Run that shit back (Proposal)

[Baratheon]

No thanks lol

I get that people want certain guys back but look at what is required to do so.  This proposal has 3-4 guys stepping up and becoming NHL regulars plus Hirose as the 7th D.  Not ideal.

 

Fortunately we won't to worry about it. Does anyone legitimately think that PA/JR would come back with the same lineup and say Bob's your uncle?  Does that sound like how they operate?

[R3aL]

To me it sounds like 

 

- Hronek is potentially as good as gone

- they could try to move mik if possible with taking no money back 

- lindy they will make our max offer hoping to sign him 

- they are going to go after guentzel as a top priority 

- our defence will be a mix of bargain bin finds, guys on short term deals wanting to be a part of our team, live in the area or are looking to build up value for the self for their next contract

 

sounds like management will be ruthless in not overpaying our guys to keep them and will look to replace them with guys that can provide surplus contract value while also upgrading our top end ceiling.

[Maniwaki Canuck]

Kudos to op for doing the work on this.  While I do think Myers at 3 mil is a bit optimistic, maybe some of Arty's 2 mil could top it up.  Quibbles aside, this exercise shows that it's not totally impossible to run most of it back.  Personally, I think management  is a bit more ruthless than that and will be looking to get some new bargains rather than pay the players who were bargains this past season.  But for those of us who connected emotionally with this year's team, it's a comforting thought.  Frankly, players like Joshua and Zadorov are real dilemmas:  unique skill sets who really thrived on the team, but can now demand more than a smart GM should pay them.  But I do think op nails the amounts it would take to sign both. 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, Fantomex said:

Don't mind him, he hasn't had a well thought out post in decades. Too much of the glugg-glugg...

I try not to notice. 

[Bobby James]

6 hours ago, BPA said:

Problem is…I think Canucks are really dead set in making Petey a #1C on his own line and not a winger on Miller line.  They want 2 high powered scoring line.

I don't think this is a problem. That should be our one two punch down the middle. Petey needs some linemates that he gels with and that is not going to be Mik. Hogs did well and should only get better. They really need a good scoring winger to pair with Petey long term or if you think Lekkermaki is that guy, then they need a 1-2 year scorer as a stop gap for now. 

 

Petey is clearly going through something, but look at even his last couple games after they finally pulled Mik off his line and put him with a genuine top 6 player in Lindholm. He immediately started playing better and being more effective. 

[flickyoursedin]

On 5/21/2024 at 10:49 PM, AngryGoose said:

 

IMO go w if possible:

 

Hughes Tanev

Soucy Myers

Dillon Juulsen

 

Id hate to lose Z but Dillon would be a great replacement and that’s still a physical D to deal w.  

Yeah as much as I love Zadarov if he’s going to get 6 mill I’d rather get Dillon at 3.75-4.25 mill and save 2 mill a season.

[flickyoursedin]

23 hours ago, R3aL said:

To me it sounds like 

 

- Hronek is potentially as good as gone

- they could try to move mik if possible with taking no money back 

- lindy they will make our max offer hoping to sign him 

- they are going to go after guentzel as a top priority 

- our defence will be a mix of bargain bin finds, guys on short term deals wanting to be a part of our team, live in the area or are looking to build up value for the self for their next contract

 

sounds like management will be ruthless in not overpaying our guys to keep them and will look to replace them with guys that can provide surplus contract value while also upgrading our top end ceiling.

Yeah if Lindy doesn’t sign before FA he’s gone! Management will have their best offer on the table and once FA hits they’ll surely pivot and use that allocated top 6 money to try and get Guentzel.

[spook007]

On 5/22/2024 at 6:11 AM, Hammertime said:

Honestly let's run this roster back.

 

They have gained so much and really desrve another kick at the can before changes are made. My big fear is that we will make moves based on players who under performed this playoffs. (Pete/Hronek)  their peak is infront of them and man that game 7 blast from Hronek that was telegraphed all the way by Huggy before the puck was dropped. We paid the price to get these guys and their great. I vote insted of shopping this offseason lets trim this team's fat. And focus on re signing from within. We don't need shiny toys this is a roster than can win a cup we need to galvanize our core. 

 

 

 

If we can shave a couple 100k it's a 22 man roster. 

 

The cap increasing will cover OEL and we have Willy, Lex, D Pete, Raty, coming from the farm 2025/26. That's when to make moves. 

Like this, but Lindholm reportedly wanted around $9M (I believe was mentioned in Calgary), Hronek wants $8M... 

 

[Hammertime]

4 hours ago, spook007 said:

Like this, but Lindholm reportedly wanted around $9M (I believe was mentioned in Calgary), Hronek wants $8M... 

 

I would like a time machine to go back to the 80s and buy a house in Van. The only way Lindholm gets 9m anywhere is if he borrows my time machine and goes back to 2022 but even then it sounds like he couldn't pull 9m. He put up 44points this year and 64 the year before. He would be silly not to take 7.5 to stay here and chase a cup. But hey if he finds a gm willing to pay 9 go get that money. 

 

Hronek I'm indifferent 8 is too much if he's stead fast on it at least we get a return in trade. He no showed in the 2nd half. 

 

I don't think JR PA will be pushed around. They will get the deal that makes sense for both sides and if they can't agree he'll be on the Utah Puddytats. 

[R3aL]

8 hours ago, flickyoursedin said:

Yeah if Lindy doesn’t sign before FA he’s gone! Management will have their best offer on the table and once FA hits they’ll surely pivot and use that allocated top 6 money to try and get Guentzel.

I think they will try to get both lindholm and Guentzel 

[R3aL]

2 hours ago, Hammertime said:

I would like a time machine to go back to the 80s and buy a house in Van. The only way Lindholm gets 9m anywhere is if he borrows my time machine and goes back to 2022 but even then it sounds like he couldn't pull 9m. He put up 44points this year and 64 the year before. He would be silly not to take 7.5 to stay here and chase a cup. But hey if he finds a gm willing to pay 9 go get that money. 

 

Hronek I'm indifferent 8 is too much if he's stead fast on it at least we get a return in trade. He no showed in the 2nd half. 

 

I don't think JR PA will be pushed around. They will get the deal that makes sense for both sides and if they can't agree he'll be on the Utah Puddytats. 

The only way I see lindy contract getting inflated is just from market desperation 

 

boston has a desperate need and lindholm could stylistically fit pretty well between Marchand and Pasta they could over pay.

 

i wouldn’t want to go past 7 for lindholm

 

im so curious about the Hronek situation even listen to the interviews it sounds like PA doesn’t want Hronek primarily flanking Hughes and if we do keep him it would be to anchor his own pairing 

[flickyoursedin]

5 minutes ago, R3aL said:

I think they will try to get both lindholm and Guentzel 

Time to work that LTIR! Would be insane if they could make both guys fit! Pettersson, Hughes and Miller take some time off I mean LTIR

[Hammertime]

1 hour ago, R3aL said:

I think they will try to get both lindholm and Guentzel 

If youre right and Guentzel is 9+ though I agree he would definitely have a great opportunity here if he doesn't put up 80+ points and more importantly create for his line yikes I liked the idea of a try before buy this deadline on him but once we got Lindholm the assets would have been too much. I agree with the Lindholm try before buy of the 2 players. Both together would have been a 1 and done run for this team. It could have been glorious!

 

I feel like if we can acquire the big banana Thachuk without giving up Pete you go all in. Or if Dak negotiations are going poorly (he want's 5m w term... I would go up to short term 2 years 4.5 or 3.5 for 5 for Dakota, I met in the middle @ 4x4) I would look at maybe a side ways deal to move Mik for Anderson MTL who I feel underperformed, and someone like Crouse, Tuch, Wilson + Malenstyn..... For Hronek +/- depending on his contract demands, I think maybe we end up in a better place than with G Unit at 9+. I could be wrong though Guentzel could be schweet!

 

I don't like the idea of moving Hronek much I think his best hockey is infront of him. Tin foil hat I think maybe not the main but possibly one of the reasons we haven't seen Hroneks shot featured until game 7. Quinn getting the Norris. 

 

Truth be told though Hughes has really worked on his shot and he creates more opportunities to shoot by shaking loose and getting a snappy labeled wrister on net.  Maybe the blast from the point is dead? We saw it in game 7 though and it worked. I don't think weve seen the best of Hronek yet. But I don't buy the argument, that he rode Hugs coat either I don't think Hughes is the ideal partner for Hronek's personal skillset if the shoe were on the other foot. In other words Hronek is a equal partner for Hughes counting stats than he is also a byproduct of. By playing 2nd fiddle. 

 

Said n done though you can only pay him 2nd fiddle money. if he finds a dance partner for 8+ you make a trade and start high. Because a 1st 2nd and 3rd will be the offersheet cost. As a fan of the draft that's pretty neat too.  

 

 

Edited May 24 by Hammertime

[spook007]

8 hours ago, Hammertime said:

I would like a time machine to go back to the 80s and buy a house in Van. The only way Lindholm gets 9m anywhere is if he borrows my time machine and goes back to 2022 but even then it sounds like he couldn't pull 9m. He put up 44points this year and 64 the year before. He would be silly not to take 7.5 to stay here and chase a cup. But hey if he finds a gm willing to pay 9 go get that money. 

 

Hronek I'm indifferent 8 is too much if he's stead fast on it at least we get a return in trade. He no showed in the 2nd half. 

 

I don't think JR PA will be pushed around. They will get the deal that makes sense for both sides and if they can't agree he'll be on the Utah Puddytats. 

The way they dealt with Horvat was a lesson to everyone... They are not going to do anything, they don't feel is right...

[R3aL]

6 hours ago, Hammertime said:

If youre right and Guentzel is 9+ though I agree he would definitely have a great opportunity here if he doesn't put up 80+ points and more importantly create for his line yikes I liked the idea of a try before buy this deadline on him but once we got Lindholm the assets would have been too much. I agree with the Lindholm try before buy of the 2 players. Both together would have been a 1 and done run for this team. It could have been glorious!

 

I feel like if we can acquire the big banana Thachuk without giving up Pete you go all in. Or if Dak negotiations are going poorly (he want's 5m w term... I would go up to short term 2 years 4.5 or 3.5 for 5 for Dakota, I met in the middle @ 4x4) I would look at maybe a side ways deal to move Mik for Anderson MTL who I feel underperformed, and someone like Crouse, Tuch, Wilson + Malenstyn..... For Hronek +/- depending on his contract demands, I think maybe we end up in a better place than with G Unit at 9+. I could be wrong though Guentzel could be schweet!

 

I don't like the idea of moving Hronek much I think his best hockey is infront of him. Tin foil hat I think maybe not the main but possibly one of the reasons we haven't seen Hroneks shot featured until game 7. Quinn getting the Norris. 

 

Truth be told though Hughes has really worked on his shot and he creates more opportunities to shoot by shaking loose and getting a snappy labeled wrister on net.  Maybe the blast from the point is dead? We saw it in game 7 though and it worked. I don't think weve seen the best of Hronek yet. But I don't buy the argument, that he rode Hugs coat either I don't think Hughes is the ideal partner for Hronek's personal skillset if the shoe were on the other foot. In other words Hronek is a equal partner for Hughes counting stats than he is also a byproduct of. By playing 2nd fiddle. 

 

Said n done though you can only pay him 2nd fiddle money. if he finds a dance partner for 8+ you make a trade and start high. Because a 1st 2nd and 3rd will be the offersheet cost. As a fan of the draft that's pretty neat too.  

 

 

Hard not to imagine guentzel not landing in the 8.5-9.5M range.

 

has an insane playoff resume and a super desirable skill set.

 

i do think he partners pretty perfectly with both JT and Petey and would be the perfect PP fit for our unit.

 

losing Lindy sucks because if we lose him we lose RHC. We no longer have a RHC again. He was pretty pivotal on the PK too

 

i don’t understand the tin foil hat thinking. You think Hronek wasn’t shooting more because of Quinn being more of the guy? 
 

I thought Ekholm and Bouchard both did a better job getting shots through. They did have forwards that gave our guys more space to operate but still. 
 

And even in Nashville Hronek shot was just not a factor. Even on blocks he wasn’t making guys pay the price the way he could I think.

 

im torn on Hronek. I’d prefer him to be a guy on his own pair that played situationally with Hughes and I wish we saw it more throughout the year.

 

 

[Hammertime]

On 5/22/2024 at 11:13 AM, Baratheon said:

No thanks lol

I get that people want certain guys back but look at what is required to do so.  This proposal has 3-4 guys stepping up and becoming NHL regulars plus Hirose as the 7th D.  Not ideal.

 

Fortunately we won't to worry about it. Does anyone legitimately think that PA/JR would come back with the same lineup and say Bob's your uncle?  Does that sound like how they operate?

Lol their just place holders for demonstrative purposes.  There are plenty of NHL journeymen out there like PDG for 800K. 

[Baratheon]

2 hours ago, Hammertime said:

Lol their just place holders for demonstrative purposes.  There are plenty of NHL journeymen out there like PDG for 800K. 

I still don't like the idea of filling out the roster with those types of guys just to bring back a slightly watered down version of this year's roster. 

 

Like I said.  This management group doesn't operate that way anyways.  The whole discussion is most likely a moot point.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Baratheon said:

I still don't like the idea of filling out the roster with those types of guys just to bring back a slightly watered down version of this year's roster. 

 

Like I said.  This management group doesn't operate that way anyways.  The whole discussion is most likely a moot point.

 

We also have some players in the AHL that could take on those roles on the 4th line, which would be the direction I'd go if we can't find any bargains.

[Baratheon]

4 hours ago, c00kies said:

 

We also have some players in the AHL that could take on those roles on the 4th line, which would be the direction I'd go if we can't find any bargains.

Yeah that was a part of my original comment.  I'm not in love with it.  Just for the sake of running back the same team?  I'd rather the team try to find ways of improving.

Fortunately that's exactly what PA says he's trying to do.  So I'm not too worried about it.  History has shown that he doesn't operate this way.

[Alflives]

7 hours ago, c00kies said:

 

We also have some players in the AHL that could take on those roles on the 4th line, which would be the direction I'd go if we can't find any bargains.

Raty and Pods will both be on the big club next season. Not too sure if D Petey is ready yet, but he’s certainly close. 

[Hammertime]

2 hours ago, Baratheon said:

Yeah that was a part of my original comment.  I'm not in love with it.  Just for the sake of running back the same team?  I'd rather the team try to find ways of improving.

Fortunately that's exactly what PA says he's trying to do.  So I'm not too worried about it.  History has shown that he doesn't operate this way.

Of course. You do realise that means we would have to make cap in cap out moves.

 

Right now Mik is the only cap out guy to move and everyone else, we would either just purely be letting walk + whatever assets the cost would be to acquire said players or other FA's. Like Guntzel would be great but would likely mean we couldn't afford 2 of our fa's In this scenario I think it would make sense to Move Hronek for assets (a cost controlled player + pix to offset the cost to move Mik). 

 

I could see that working. But I feel more strongly that if it aint broke. This year our guys gained a lot of experience. I do believe guys like Hogs, Juulsen, Pods, Bains, Aman, Karlsson will be ready for the next step next year. If they stumble PA will bring in a journeyman. A la Friedman. 

 

The reality is we wont be able to bring in much farmed out depth (Lafferty Blueger). But I like our farm to table depth. 

 

The last thing I think we should do is tool too much I think we're just scratching the surface with this core Brock has a bee in his bonnett and it will be a contract year, Pete is going into the off season with a ton to prove. Zadz, Dak Lindholm were 3 of our top 6 scores and they didn't even play scoring deployment they had to transition defense into offense. Lekkerimaki and Willander, D Pete are coming but their a year + away. I'd run it back and re tool next year depending on how we do. 

 

 

 

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

Of course. You do realise that means we would have to make cap in cap out moves.

 

Right now Mik is the only cap out guy to move and everyone else, we would either just purely be letting walk + whatever assets the cost would be to acquire said players or other FA's. Like Guntzel would be great but would likely mean we couldn't afford 2 of our fa's In this scenario I think it would make sense to Move Hronek for assets (a cost controlled player + pix to offset the cost to move Mik). 

 

I could see that working. But I feel more strongly that if it aint broke. This year our guys gained a lot of experience. I do believe guys like Hogs, Juulsen, Pods, Bains, Aman, Karlsson will be ready for the next step next year. If they stumble PA will bring in a journeyman. A la Friedman. 

 

The reality is we wont be able to bring in much farmed out depth (Lafferty Blueger). But I like our farm to table depth. 

 

The last thing I think we should do is tool too much I think we're just scratching the surface with this core Brock has a bee in his bonnett and it will be a contract year, Pete is going into the off season with a ton to prove. Zadz, Dak Lindholm were 3 of our top 6 scores and they didn't even play scoring deployment they had to transition defense into offense. Lekkerimaki and Willander, D Pete are coming but their a year + away. I'd run it back and re tool next year depending on how we do. 

 

 

 

We have good management again so there shouldn’t be any repeat of Benning (the moran) type moves. IMHAO we will see moves like what Gillis the great did and we are even better next year. 

[Baratheon]

15 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

Of course. You do realise that means we would have to make cap in cap out moves.

 

Right now Mik is the only cap out guy to move and everyone else, we would either just purely be letting walk + whatever assets the cost would be to acquire said players or other FA's. Like Guntzel would be great but would likely mean we couldn't afford 2 of our fa's In this scenario I think it would make sense to Move Hronek for assets (a cost controlled player + pix to offset the cost to move Mik). 

 

I could see that working. But I feel more strongly that if it aint broke. This year our guys gained a lot of experience. I do believe guys like Hogs, Juulsen, Pods, Bains, Aman, Karlsson will be ready for the next step next year. If they stumble PA will bring in a journeyman. A la Friedman. 

 

The reality is we wont be able to bring in much farmed out depth (Lafferty Blueger). But I like our farm to table depth. 

 

The last thing I think we should do is tool too much I think we're just scratching the surface with this core Brock has a bee in his bonnett and it will be a contract year, Pete is going into the off season with a ton to prove. Zadz, Dak Lindholm were 3 of our top 6 scores and they didn't even play scoring deployment they had to transition defense into offense. Lekkerimaki and Willander, D Pete are coming but their a year + away. I'd run it back and re tool next year depending on how we do. 

 

 

 

Our opinions aren’t as far off as you might think.  Perhaps I have more faith in our management’s ability to make moves than you do.  
Think back to this time last year.  You never could have imagined the players that we would add.  It also would have been crazy to suggest moving Kuzmenko.  Yet here we are.

 

 I for one believe that PA/JR can replicate past success even if the cap seems tight.  I’m sure some guys will be back but some won’t and others will be moved.  This is normal.  Once upon a time it was infuriating that we moved Garth Butcher.  That ended up being one of the finest moves in our teams’ history. 

[Johnny]

I think if we are going to be keeping lindholm both mik and garland are out.

 

hoglander can be the new garland

 

i also think moving Hronek and going after Demalo and or Pesce would be good

 

Garland and mik to chicago for a 2nd and 3rd

 

Hronek to Carolina for Necas, sign to 6.5x6

 

resign Blueger for 2.2

 

Podkolzin - Miller - Boeser

Petey - Lindholm - Necas

Joshua - Blueger - Hoglander

Karlsson - Suter - Aman

 

Hughes - Pesce/Demalo

Zadorov - Myres

Soucy - Juulsen

 

i would also be looking for a heavy gritty 4th liner that can PK and is a good forechecker with a little bit of speed

[R3aL]

a Run it back scenario where we keep almost everyone pre lindholm.

 

Replace kuzmenko with JM and replace Zadorov with Dillon..

 

Are we better:

 

 

Running it back with a twist:

 

replacing:

 

kuzmenko with JM

Lindholm with Stephenson

Mikehyev with Heinen

Zadorov with Dillon

 

 

Could see JM liking the idea of staying in the west / pacific and getting to make Vegas pay for not wanting to bring the OG import back.

 

I also could see him working really well on Petey wing short term while giving management a lot of flex and space for JL in the next couple years.