[PGT]Round 2, Game 7 - Canucks vs Oilers - May 20th, 2024

[Rip The Mesh]

Now you tell me: Which one looks more likely to step on your dog's tail on purpose?

 

[RU SERIOUS]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Touching on our posts yesterday it's kind of odd that next year is the best to go all in. JR and PA never even figured we would be this good this year. I always thought they were planning for 2-3 years out myself ... even though that's right where the OEL hit is the worst. I still feel like that is kind of the smart way to go.

 

I would almost be looking to try to acquire a major piece at a time. Like this year maybe a cheap, young top 4 RD defender (we'd pay ... oh we'd pay)  that can actually add quality to the top 4, while providing very good contract value to alleviate cap problems. If we signed Hronek at a reasonable 7ish, or replace that would set our defence up for years and years and we would no longer have to worry about it every year. Keep in mind we should cover the OEL hit with increased cap limits. Of course this doesn't account for inflation across the league but we do have power over who we sign in that period.

I'd say there's only a 10% chance -Wreck and Lind- are both back - if even one of them.   Especially  -Wreck, who's agent said he's asking a minimum $8M/yr which needless to say is not realistic and Lind- expecting in the $9-10M range and term which is insanity to pay a guy at 30 and only a 2nd liner.   So unless both or either come back down to earth and really want to stay here, I'd say they are long-goners because we can use that sort of money ($18 Million) to pay for real stars.

[RU SERIOUS]

11 hours ago, AnotherCanucksFan said:

Yeah it was a strange post season for the Canucks. Many games they played scared and went into a shell, which made no sense given their great regular season. A lot of their 'staples" like tough forechecking and getting opponents to cough up pucks, and holding onto leads went away in the playoffs.

 

What killed us the most though was our PP. How many games did we lose momentum or play badly after getting PPs. We were 1-18. They had by far the worst PP of all teams left in the playoffs. Had they scored on some of their PPs most of the games would have had different outcomes. 4 minute PP in the first period of game 7 and they did nothing. That set the tone for the rest of the game.

Our PP has been a stale relic of the past for many years now and every team has us figured out with the exact same plays every PP.   No spontanious plays.   I'd suggest they get a new special teams coach and shake things up there because this has been a problem for 6-7 years now.

[BC_Hawk]

3 hours ago, -dlc- said:

 

If Myers is really 2m+change....that deal should get done ASAP. Great value for what he showed in POs. Ditto Joshua, though I'd say up to 3m; not a penny more.

 

The rest are WAY over inflated unless on very short terms; seem to represent ask vs actual. All three are mysteriously 1m over there true value....my guess is team offer/would start at 2m less than above, and we end in the middle. There is lots of room when we jettison Mikheyev's contract.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

If Myers is really 2m+change....that deal should get done ASAP. Great value for what he showed in POs. Ditto Joshua, though I'd say up to 3m; not a penny more.

 

The rest are WAY over inflated unless on very short terms; seem to represent ask vs actual. All three are mysteriously 1m over there true value....my guess is team offer/would start at 2m less than above, and we end in the middle. There is lots of room when we jettison Mikheyev's contract.

Someone would easily offer Zadorov that in the open market IMHO.  Hronek can get similar to that via arbitration IMHO (points, minutes played etc.,).  Granted it would be only one year long.

[BC_Hawk]

5 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

I'd say there's only a 10% chance -Wreck and Lind- are both back - if even one of them.   Especially  -Wreck, who's agent said he's asking a minimum $8M/yr which needless to say is not realistic and Lind- expecting in the $9-10M range and term which is insanity to pay a guy at 30 and only a 2nd liner.   So unless both or either come back down to earth and really want to stay here, I'd say they are long-goners because we can use that sort of money ($18 Million) to pay for real stars.

Ask versus get are 2 diff things. In addition, I wouldn't surprised if the 9-10m Lindholm is asking for is related to short term and NOT long as you indicated. According to reports, Petey wanted > 13m/8 years...ended up at 11.6m.

[RU SERIOUS]

3 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

And? What did that amount to? Nothing. 

Why? 

The 2011 team was built around them, and they fell short. They tried again in 2012 and lost to LA in five. That was a sign that things were on the decline. Then they were swept in 2013 to the Sharks. It was clear at that time, that the players from that core were done, including the Sedins. In 2013, they were 30 years old. Why would you choose to build a team around two 30 years olds?

Well said!   ...............and why they should not get into L.T. contracts with any of those guys at 30 and beyond.    You could allready see JTM running out of steam in the last few games and he's 31. So just imagine when his contract is up at the beginning of the next decade in the early 2030's when he's pushing 40 !   Same for Myers, Cole, Lind, D-Giuseppe, Mik.....   We all know by now what happens when you get into these L.T. deals with the old timers who demand NTC's!     Let's not make that mistake ever again!  That sort of thinking got this team into a mess for over a decade after they handed out 13 NTC's to the 2011 bunch and here we are today 13 years later finally getting back into the playoffs!   

Edited May 22 by RU SERIOUS

[BC_Hawk]

4 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Someone would easily offer Zadorov that in the open market IMHO.  Hronek can get similar to that via arbitration IMHO (points, minutes played etc.,).  Granted it would be only one year long.

Zadorov wouldn't easily get that on the open market. If so, his suitors in November would have been larger. He is a very good Dman man that fits our system to a T. Was probably a 4.5m prior to POs...bumped to 5m now with term to nux. On open market, add another 0.5m.

 

We hear the over value 2nd/3rd pair Dmen every year and it never materializes. True top 4 guys on the otherhand.....$$$$$$.

Edited May 22 by BC_Hawk

[BC_Hawk]

4 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Well said!   ...............and why they should not get into L.T. contracts with any of those guys at 30 and beyond.    You could allready see JTM running out of steam in the last few games and he's 31. So just imagine when his contract is up at the beginning of the next decade in the early 2030's when he's pushing 40 !   Same for Myers, Cole, Lind, D-Giuseppe, Mik.....   We all know by now what happens when you get into these L.T. deals with the old timers who demand NTC's!     Let's not make that mistake ever again!

Agree, but I think we need to look at the value (cap hit) the player will represent at that stage in their career. JT will play 3rd line minutes later in contract with  compensation that matches that. Ditto Lindholm.

 

But you are right; Myers, Cole, etc........no contracts >3 years please......2 years is all I would do. Ditto Joshua; the guy hasn't proven himself yet to get a LT contract.

 

 

Edited May 22 by BC_Hawk

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Just now, BC_Hawk said:

Zadorov wouldn't easily get that one the open market. If so, his suitors in November would have been larger. He is a very good Dman man that fits our system to a T. Was probably a 4.5m prior to Pos...bumped to 5m now with term to nux. On open market, add another 0.5m.

 

We hear the over value 2nd/3rd pair Dmen every year and it never materializes. True top 4 guys on the otherhand.....$$$$$$.

Myers got 5.5 million in the open market.  Never underestimate the ability of GMs tendencies to overpay to keep their jobs in the short term.

[BC_Hawk]

7 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Myers got 5.5 million in the open market.  Never underestimate the ability of GMs tendencies to overpay to keep their jobs in the short term.

And Marino got 4.4m last year when everybody here had him predicted at 5.5-6.5m. The year Myers signed was the year the cap was suppose to go up substantially, then didn't after new CBA; not a normal climate.

[RU SERIOUS]

6 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

Ask versus get are 2 diff things. In addition, I wouldn't surprised if the 9-10m Lindholm is asking for is related to short term and NOT long as you indicated. According to reports, Petey wanted > 13m/8 years...ended up at 11.6m.

I still would not sign Lind-.  He's 30y.o. this year and history has proven the vast majority by far of all players over 30 decline rapidly in their early 30's except for a rare few exceptional star players or strong work-horses and he is neither.     

 

The game is now a mid 20 y.o. game and there are only a dozen to a dozen & a 1/2 players in the league in their mid 30's and they are all studs or exceptional players.  So signing a L.T. 6-7 year contract with a guy like him is not a wise thing to do and even the JTM deal will become an anchor to the Canucks in a few short years because historical stats and facts prove so and why I said and still stand by my prediction that contract will become an albatross for the canucks eventually!

 

 Here are the age stats and a good article on aging in the NHL to sober everyone up into reality!  Facts matter!

https://media.nhl.com/site/vasset/public/attachments/2023/10/17309/By The Numbers 2023-24 Opening-Day Rosters.pdf

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/2862466/2021/10/04/nhls-top-30-over-30-counting-down-the-leagues-best-old-guys/

 

 

 

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Maniwaki Mauler said:

Does anyone suspect a conspiracy at play? Not coming directly from me but it would seem suspect that the Canucks truly did not play for period 1 and 2. Did they get paid off? 

No Canadian team has won the Cup since Bettman took over in 1993, 

 

I still believe we just ran out of gas after game 5. The team now knows what it's gonna take to get the Cup. 

[RU SERIOUS]

16 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

Agree, but I think we need to look at the value (cap hit) the player will represent at that stage in their career. JT will play 3rd line minutes later in contract with  compensation that matches that. Ditto Lindholm.

 

But you are right; Myers, Cole, etc........no contracts >3 years please......2 years is all I would do. Ditto Joshua; the guy hasn't proven himself yet to get a LT contract.

 

 

JTM will never finish out his contract - he'll be pushing 37 going on 38 and there are only 2 nhl players playing at that age now.    I predict that if he makes it to 34-35 it will be a miracle and they'll likely buy him out then if he isn't on LTIR by then.

[JayDangles]

36 minutes ago, viking mama said:

With all of the double-teaming players covering him, as the biggest threat upon his line, until Lindy joined him - Petey’s options were to pass & his set-ups were quite masterful! Mik just couldn’t put any lumber to them effectively & he was given many golden opportunities  that he could not convert. Mik wasn’t setting up Petey as gloriously & neither was Hoglander. They weren’t up to the challenge.
 

EP misses a Boeser-quality line-mate as his wingman. Miller got that particular gift from RT,  to train-up for the rigors of going up against the top-lines in the league as necessary. At some point, as Petey strengthens, matures,  develops, or re-invents himself with added grit, fire & tenacity…Boeser will reunite with him &  another like Lekkerimaki to perhaps become a legendary-line or force out there…like the legendary West-Coast Express line was in their day! 
 

I still suspect that Petey has been dealing with a gimpy wrist. He  likely needs additional surgery or will under-go more rehab for additional strength & flexibility there. His one/timer & shoot-first thinking wasn’t present & that may denote a lack of trust in his shot, some hinderance due to a weakness in its’ performance of motion…or pain. 
 

I’m waiting for some revelations or news on this, but even if EP were to say he’s okay….as a former high-performance athlete - I know one may require rehab for a year (even two), before returning to fit as a fiddle form, ….or before adapting well enough to one’s new normal to make the status-quo work well for you, again. 

 

I completely understand where you're coming from on your post, however you make a lot of excuses for Petey's play, most of which are based on zero evidence. I think we all want to believe he has some perfect injury that doesnt effect his skating, passing, hitting, stamina etc. but for some reason only effects his point totals. I just dont buy it. It's too convenient to just make up a phantom injury as an excuse.

 

In regards to his linemates, this to me is another excuse because its convenient. Sure, everyone would benefit from a better linemate, but its more Petey's job to make others around him better. PA shouldnt be paying him $11.5m and still have to go find him two $8m dollar wingers in order for him to produce. It's also not like Petey was putting up huge Powerplay points when out there with BB6, Miller, Hughes and Lindholm. He made others around him worse in the back half of the season.

 

[BC_Hawk]

3 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

I still would not sign Lind-.  He's 30y.o. this year and history has proven the vast majority by far of all players over 30 decline rapidly in their early 30's except for a rare few exceptional star players or strong work-horses and he is neither.     

 

The game is now a mid 20 y.o. game and there are only a dozen to a dozen & a 1/2 players in the league in their mid 30's and they are all studs or exceptional players.  So signing a L.T. 6-7 year contract with a guy like him is not a wise thing to do and even the JTM deal will become an anchor to the Canucks in a few short years because historical stats and facts prove so and why I said and still stand by my prediction that contract will become an albatross for the canucks eventually!

 

 Here are the age stats and a good article on aging in the NHL to sober everyone up into reality!  Facts matter!

https://media.nhl.com/site/vasset/public/attachments/2023/10/17309/By The Numbers 2023-24 Opening-Day Rosters.pdf

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/2862466/2021/10/04/nhls-top-30-over-30-counting-down-the-leagues-best-old-guys/

 

 

 

I'd sign him to 6 year contract, as I think he fits our current 3-5 year window well. However, I don't disagree; you need your own young developmental guys to to drive a perennial contender.

[Maniwaki Mauler]

1 minute ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

No Canadian team has won the Cup since Bettman took over in 1993, 

 

I still believe we just ran out of gas after game 5. The team now knows what it's gonna take to get the Cup. 

Also cause there is resentment towards no show not carrying his weight. No team especially guys that actually work hard, and go to the tough areas has respect for having to carry around dead weight. Especially when the dead weight has 11.6 on his back 

[RU SERIOUS]

26 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

Ask versus get are 2 diff things. In addition, I wouldn't surprised if the 9-10m Lindholm is asking for is related to short term and NOT long as you indicated. According to reports, Petey wanted > 13m/8 years...ended up at 11.6m.

We don't know but I would not get into bed in a L.T. contract with a 30 y.o. That is exactly what hampered this franchise for over 13 years when the 2011 gang were all handed NTC's.   Let's not repeat history!

[AnthonyG]

42 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Lol, nice so ignoring literally cold hard facts with numbers and instead rely on a little completely irrelevant little R. Reckon that's there since his last game he moved up to take Boeser spot on the side due to injury. A particularly absurd argument, since the line he spent the majority of his time on wing with, when he was playing wing, was Boeser and Miller, where he was playing L wing. 

Hard facts are he is not a stable C. 1/3 of his time on the wing, based off of line combinations. Not only that, but how he plays in the o-zone is more of a wingers job. He’s smart enough to play as a C in the dzone, but not strong enough and his talent goes to waste the more he is in the corners in the ozone. He is not a true centre. 
Kuzmenko did more work in the corners than Pettersson because of his leg strength and explosiveness. Mikheyev is a grinder like Hansen that you can afford to leave in a corner and take himself out of the play. Playmaking C is virtually a winger in the o-zone, because they need space to make plays. Centre’s dont have much space if they play like a true C. They are typically big and strong and use strength to their advantage to open up the ice for themselves.

 

still waiting on your cap casualty list, for these game changers you say we lacked.

 

honest question, if Pettersson was producing and the PP was clicking, do you still believe we need two more game changers to win that series/go deeper?

[RU SERIOUS]

1 minute ago, RU SERIOUS said:

We don't know but I would not get into bed in a L.T. contract with a 30 y.o. That is exactly what hampered this franchise for over 13 years when the 2011 gang were all handed NTC's.   Let's not repeat history!

 

2 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

I'd sign him to 6 year contract, as I think he fits our current 3-5 year window well. However, I don't disagree; you need your own young developmental guys to to drive a perennial contender.

Once again, look at the facts in the stats and you'l see there are only a dozen skaters playing in th NHL after 33 y.o. and they are exceptional players or studs.   Signing Lind- to a 6 year contract at 30 y.o. does not make any sense based on facts.   It will just beome another L.E. or OEL contract.    Take a moment to look at the REAL FACT/STATS on page 3 of; .......https://media.nhl.com/site/vasset/public/attachments/2023/10/17309/By The Numbers 2023-24 Opening-Day Rosters.pdf.   

 

Sober/sound thinking is required by Canucks Mgmt to avoid a repeat of the foolish NTC and L.T. contracts thrown around by previous administrations that screwed this team for 13 years!  If it means passing up on a player - so be it !

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

We don't know but I would not get into bed in a L.T. contract with a 30 y.o. That is exactly what hampered this franchise for over 13 years when the 2011 gang were all handed NTC's.   Let's not repeat history!

 

No, shitty pro scouting did. Don't confuse Benning with Rutherford et al.

[RU SERIOUS]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

No, shitty pro scouting did. Don't confuse Benning with Rutherford et al.

It wasn't Benning that did that - it was the previous MG gang that created the mess after 2011-12, although JB also signed his fair share of ridiculous contracts - continuing the tradition!

 

 

Edited May 22 by RU SERIOUS
typo

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I don't buy that for a second. I doubt the Canucks offered full term, and $8M. I'd offer $8 million and 4-5 years to Stamkos.

 

 

Far better option probably. 4 years only though. Stamkos wouldn't be wasted playing 3rd line shut down minutes, and would be the same age at the end of the contract. How good would he and Petey be together? 

[RupertKBD]

22 hours ago, NoHeart said:

 Silovs just played 10 straight playoff games. 
The coach loves him, the team loves him. 
He has made the NHL. DeSmith is a UFA backup. Why on earth would Silovs not be in the NHL next year?

 

Have to agree. The only caveat being that maybe the organization wants him to play starter's minutes for another season and CDS can be re-upped for a team friendly price.

 

That being said, I think your scenario is more likely....

 

 

[viking mama]

2 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

A bit had to do with Duncan Keith acting like Macho Man Randy Savage throwing an elbow to the head of Daniel Sedin.

 

^Green-lit & enabled by officiating ineptitude …by O’Halloran & perhaps Sutherland, I will check that … as those regular on-ice drama amplification machines tended to do…in any Game involving the lofty Canucks, an O-6 team, or their stronger divisional rivals,  for sure. 

 

If I recall the officials let Duncan Keith remain in that game to further insense the entire Vancouver Canucks bench & coaching staff, by assessing a measely 2 min penalty, for what the league later thought worthy of a 6-game suspension! ^This after loud, audible & targeted threats were levied from the opponents bench, prior.

 

It cannot be stated emphatically enough, how VERY critical fair & properly-vetted officiating crews & their deployment schedules are to the integrity of NHL games & in particular, play-offs.
 

This league’s most senior officials are far from their best! They appear to hold the most grudges, enact carry-over justice game to game, have publicly stated biases & clearly have fading skills. The NHLPA has to find a way to assess, rank & evaluate NHL referees in order to get the best of the best working during the play-offs & remove through black-balling - (if necessary) those referees who by strong argument have proven themselves unsuitable for assignment to a particular series or play-off round.
The NHLPA must demand this during their new CBA negotiations.
 

And, can we please turf Bettman by then, already ,he’s like Dracula….an immortal who will never retire???!

 

With gamblers/gambling money involved….the need for accountability & scrutiny in this area is critically essential. Our Canucks have suffered horribly in the past via a process that seeded extremely suspect officials, to work their play-off games. Who directly appoints the director of officiating? What gratuitous favours may be exacted, gained or implied, by such a person or body of people having this privilege? 
 

Stop the insanity!
 

Maybe a new NHL/NHLPA committee needs to be established …something called the NHL’s new Ethics Committee….for the fairness, transparency & accountability of  professionalism in the sport of NHL hockey. 

 .  
^Make it so’! 

 

 

 

Edited May 22 by viking mama