[Specualtion] Canucks considering buying out Mikheyev contract

[HarbularyBattery]

17 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I would never complain about our team play. Our team structure or what Tocchet helped create here. But I do believe we had passenger's, Tocchet alluded to as much two games ago.

There were obvious fixes l, for me, that involved being more physical. 

Saying they 'over achieved' imo is selling them short. 

They lost.

7th game of a tough series isn't over achieving.  But they did lose. 

i agree, team did not over achieve. people simply dont realize the extent of the revamp that was done on the blue line & coaching

[ArtyParty]

7 minutes ago, HarbularyBattery said:

i interpreted his comments as he paid mikheyev like a top6 winger, so the expectations were his fault

 

despite that, his offensive production was still bad even for a third liner. if he produced like joshua or garland, nobody would be complaining. 

Agreed, not saying Mik doesn't deserve criticism.

[Elias Pettersson]

16 hours ago, IBatch said:

What do you speculate the cost would be to trade him?   Beau's cost was nothing at all.    
 

EP needs a wingman that's for sure.   Lindholm or Guenztal ... which one would you prefer?    And is there some way, we could have both... 

 

Hronek traded.    That's an option.    But Allvin says he would like to see him running his own pairing.   So that's unlikely.  

 

Think Guentzal is their target.   Analytics suggest he's the second best UFA on the market, and will command 9.25 x 7.    Not sure if that's a Canadian market price either.    I'm sure he'd like to play on a winning team,  we are on of those winning teams, that can make the space.     CAR already is working on trying to sign him.    They are a contender.    He gelled with them too.  If we can't get him,  Reinhart, Stamkos,  then a drop off, Pavelski (age is catching up), Lindholm, Bertuzzi (was underwhelming in TO) Toffoli, Duchene, Tarasenko... 

 

Rhino and Stamkos likely won't make it to the  market.    Talks already on for them.     Toffoli isn't a forechecking type,  which is something of a must under Tochetts system and especially for EP,  needs a mucker.     Although Toffoli with EP and Lindholm sure could work. 

 

Bluegar can always be re-signed with Joshua to keep that line going.    One things for sure,  i'm pretty sure we won't see Mikheyev on the opening night roster, if we find EP a medium to long term wingman.    Guentzal is a luxury i've got no idea how we'd be able to jam in.   And if money's an issue (which it almost always is),  Vancouver's offer would have to be a lot higher then CAR's...they are close to no state tax ... we'd have to offer 1.5ish more then them for the net pay to be the same.  9.25 x 7 is considered fair. 

 

 

 

 

To trade Mikheyev at his current cap hit for two more years will cost us our 2025 1st round pick.  So that is not happening.  Beauvillier was a pending UFA, so big difference.  Also, if you recall they had a couple guys hurt and the whole Corey Perry fiasco, so it was a perfect storm to trade him to Chicago without having to add a sweetener.

 

I would prefer Guentzel as he is a natural left winger, so Petey can play centre,  However, his ask will be north of $9 million, so we really can't afford him if we plan to re-sign Big Z and a few others.  Not even sure we have the money to re-sign Lindholm unless we make a trade.  If we buy out Mikheyev and trade Hronek then we should have enough money to re-sign most of our guys including Lindholm.  Lindholm I think is needed as we don't have a 3C on the team, Blueger if re-signed is better suited as our 4C.

 

IMO, the only way to get a true top 6 forward for Petey is via a trade.  The UFA options aren't ideal.  So I would trade Hronek to accomplish that.  Replacing Hronek would actually be easier as there are several UFA options out there as well as some guys who are potentially on the trade market.  Chris Tanev, Matt Roy and Artem Zub would be the 3 guys I would go after.  They aren't really PMDmen, however, IMO Hughes would be better suited with a more defensive guy as his partner and we can sign a puck mover as a UFA to play on the second pairing.  Alexandre Carrier from Nashville would be a good choice.  I'd even look at Justin Shultz, who is a UFA and played for Allvin and JR in Pittsburgh when they won their cups...

[Hairy Kneel]

35 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

To trade Mikheyev at his current cap hit for two more years will cost us our 2025 1st round pick.  So that is not happening.  Beauvillier was a pending UFA, so big difference.  Also, if you recall they had a couple guys hurt and the whole Corey Perry fiasco, so it was a perfect storm to trade him to Chicago without having to add a sweetener.

 

I would prefer Guentzel as he is a natural left winger, so Petey can play centre,  However, his ask will be north of $9 million, so we really can't afford him if we plan to re-sign Big Z and a few others.  Not even sure we have the money to re-sign Lindholm unless we make a trade.  If we buy out Mikheyev and trade Hronek then we should have enough money to re-sign most of our guys including Lindholm.  Lindholm I think is needed as we don't have a 3C on the team, Blueger if re-signed is better suited as our 4C.

 

IMO, the only way to get a true top 6 forward for Petey is via a trade.  The UFA options aren't ideal.  So I would trade Hronek to accomplish that.  Replacing Hronek would actually be easier as there are several UFA options out there as well as some guys who are potentially on the trade market.  Chris Tanev, Matt Roy and Artem Zub would be the 3 guys I would go after.  They aren't really PMDmen, however, IMO Hughes would be better suited with a more defensive guy as his partner and we can sign a puck mover as a UFA to play on the second pairing.  Alexandre Carrier from Nashville would be a good choice.  I'd even look at Justin Shultz, who is a UFA and played for Allvin and JR in Pittsburgh when they won their cups...

I think Mik is a viable NHL 3rd line defensive forward.  With scoring upside. I think a 1st is way too much. I think a 3rd and a prospect Woo, Brisboise and retain 1M could get him moved.

[Hairy Kneel]

1 hour ago, HarbularyBattery said:

i agree, team did not over achieve. people simply dont realize the extent of the revamp that was done on the blue line & coaching

We added the one thing we've been sorely missing.  Team toughness. We could actually use a bit more toughness on our 4th line. And possibly a snarly middle 6 winger.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I think Mik is a viable NHL 3rd line defensive forward.  With scoring upside. I think a 1st is way too much. I think a 3rd and a prospect Woo, Brisboise and retain 1M could get him moved.

 

Sure, I agree.  Those types of guys are getting paid $2.2.5 million.  If you want to trade Mikheyev with no sweeteners, then you have to retain almost $2.5 million per for two years.  Which is why the buyout makes more sense at this point.

[Hairy Kneel]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Sure, I agree.  Those types of guys are getting paid $2.2.5 million.  If you want to trade Mikheyev with no sweeteners, then you have to retain almost $2.5 million per for two years.  Which is why the buyout makes more sense at this point.

I think if we have extra defenseman in Abby we should use one of them to ease the pain.

[Elias Pettersson]

14 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I think if we have extra defenseman in Abby we should use one of them to ease the pain.

The only Dmen with value right now are D-Petey and Willander. Neither one is getting traded. 

[Hairy Kneel]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

The only Dmen with value right now are D-Petey and Willander. Neither one is getting traded. 

Not top draft picks but utility guys like Woo or Brisboise, or a comparable forward process. Your 1st idea is way too high.

[Elias Pettersson]

38 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Not top draft picks but utility guys like Woo or Brisboise, or a comparable forward process. Your 1st idea is way too high.

Both those dmen will be put on waivers next year after preseason. So they would be available for free. Pretty sure Woo cleared waivers last year. 

Edited May 25 by Elias Pettersson

[GrammaInTheTub]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Sure, I agree.  Those types of guys are getting paid $2.2.5 million.  If you want to trade Mikheyev with no sweeteners, then you have to retain almost $2.5 million per for two years.  Which is why the buyout makes more sense at this point.

People here seem willing to pay Joshua $3M~ for what will be a middle 6 role and Garland is still on the books for $4.95M as a component of our league best third line (middle 6).

 

Mikheyev will find a new home and we won’t have to provide much beyond $1.5M retention (WORST CASE) or a full trade out with some sugar on top and no retention (MORE LIKELY). There will be no buyout. 
 

Did he slow down? Yes. Did he put up 31 points coming off injury and then playing with an injured Petey? Yes. Can he do better and other teams will see that? Yes. 

Edited May 25 by GrammaInTheTub
Rethink

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

To trade Mikheyev at his current cap hit for two more years will cost us our 2025 1st round pick.  So that is not happening.  Beauvillier was a pending UFA, so big difference.  Also, if you recall they had a couple guys hurt and the whole Corey Perry fiasco, so it was a perfect storm to trade him to Chicago without having to add a sweetener.

 

I would prefer Guentzel as he is a natural left winger, so Petey can play centre,  However, his ask will be north of $9 million, so we really can't afford him if we plan to re-sign Big Z and a few others.  Not even sure we have the money to re-sign Lindholm unless we make a trade.  If we buy out Mikheyev and trade Hronek then we should have enough money to re-sign most of our guys including Lindholm.  Lindholm I think is needed as we don't have a 3C on the team, Blueger if re-signed is better suited as our 4C.

 

IMO, the only way to get a true top 6 forward for Petey is via a trade.  The UFA options aren't ideal.  So I would trade Hronek to accomplish that.  Replacing Hronek would actually be easier as there are several UFA options out there as well as some guys who are potentially on the trade market.  Chris Tanev, Matt Roy and Artem Zub would be the 3 guys I would go after.  They aren't really PMDmen, however, IMO Hughes would be better suited with a more defensive guy as his partner and we can sign a puck mover as a UFA to play on the second pairing.  Alexandre Carrier from Nashville would be a good choice.  I'd even look at Justin Shultz, who is a UFA and played for Allvin and JR in Pittsburgh when they won their cups...

Maybe.   The cost to do business to trade guys like Beau, Stillman,  and Dickinson, have been a lot lighter then some thought.    Buying out Mikheyev could be the only viable option cost wise, that said maybe Hogs or Podz could be used  to lighten the load, and a little bit of retention, which then wouldn't be over four years, just two, and maybe a way to do it with no retention that doesn't break the bank/opportunity costs later.     Allvin has shocked me with some of his deals. "not realistic", and would get flamed for suggesting that's all it takes to acquire.   Zadarov wow.  Nice. 

 

That could allow the team to sign ALL other guys (won't get into that, think @HKSR and others have it all done on a spreadsheet,  Mikheyev goes without retention, all the guys are re-signed, except Cole, Juulsen slots in).

 

    We have the cap space.    Myers and cap going up helps quite a bit.   With moving Ilya Mikheyev.     

 

Teams close.   Needs a partner for EP.  

 

As for Bluegar, he did just fine as our 3rd C, Lindholm is obviously not a 3rd C, he's a legit top six guy.    We won't have the luxury to have it all, and do need to replace Mikheyev, on EPs line and add another DJ type instead - with Lindholm it could work.   Later, when  Lekkermaki gets his turn in the top six, if that works out then Lindholm could slide down, or even just stay.    EP can move to the wing, probably better for his wrist too. 
 

Geuntzal, to me he's a luxury we can't afford.   The 10 plus it likely will cost to land him in a Canadian market ... that's pretty steep  for maybe 4 years of blue chip production and then a decline.   9.25 is still a ton of dough.    That's Lindholm and Joshua and some of Bleugar, 10.7 is the same as 9.25 in CAR. 

 

Tanev likes Dallas.   He's in his mid 30's, buyer beware.    For some reason he's been able to stay healthier than usual.    Tochett would love him for sure.     Roy would be fine.   He's going to the highest bidder.   So around 6 x 5.     Pesce more than Hronek on a bridge.  6.5 x 5.       Tanev is the cheapest, Dallas wants to keep him and he likes it there think that boat has sailed.   No state tax. 

 

The difference between an arbitration award or a bridge isn't much different than Roy, with the exception of 1-3 years of stability.    Tough one, UFAs usually stay with their home club or go to the highest bidder.    

 

Point is, we aren't saving much of any money with the other free agents that are worth considering.     Zadarov had some minutes with QHs,  have some suspicions, that he's going to move to the right side, Hronek drop down (as Allvin said, would like to see him run his own line).     
 

Of all the guys, Zadarov is the only one we simply have to sign.    If we don't, will be seriously disappointed with this club.    After that Lindholm or Guentzal.   Not sure Guentzal will even be available the way CAR is going on about signing him,  maybe he's waiting to see what we can do.    9.25, we'd need to offer 10.7 to par that CAR offer money wise.    That's quite a commitment. 

 

So realistically, it's going to be Lindholm.   6.7 x 5 is palatable.    He's proven he's a top six RHC.    Certainly did this post season.   After Joshua, he was also the guy smashing (hitting) the most in our forward group and had some monster games in the dot and on the scoreboard as well.     Just move EP to the wing and find them a big mucker, board guy. 

 

Bluegar was fine as a 3C.    That line was one of the best 3rd lines in the league.   And cheap, his predicted cap hit,  2 x 2ish.    So barely a raise.   Re-sign Joshua.   3.25 x 4 is a great deal for him and the club.    

 

Overpaying to find EP a wingman doesn't sit well with me, even though i'd love to have Guentzal on the team. 

 

We won't replace or upgrade Hronek's cap hit much if at all trying to find another RHD, if we bridge or go to arbitration or qualify him.    Maybe save a little on Tanev, not on Roy or Pesce.    

 

 Trading Hronek for a young guy with upside to play with EP is a great option.   If we can nab one of these RHD's.   It's sure great that the team doesn't have to worry about losing Hronek for nothing.   Can try the trade route.    

 

Think Lekkerimäki is the idea for EP,  so could see them trying another middle six guy.   Bertuzzi wouldn't be terrible, same with Domi or even Toffoli (although for sure need a banger) and i'm not a big Toffoli fan given his aversion to contact, but he can shoot the puck and is very  sneaky.   

 

Lindholm makes a lot of sense too. 

 

Myers  3 x 2 is doable,  Cole's money.  

 

 

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The only Dmen with value right now are D-Petey and Willander. Neither one is getting traded. 

Yep.   The other guys are part of our depth.    Brisbois proved he's a reliable injury option under Tochett, bad luck last year for him, it also turned out we didn't need him or Irwin.   

 

The team took a big step last season.   

 

Hronek is a mystery still.   Was against the 8 x 8 idea from the start,  because those types of deals are reserved for blue chip stars or guys coming off their ELC's that proved a lot and have the pedigree.    

 

IF we can nab one of the other available RHD's to fill out our top four, then we can consider trading Hronek.

 

What's he going to get us?   Who needs a RHD and what would be a fair return.    To me it likely will be similar to what we got for Horvat.   A first and a third and a middle six player back to make cap work, or bottom pairing D to make cap work.     

 

Edited May 25 by IBatch

[Alflives]

21 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yep.   The other guys are part of our depth.    Brisbois proved he's a reliable injury option under Tochett, bad luck last year for him, it also turned out we didn't need him or Irwin.   

 

The team took a big step last season.   

 

Hronek is a mystery still.   Was against the 8 x 8 idea from the start,  because those types of deals are reserved for blue chip stars or guys coming off their ELC's that proved a lot and have the pedigree.    

 

IF we can nab one of the other available RHD's to fill out our top four, then we can consider trading Hronek.

 

What's he going to get us?   Who needs a RHD and what would be a fair return.    To me it likely will be similar to what we got for Horvat.   A first and a third and a middle six player back to make cap work, or bottom pairing D to make cap work.     

 

Buffalo really screwed over the D market by giving Dahlin 11+ over 8 years. Guys like Hronek are better players than that puck sucker. 

[Kage17]

A buyout only costs 1.1, 2.1, 1.5, 1.5 so there will be little to no retention on any possible trade.

 

A buyout is actually a very real possibility as it would not be worth giving up anything of real value ie 1st, 2nd or higher end prospect just to save a million ish for 3/4 years.

 

 

[Alflives]

24 minutes ago, Kage17 said:

A buyout only costs 1.1, 2.1, 1.5, 1.5 so there will be little to no retention on any possible trade.

 

A buyout is actually a very real possibility as it would not be worth giving up anything of real value ie 1st, 2nd or higher end prospect just to save a million ish for 3/4 years.

 

 

That’s it to buyout Mik? There is the rumoured trade Mik for Kotkaniemi though. 

[Hairy Kneel]

10 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Both those dmen will be put on waivers next year after preseason. So they would be available for free. Pretty sure Woo cleared waivers last year. 

Well Brisboise then

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, Kage17 said:

A buyout only costs 1.1, 2.1, 1.5, 1.5 so there will be little to no retention on any possible trade.

 

A buyout is actually a very real possibility as it would not be worth giving up anything of real value ie 1st, 2nd or higher end prospect just to save a million ish for 3/4 years.

 

 

I agree. We won’t be giving up any sweeteners to get rid of Mikheyev. We need all of our remaining picks and prospects for the 2025 trade deadline. We probably will be doing another Lindholm type deal next year to push us over the top to try and win the cup. 

[Elias Pettersson]

24 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Well Brisboise then

Brisebois barely played this year. He will easily clear waivers next season. 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

That’s it to buyout Mik? There is the rumoured trade Mik for Kotkaniemi though. 

I hear KK is being bought out. If so we could sign him for free on a cheap prove me deal. 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Yep.   The other guys are part of our depth.    Brisbois proved he's a reliable injury option under Tochett, bad luck last year for him, it also turned out we didn't need him or Irwin.   

 

The team took a big step last season.   

 

Hronek is a mystery still.   Was against the 8 x 8 idea from the start,  because those types of deals are reserved for blue chip stars or guys coming off their ELC's that proved a lot and have the pedigree.    

 

IF we can nab one of the other available RHD's to fill out our top four, then we can consider trading Hronek.

 

What's he going to get us?   Who needs a RHD and what would be a fair return.    To me it likely will be similar to what we got for Horvat.   A first and a third and a middle six player back to make cap work, or bottom pairing D to make cap work.     

 

Artem Zub is the dream. Trade Hronek for assets and flip those assets to Ottawa for Zub. Just like the Horvat trade. Apparently Ottawa is listening to offers for Zub. 
 

Hughes         Zub

Zadorov        Willander 

Pettersson   Juulsen 

 

This is it. That’s the future right there. We are good for 6-7 years. 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I hear KK is being bought out. If so we could sign him for free on a cheap prove me deal. 

Good point. I guess PA would see the total cost of buying out Mik and then signing JK and if that worked out less (in yearly cap allocation) than just trading Mik for JK.
1.5 Mik + 3.5 JK. Maybe it’s a wash regardless of trade or buyouts? 

[Hairy Kneel]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Brisebois barely played this year. He will easily clear waivers next season. 

I doubt it

A healthy Brisboise was our 7th dman last year. I think he'll be a leader in Abby

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I doubt it

A healthy Brisboise was our 7th dman last year. I think he'll be a leader in Abby

Isn’t Brisbois only about 170 pounds? IMHAO he’s too light to be one of our bottom 4 D. JR/PA and the coaches prefer heavy bodies in those spots. 

[RWJC]

9 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Artem Zub is the dream. Trade Hronek for assets and flip those assets to Ottawa for Zub. Just like the Horvat trade. Apparently Ottawa is listening to offers for Zub. 
 

Hughes         Zub

Zadorov        Willander 

Pettersson   Juulsen 

 

This is it. That’s the future right there. We are good for 6-7 years. 

You’re not talking this beginning next season though? 25-26 or 26-27?