to earn a contract. He just wasn't good enough. Average numbers in a German league now. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 9 hours ago, Kootenay Gold said: Truth be said; not very likely that very many of them will be signed to a contract in the off season even if found not guilty. Damaged goods by association is a factor. Look no further than Jake Virtanen. He was found not guilty by a jury but had trouble finding employment in the NHL afterwards. I think Jake got a PTO with Calgary. He just sucked. Probably didn’t keep in shape or do anything during and after his trial. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 3 hours ago, VintageActualCanuckfan said: The best thing about the police charging them, is all the evidence will become public in court. With these accusations and civil agreements or payouts, we dont see the details. The best thing for them is their defence gets as much attention as this woman. Not all woman are as innocent as we want them to be. And it has not been a fair fight for men in the last 15 years. The other thing is that the other 3 players who were allegedly in the room will have to testify. I wonder if they are shitting bricks right now. Everyone will know they were there and didn’t stop whatever was happening. And why didn’t they get charged as well. Crown Counsel could also bring up the culture of hockey. Apparently the players involved were never advised of the $3.55 million settlement. That was the NHL and Hockey Canada trying to sweep this under the rug. They closed the case in 2019 after that settlement. They thought it was over. Only because of public pressure was it reopened. So the NHL has alot to lose here too IMO. The trial will be fascinating to see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 9 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: The other thing is that the other 3 players who were allegedly in the room will have to testify. I wonder if they are shitting bricks right now. Everyone will know they were there and didn’t stop whatever was happening. And why didn’t they get charged as well. Crown Counsel could also bring up the culture of hockey. Apparently the players involved were never advised of the $3.55 million settlement. That was the NHL and Hockey Canada trying to sweep this under the rug. They closed the case in 2019 after that settlement. They thought it was over. Only because of public pressure was it reopened. So the NHL has alot to lose here too IMO. The trial will be fascinating to see. Again Bettman is the man running the NHL.Does he gets jail time? If not he should at least get fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 37 minutes ago, cripplereh said: Again Bettman is the man running the NHL.Does he gets jail time? If not he should at least get fired. I hope that Crown Counsel goes for the jugular and goes to the dirty areas to talk about the culture of hockey and why the NHL and Hockey Canada tried to sweep this under the rug by paying off the accuser. And I hope that the players if they are found guilty at least have the decency to talk about all of the shit that has been happening and who was helping them to get girls, hotel rooms, etc. Apparently there was an older man with these players that night buying everyone drinks. Was he the “setup” man? I want all of the dirty laundry to come out from this trial. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 41 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I hope that Crown Counsel goes for the jugular and goes to the dirty areas to talk about the culture of hockey and why the NHL and Hockey Canada tried to sweep this under the rug by paying off the accuser. And I hope that the players if they are found guilty at least have the decency to talk about all of the shit that has been happening and who was helping them to get girls, hotel rooms, etc. Apparently there was an older man with these players that night buying everyone drinks. Was he the “setup” man? I want all of the dirty laundry to come out from this trial. Same here my friend, but also wants heads of hockey Canada and NHL to get jail or reprimanded somehow so no more cover ups like this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 14 hours ago, Kootenay Gold said: Truth be said; not very likely that very many of them will be signed to a contract in the off season even if found not guilty. Damaged goods by association is a factor. Look no further than Jake Virtanen. He was found not guilty by a jury but had trouble finding employment in the NHL afterwards. I think you are underestimating the self serving pressure teams are under. Jake’s own issues were going to push him out of the league soon anyway. Dube and Hart are high end players. Some self serving GM would absolutely bring one of them in if they thought it would help the, win/save job. Biggest problem for them coming back in the situation that they were found not guilty may just be time. They will probably have missed the rest of this season, all of next season and a chunk of the following. If the victim in this case wanted to really drag it out in a sense of justified vindication, a good lawyer could probably keep this spinning for a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 8 hours ago, Alflives said: 650 was talking about a couple of the five turning on the other three. Snd giving evidence against the others in a deal to lessen their prison time. Sure sounds like several of these guys are going yo the Big House for a very long time. Will they be filmed being raped? Yeah but this happens quite often. Vince McMahon is facing serious allegations now and Johnny Laurnaitus', the one linked to Vince in this story, legal team is trying to paint this all on McMahon and making Lauruniatis as the victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: I hope that Crown Counsel goes for the jugular and goes to the dirty areas to talk about the culture of hockey and why the NHL and Hockey Canada tried to sweep this under the rug by paying off the accuser. And I hope that the players if they are found guilty at least have the decency to talk about all of the shit that has been happening and who was helping them to get girls, hotel rooms, etc. Apparently there was an older man with these players that night buying everyone drinks. Was he the “setup” man? I want all of the dirty laundry to come out from this trial. The old adage is likely appropriate, "follow the money". How much influence does Hockey Canada really have in this scenario? Every 1st rdr in junior hockey has a cadre of support people starting with parents to agents to trainors to teammates. They have been told since they were 10-11 years old that they are special players. These young kids have to live up to an expectation of who and what they will become. Much of that 'expectation' has financial ramifications for not just themselves but many within their 'cadre'. That is a lot to put onto the mental well being of young people. Not saying that pressure to perform is necessarily bad but more resources should be available to guide their mental health. Many of the people associated with this incident demonstrate as much juvenile attitude as some of these hockey players apparently did. Media, general public and fans are all culpable. Perhaps the courts should pass judgement before others do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenay Gold Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, DrJockitch said: I think you are underestimating the self serving pressure teams are under. Jake’s own issues were going to push him out of the league soon anyway. Dube and Hart are high end players. Some self serving GM would absolutely bring one of them in if they thought it would help the, win/save job. Biggest problem for them coming back in the situation that they were found not guilty may just be time. They will probably have missed the rest of this season, all of next season and a chunk of the following. If the victim in this case wanted to really drag it out in a sense of justified vindication, a good lawyer could probably keep this spinning for a very long time. If you re-read what I said you will note I said : not likely that many will be signed. Hart and Dube are the two that I think might be signed the others not so much. Obviously a lot depends on the outcome of the trial, how long it takes, and if convicted, how much time to be served if any. One other thing to consider even for Hart and Dube is how they would be received by their teammates if re-signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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