[Specualtion] Canucks considering buying out Mikheyev contract

[Hammertime]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I wouldn’t trade Silovs. He is the future. I would trade Demko instead. Not interested in paying him Hellebuyck money as he’s too injury prone.  It would be a massive mistake to extend Demko to an 8.5x8 contract at 30 years old. 
 

Silovs will no doubt be the backup ne t season. And I have no doubt he will light it up. Therefore, I think you trade Demko in the summer 2025. Ottawa is one trading partner. Carolina is another. Utah could be aggressive. Buffalo. Of course Toronto. New Jersey. 
 

Heck, if Allvin wants to be super aggressive there is a small chance they could move Demko this summer. 
 

IMO, all options are on the table. 

Demko has another 2 years. I think you need to give Silovs the backp job and if he steals the starting role from Demko then you look to move Demko next offseason the way Swayman has taken the role on Bos. 

 

Moving Demko now would be foolish. It's not like Silovs was a world beater in the AHL this year. 

 

 

Do you remember that great run from Spencer Martin that got him re signed? And how he did afterwards. Lets see how Silovs does next year in the NHL now that teams have been feverishly writing a book on him. 

[Hammertime]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Silovs has literally played more playoff games than Demko. Are you actually comparing Silovs to Eddie Lack?  
 

Silovs was the best PLAYER at the World Championships last year. The Canucks hung him out to dry in several playoff games. 
 

His technique is flawless. Better than Demko. And he never gets injured. Demko is a hospital’s wet dream. 

Thats crazy though you have to see that.? Of course we all hope you are right and Silovs turns out amazing. But trading Demko rn. Is a no from me. If Silovs beats a healthy Demko thats a different story. Marky was up for a big contract situation. Demko is not. It's not apples to apples. At the time if you had the luxury of another year of Marky Demko combination. That's a good place to be. Demko Holtby and Demko,Martin/Delia weren't exactly a roaring success. Cooking Silovs and mentoring him properly to be prepared for a 30-50 game season and playoffs is the way to go.  We could win the Jennings for 7m.  

 

Logan Thompson playe'd lights out for Vegas during the reg. Hill won the cup! 

Edited May 27 by Hammertime

[Pickly]

6 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Just like Eddie Lack was the future. 

 

Canucks fans never learn. You can’t make a bold claim like that off such a small sample size.

 

He needs to be a backup for a couple seasons before we even consider him being the future.

And he will be a backup for a couple of seasons. Is he the future? I say yes. Needs some fine tuning but his small sample size indicates he’s capable of handling the rigours of being a starter. Demko is amazing but like discussed is injury prone and cannot be relied on. No sense in fucking with the goaltending situation by trading any of them or you’ll end up like Toronto or Carolina. 

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

On 5/23/2024 at 7:49 PM, Alflives said:

We aren’t considering buying out Mik. He’s a very good middle six winger when healthy. 

[JeremyCuddles]

4 minutes ago, I.AM.THE.WALRUS said:

He does the little things. Reminds you of someone does it not?

[nzan]

7 hours ago, JeremyCuddles said:

He does the little things. Reminds you of someone does it not?

At least Mik isn't here for 6 x 6 and his most memorable little thing isn't an own goal

[Viking]

On 5/23/2024 at 7:26 PM, RWJC said:

Just add the required pick and trade the guy. We dont need any more dead cap.

it cost us a 2nd to lose Dickinson at nearly half the cap hit. Teams would ask us for a 1st. 

 

I would call Dubas and offer Mik plus something for R. Smith who is 5m for 1 year I believe. Smith can score and likely produce with #40...where Mik can't score and is an overpaid soft winger who has some speed but I think Dennis Pederson could have score more on that line and he had hands of stone!

[Viking]

1 hour ago, nzan said:

At least Mik isn't here for 6 x 6 and his most memorable little thing isn't an own goal

It is still a terrible contract given out by the current GM, they make mistakes and this signing is a big one

[canuck73_3]

21 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I wouldn’t trade Silovs. He is the future. I would trade Demko instead. Not interested in paying him Hellebuyck money as he’s too injury prone.  It would be a massive mistake to extend Demko to an 8.5x8 contract at 30 years old. 
 

Silovs will no doubt be the backup ne t season. And I have no doubt he will light it up. Therefore, I think you trade Demko in the summer 2025. Ottawa is one trading partner. Carolina is another. Utah could be aggressive. Buffalo. Of course Toronto. New Jersey. 
 

Heck, if Allvin wants to be super aggressive there is a small chance they could move Demko this summer. 
 

IMO, all options are on the table. 

Trading Demko now is beyond dumb. At the very least if entertaining that direction he stays next season minimum. 

[HKSR]

We're not gonna buyout Mikheyev.  Here's the simple reason why...

 

A buyout of Mikheyev would cost us in cap space:

2024-25:  $1.15M

2025-26:  $2.15M

2026-27:  $1.55M

2027-28:  $1.55M

 

We would be FAR better off if we just retained on Mikheyev to be able to trade him for some value coming back. 

 

For example, retention of $1.5M, the cost for us in cap space:

2024-25:  $1.5M (+$350k vs a buyout)

2025-26:  $1.5M (-$650k vs a buyout)

2026-27:  $0M (-$1.55M vs a buyout)

2027-28:  $0M (-$1.55M vs a buyout)

 

It would be a clear net positive in terms of savings on cap hit over the 4 upcoming years to just retain $1.5M on Mikheyev and probably be able to trade him for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

 

So there you go.  Makes absolutely NO sense to buyout Mikheyev when you can just retain about the same amount and dramatically improve your chances of trading him.

 

Sorry @Elias Pettersson, Garland avatar coming soon for you lol

 

Edited May 27 by HKSR

[DeNiro]

16 minutes ago, HKSR said:

We're not gonna buyout Mikheyev.  Here's the simple reason why...

 

A buyout of Mikheyev would cost us in cap space:

2024-25:  $1.15M

2025-26:  $2.15M

2026-27:  $1.55M

2027-28:  $1.55M

 

We would be FAR better off if we just retained on Mikheyev to be able to trade him for some value coming back. 

 

For example, retention of $1.5M, the cost for us in cap space:

2024-25:  $1.5M (+$350k vs a buyout)

2025-26:  $1.5M (-$650k vs a buyout)

2026-27:  $0M (-$1.55M vs a buyout)

2027-28:  $0M (-$1.55M vs a buyout)

 

It would be a clear net positive in terms of savings on cap hit over the 4 upcoming years to just retain $1.5M on Mikheyev and probably be able to trade him for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

 

So there you go.  Makes absolutely NO sense to buyout Mikheyev when you can just retain about the same amount and dramatically improve your chances of trading him.

 

Sorry @Elias Pettersson, Garland avatar coming soon for you lol

 

People said the same thing about OEL.

 

They’ll try to trade him for sure but if there are no takers he will be bought out. I don’t see him being on the roster next season.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

People said the same thing about OEL.

 

They’ll try to trade him for sure but if there are no takers he will be bought out. I don’t see him being on the roster next season.

OElevator is a 2 mil player who was making over 8. Big difference. 

[HKSR]

7 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

People said the same thing about OEL.

 

They’ll try to trade him for sure but if there are no takers he will be bought out. I don’t see him being on the roster next season.

As @Alflives eluded to above, OEL was playing more at the level of an Ian Cole when we had to try to do something with him.  He was playing like a $3M defenceman.  We would have had to retain $4.26M on him for 4 years to make him a viable trade option.  We wouldn't have seen any real cap advantage until years 3 and 4 when the buyout cap hits are above the retention amount.

 

Mikheyev, on the other hand, is playing like a $3.5M forward.  So retaining the $1.25 to $1.5M makes a lot more sense.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

We're not gonna buyout Mikheyev.  Here's the simple reason why...

 

A buyout of Mikheyev would cost us in cap space:

2024-25:  $1.15M

2025-26:  $2.15M

2026-27:  $1.55M

2027-28:  $1.55M

 

We would be FAR better off if we just retained on Mikheyev to be able to trade him for some value coming back. 

 

For example, retention of $1.5M, the cost for us in cap space:

2024-25:  $1.5M (+$350k vs a buyout)

2025-26:  $1.5M (-$650k vs a buyout)

2026-27:  $0M (-$1.55M vs a buyout)

2027-28:  $0M (-$1.55M vs a buyout)

 

It would be a clear net positive in terms of savings on cap hit over the 4 upcoming years to just retain $1.5M on Mikheyev and probably be able to trade him for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

 

So there you go.  Makes absolutely NO sense to buyout Mikheyev when you can just retain about the same amount and dramatically improve your chances of trading him.

 

Sorry @Elias Pettersson, Garland avatar coming soon for you lol

 

 

Sorry, but my Garland avatar isn't happening, no matter how much you try and manifest it...   

 

Nobody is taking on Mikheyev even at $1.5M retained.  We'd have to add a sweetener.  He's getting bought out.  I can feel it.  I'm one for one in buyout predictions.  Looking at going two for two real soon...

[Bob Long]

All PA has to do is elect to take Linus Karlsson to arbitration (very low risk move), and that opens up a buyout window in August. Mik will be bought out if we need to be cap compliant and we can't move him without adding significant assets .

[The Duke]

4 hours ago, Viking said:

It is still a terrible contract given out by the current GM, they make mistakes and this signing is a big one

Yeah.  
 

Plus, Mikheyev has never been anywhere near old Loui’s level.  He’s always been banged up and about a .5 ppg player. Sure, we could use the size and PK but they paid the sticker price for a career lemon middle 6er. 
 

Eriksson wasn’t a burner by any stretch but he was also a strong two way guy, and coming off missing one game in 2 seasons with a 55 point per 82 average.  Then he arrives and falls off a cliff, never cracking 30 points. The contract was always going to age poorly, but there should have been some bright spots especially early on. 
 

Mikheyev’s durability and production is basically what he has always been, just a little slower with the knee injury.  
 

 Eriksson is “worse” but most of his tenure was going to suck anyways - the team was brutal. And if Benning didn’t force the OEL trade he could have aged out as a comical punching bag for a dark era.. with little competitive harm done. 
 

Mikheyev was signed by a management team griping about the cap situation - eyes wide open.  They knew every penny counted and wanted to push for playoffs.  Was always a weird signing for a group that’s otherwise razor sharp.
 

The story isn’t done, but he could very well cost a significant price to offload if that’s the way we go.  Or, maybe he rebounds with a healed up knee and proves me wrong. Or, we find a way to trade him (Kotkaniemi?) without biting a huge bullet.  The future is yet to be written, but I think it’s a solid comparable from two otherwise polar opposite management groups.

[AussieCanuckinUK]

still trying to get over the sting of OEL, ffs..and he is still in the playoffs ..frack...

Toccy needs to make it work with him or they trade him no $$$$ retention

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, AussieCanuckinUK said:

still trying to get over the sting of OEL, ffs..and he is still in the playoffs ..frack...

Toccy needs to make it work with him or they trade him no $$$$ retention

 

If we're a better team next season, we're a legit contender. I really don't care how its done, if we over pay player "x", or overpay via buyout, whatever. No team has a perfect cap mix.

 

[AussieCanuckinUK]

26 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

If we're a better team next season, we're a legit contender. I really don't care how its done, if we over pay player "x", or overpay via buyout, whatever. No team has a perfect cap mix.

 

Well that will be BIG question this off season, just what tricks does PA & JR have up their sleeve, in order to make or keep this club competitive...personally I just don't want any more dead cap space going to players who just couldn't make it work here...

[Artemus]

On 5/27/2024 at 1:25 PM, Bob Long said:

All PA has to do is elect to take Linus Karlsson to arbitration (very low risk move), and that opens up a buyout window in August. Mik will be bought out if we need to be cap compliant and we can't move him without adding significant assets .

 

 

This is actually a clever thought. An example of thinking outside the box. Never heard of this being proposed before.

A second buyout window in August would give PA some time to set the roster without committing earlier in June to a buyout of Mikhayev.

 

Though you are assuming that Linus Karlsson doesn't just accept his "Qualifying Offer".

The "Arbitration" process is reported to be adversarial and quite unpleasant.

 

Did a little research on this topic.

If the team does not give a "Qualifying Offer" to LK but elects to take him directly to arbitration, then the team would need to take two players to "Team Elected Arbitration" in order to open the second buyout window in August. 

Still a doable manoeuvre as we have several RFA's on the farm.

 

 

 

[cripplereh]

I think like I n another thread this might happen

 

Give Hronek an 8 year deal then trade him

 

Hronek and Mik plus rights to Lindy to Car.

 

For 

 

Kok and Necas and rights to Pesce

 

Both teams get something they need.

[Plaguez]

On 5/27/2024 at 12:36 PM, HKSR said:

As @Alflives eluded to above, OEL was playing more at the level of an Ian Cole when we had to try to do something with him.  He was playing like a $3M defenceman.  We would have had to retain $4.26M on him for 4 years to make him a viable trade option.  We wouldn't have seen any real cap advantage until years 3 and 4 when the buyout cap hits are above the retention amount.

 

Mikheyev, on the other hand, is playing like a $3.5M forward.  So retaining the $1.25 to $1.5M makes a lot more sense.

Can't recall any forward scoring 1 goal in 60 games with top 6 minutes being valued at 3.5mil by anyone.  He was actually producing like a #13-14 forward.  Need to hope to hell he starts next year hot then trade him immediately for futures

[RWJC]

Could a reunion with Kyle Dubas in Pittsburgh be the best option for Ilya Mikheyev?

 

By Stephan Roget

1 day ago
 

Folks, there has been an awful lot of discussion surrounding one Ilya Mikheyev in the early goings of the 2024 offseason. And, as you can plainly see from the headline above, we’ve got more on the way.

 

But much of the initial chatter has been around general solutions toward Mikheyev and the discrepancy between his performance and salary. There’s been talk of a buyout, of  a trade with retention, or perhaps an unretained trade with some sort of sweetener attached.

 

But what has perhaps been missing in all this is a discussion of specific solutions. Buyouts are a one-party endeavour. But any trade would require a trade partner, and that obviously requires some level of selection from the 31 options available.

 

Fortunately, we think we’ve narrowed down one trade target for Mikheyev in particular, and it’s even more specific than the name of another NHL franchise. It’s the name of a person. And that person is Kyle Dubas.

 

Though many still automatically associate him with the Toronto Maple Leafs, Dubas has been in charge of the Pittsburgh Penguins since last summer. As a general manager, Dubas is known for a few traits, and one of those traits is loyalty to players he’s had in his system before.

 

Dubas famously grew up in the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds organization. His father worked for the team, and before that his grandfather coached it. Dubas became a scout for the Greyhounds in 2002 at the age of 17, and took over as their GM in 2011.

 

By 2014, Dubas was the Assistant General Manager for the Maple Leafs, and by 2015 he’d be the GM, and he’d stay in that role in 2023.

 

During that time, Dubas became notorious for bringing ex-Greyhounds to Toronto. He hired Sheldon Keefe to coach the Marlies and then the Maple Leafs, after having previously hired Keefe in the Sault. Several other coaches followed.

 

Ex-Greyhound players brought in by Dubas included Rasmus Sandin, Jake Muzzin, Jack Campbell, Wayne Simmonds, Michael Bunting, Nick Ritchie, and Matt Murray.

 

Which is all good evidence that Dubas likes his retreads. It’s also good evidence that the retreads in question don’t necessarily need to be of a high quality.

 

Since taking over the Penguins, Dubas has only had a year to work with, but even in that limited time he’s brought in some former charges. He signed Noel Acciari in the summer, someone he’d acquired in Toronto at the previous deadline. And then at the 2024 Trade Deadline, Dubas traded for Bunting again as part of the Jake Guentzel deal.

 

This marked the third time Dubas had acquired Bunting; once through the OHL draft, once through free agency in Toronto, and once through trade in Pittsburgh.

 

Let’s zoom in on Bunting for a second. In the 2023 offseason, he’d left a suddenly Dubas-less Toronto to sign a three-year, $4.5 million AAV contract with the Carolina Hurricanes. And then he immediately turned in the worst season of his career, posting 13 goals and 36 points through 60 games.

Dubas didn’t seem to care. He traded for Bunting (and his two full remaining contract years) all the same, and was rewarded for his loyalty. Bunting went on to post 19 points in 21 games for the Penguins post-deadline.

 

By now, those without a working knowledge of Kyle Dubas’ transaction history might be wondering what this all has to do with Ilya Mikheyev. We’re getting to that now.

 

Mikheyev went undrafted in the NHL Entry Draft, and began a career back in Russia, coming up through the Avangard Omsk organization. He developed well enough in that league, but never posted any truly eye-popping numbers, topping out at 23 goals and 45 points through 62 games at the age of 24 in 2018/19.

 

Then Dubas came calling. The then-Maple Leafs GM scouted Mikheyev, courted him, and then signed him to a one-year ELC in May of 2019.

Dubas brought Mikheyev in right away, and Mikheyev impressed in his rookie campaign, notching 23 points in just 39 games. Dubas rewarded Mikheyev with a two-year extension at a $1.645 million average despite the limited experience, and Mikheyev rewarded Dubas in turn with two years of strong performance, hampered only by injury.

 

Mikheyev would pot 21 goals and 32 points in 53 games in the 2021/22 season, and then add four more points in seven playoff games.

 

Then, in the summer of 2022, he left for the greener pastures of Vancouver and a four-year, $4.75 million AAV contract via free agency.

 

Now, he’s on the market again. All of which leads us to our overall point here, which is that if there’s anyone out there itching to acquire Mikheyev, it’s probably Dubas, the GM who both loves his retreads and who first showed real interest in Mikheyev.

 

Dubas’ Penguins are a team in an interesting place. They’re still built around the 36-year-old Sidney Crosby and the 37-year-old Evgeni Malkin up front, but their collection of wingers leaves an awful lot to be desired, especially after having traded Guentzel.

 

Bryan Rust and the aforementioned Bunting are probably the best they’ve got. Beyond them, it’s a collection of heavy question marks in the form of Rickard Rakell, Reilly Smith, Drew O’Connor, and Jesse Puljujarvi.

 

The Penguins are at the point where most franchises would enter a rebuild. But they simply cannot, not until Crosby and the Gang have moved on to retirement. So, Dubas and Co. will still be doing their best to compete over the next couple of years, and they’ll be bringing in veterans to do so.

 

Enter: Mikheyev.

 

If there’s one thing that collection of wingers above is lacking, it’s speed. That’s a downright plodding collection of wingers.

 

What is Mikheyev’s number one trait? Prior to ACL surgery, it was speed. And perhaps after a full offseason of recovery, it will be speed again.

 

Dubas and the Penguins aren’t exactly flush with cap space, but they’re not too short on it, either. As of this writing, they’ve got 10 forwards, five defenders, and a goalie signed for about $74.7 million, leaving them a little more than $12 million to fill out about seven more players.

 

The Penguins could always choose to supplement their roster through other means, like free agency. But it’s often hard to bring someone in via free agency without giving them excessive term, as the Canucks discovered with Mikheyev in the first place. Perhaps to Dubas, the fact that Mikheyev only has two years left on his deal is seen as an asset, as that’s about the amount of time we can expect Crosby and Malkin to keep playing.

 

After that, it’s rebuild time, and having the vets out of the way is a good thing.

 

So, to recap: Mikheyev is a Dubas retread, he offers the position and skillset that Dubas needs most this offseason, and he’s available for extremely cheap – probably outright free, if Dubas is willing to take on his full salary.

 

Alternately, retention could take place, and at that point, maybe we’re talking about receiving an actual return from Pittsburgh in exchange.

 

Either way, this looks like the best route through which to find Mikheyev a new home this summer. As such, we’d expect Patrik Allvin to be placing a call to Dubas in the very near future…that is, if Dubas hasn’t already called himself, once again on the hunt for another of the ones who got away.

 

 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/why-trading-ilya-mikheyev-better-option-buying-out-canucks-conversation

[RWJC]

After a poor first season with the Pittsburgh Penguins, Ryan Graves became a lightning rod for criticism from fans of the team. Dan Kingerski writes that the Pittsburgh Penguins would be best to avoid buying out the remaining five years of the contract which would lead to an annual cost of $750K for the next ten years. Penguins’ general manager Kyle Dubas has stated in the past that he prefers trades to buyouts and given the season that Graves just had it would be nearly impossible to find a trade partner unless the Penguins agree to take back a bad contract. The Penguins have a need for a top-6 forward as well as some depth scoring on their bottom two lines and have just under $13MM in available cap space. Moving Graves would go a long way to opening up the room to maneuver, but given the circumstances, it seems likely that he will be with the team next season.

 

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2024/06/evening-notes-myers-graves-alfredsson.html#ref=home

 

RYAN GRAVES #27

Pittsburgh Penguins

82

P2

Left Defense

Cap Hit: $4,500,000

Daily Cap Hit: 24.2K

Accumulated Daily Cap Hit  : 0

Remaining Daily Cap Hit  : 4.50M

 

BORN: May 21, 1995

AGE: 29

BIRTHPLACE: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

NATIONALITY: Canada

SHOOTS: Left

HEIGHT: 

6'5"

196cm

WEIGHT: 

220 lbs

100kg
 

Ryan Graves' salary is $5,500,000 and his cap hit is $4,500,000 for the 2024-25 season. His salary is comprised of $2,000,000 in signing bonuses and $3,500,000 in base salary. He is a 29 year old defense who was born on May 21, 1995. He was drafted 110th overall by the New York Rangers in the 4th round of the 2013 entry draft. He has signed 5 contracts worth a total value of $40,425,000. Over a career that spans 6 seasons (with at least 1 NHL GP), he has a total 114 Pts in 372 GP, and 10 playoffs Pts in 35 GP. He will be a UFA at the end of the 2028-29 season when he is 34 years old.

 

//

 

Graves has an M-NTC for each of his remaining 5 years on his contract. 
 

Not sure we’d consider moving Mik for him but if we run out of D options in UFA or trade, I wonder if there’s something that could be worked out between the two clubs. Big risk taking him on though and not a necessary move considering we have two solid prospects hopefully on their way in a couple years.

 

 

Edited June 3 by RWJC

[Provost]

On 5/26/2024 at 1:31 PM, Hammertime said:

Demko has another 2 years. I think you need to give Silovs the backp job and if he steals the starting role from Demko then you look to move Demko next offseason the way Swayman has taken the role on Bos. 

 

Moving Demko now would be foolish. It's not like Silovs was a world beater in the AHL this year. 

 

 

Do you remember that great run from Spencer Martin that got him re signed? And how he did afterwards. Lets see how Silovs does next year in the NHL now that teams have been feverishly writing a book on him. 

Ya, folks don’t really seem to realize he rare it is for a goalie to be consistently good in this league.  Most guys are up and down with their play.

 

We have a Vezina calibre goalie who has proven to be a high end starter.  Silovs had a few solid games.

 

If anything I trade Silovs while his stock is at its highest and re-sign DeSmith who is a fine backup.

 

A team like Ottawa badly needs a goalie and if you can get a cap controlled top 4 D like Zub (who was on the trade block at the deadline) in return, you are in a much better position.

 

A Zadorov-Zub Russian pairing would be  really interesting.  Zub plays Pk