2023-24 Canucks Injury Thread

[Guntrix]

He had many opportunities to rest/rehab and didn’t. 
 

I don’t understand for the life of me why players nowadays can’t just admit they let the team down instead of blaming their performance on some nonexistent injury.

[syntheticity]

Lots of hasty assumptions being made about how Petey's injury should have been handled. More people need to read this explanation by someone who's actually treated tendinitis in athletes:

 

On 5/23/2024 at 9:09 PM, MeanSeanBean said:

Inflammation of a tendon can take a very long time to calm down to the point of being asymptomatic. There plenty of modalities we use, like frictions, dry needling, and shockwave that can be incredibly effective at treating it, but the number one thing is rest. But shutting a guy down for minor tendinitis would be absurd. Like, unheard of absurd. The problem is, if it progresses it would take multiple weeks, maybe months do fully heal. It's likely they are banking on Petey being able to take 4-6 weeks off skating in the summer paired with treatment to help it calm down.

 

If it didn't progress till say March, then any clinician would know there wouldn't be enough time to rest it before playoffs. And shutting him down for a minor tendinitis in January or February would have been ridiculous. You'd be better off pushing through and helping muscle stability was enough to avoid it become acute. 

 

Edited May 25 by syntheticity

[MeanSeanBean]

41 minutes ago, syntheticity said:

Lots of hasty assumptions being made about how Petey's injury should have been handled. More people need to read this explanation by someone who's actually treated tendinitis in athletes:

 

 

It's the internet. Everyone believes what they want. All I know is from someone who works on my side of the table and actually deals with sports rehabilitation both the way it played out and how it was handled makes a ton of sense, based off the limited information we were given. But tons of armchair clinicians seem to disagree.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

1 minute ago, MeanSeanBean said:

It's the internet. Everyone believes what they want. All I know is from someone who works on my side of the table and actually deals with sports rehabilitation both the way it played out and how it was handled makes a ton of sense, based off the limited information we were given. But tons of armchair clinicians seem to disagree.

 

What I'd really like to know (and maybe @-AJ- might know the answer) is why the team injury thread got merged into this misspelled EP40 injury thread (and not the other way around).  

[MeanSeanBean]

1 minute ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

What I'd really like to know (and maybe @-AJ- might know the answer) is why the team injury thread got merged into this misspelled EP40 injury thread (and not the other way around).  

Lol yeah, the fucks that all about. AJ must have been playing injuird at the time they made that decision.

Edited May 25 by MeanSeanBean

[Jess]

4 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

What I'd really like to know (and maybe @-AJ- might know the answer) is why the team injury thread got merged into this misspelled EP40 injury thread (and not the other way around).  

 

I do a lot of merges, but this one wasn't me 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

2 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

 

I do a lot of merges, but this one wasn't me 

 

Thanks - I wasn't saying you did it, just that with your supermod powers maybe you might know who did (and maybe even ask them kindly to reverse the merge - wishful thinking, I know ). 

[elvis15]

Geez, yeah. Terrible way to merge the threads.

[Jess]

14 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Thanks - I wasn't saying you did it, just that with your supermod powers maybe you might know who did (and maybe even ask them kindly to reverse the merge - wishful thinking, I know ). 

 

Alas, I don't believe merges can be reversed.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

Just now, -AJ- said:

 

Alas, I don't believe merges can be reversed.

 

 

Maybe a re-naming of the thread then...?  Unless we're going to pin all the other injuries that the team had on EP40's post-January 2024 performance. 

[syntheticity]

27 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

 

Maybe a re-naming of the thread then...?  Unless we're going to pin all the other injuries that the team had on EP40's post-January 2024 performance. 

 

Probably happens regardless

[Poler]

I feel like he did have tendinitis and at the start cause he was on contract year and it was only minor pain in January he was ignoring it. I guess that’s why he wanted to get the deal done now because it was starting to get more painful and effecting his play. 
 

I had tennis elbow before from work and let me tell you I couldn’t lift anything with my left arm for a while it was so painful. 
 

By the time it was so painful he could only play at 50% with a team mate who has no finish. He lost his accuracy and power on his shot. It was also too late to take any rest to heal it would take a few months. Management would rather have Petey at 50% with playmaking than nothing. 

[kilgore]

19 hours ago, Steamer4GM said:

My guess (and that's all it is - just like most of the EP related posts in this thread) is that Toc has never had this kind of tendonitis and so is dismissively minimizing it because he's had something similar that didn't impact him as much as Petey's has impacted him.

 

Only reason I suspect this is because I have severe tendonopathy of the elbow at the insertion point of the bicep and it has literally fucked my upper body fitness pursuits for the past year and half plus. Granted, I'm in my late 50's so healing / recovery are slower but I can 100% tell you that, at it's peak pain point, I couldn't even take a jug of milk out of the fridge without using my left hand to support the bottom of the jug. And that was about 3-4 months after first symptoms and lasted for about 3 months before the benefits of complete rest started to kick in and the pain began to very slowly subside.

 

So, as much as I trust, value and respect Toc (I started his Jack Adams congrats thread ffs), I say he's full of shit and it's a dick move to minimize a team member's injury publicly or privately unless you've been through it yourself. Not to mention the optics of the entire thing casts the entire management and Petey in a negative light as not being on the same page and putting out a mixed message. Not cool

 

Well said

Tocchet has been dismissive before with injuries.  ".....insert player here..... is day to day"  Which turns into week to week, or even month to month

 

I could entertain the idea of a condition like "mild tendinitis" not stopping a player from playing through it.   But this clearly wasn't just a mild case.  Because of one thing. Petey said it was getting more and more painful as the season went on, until presumably, it was at its worst in the playoffs.  So my understanding of the term "plays through the injury" to mean that the injury is such that it may heal faster if you sit, but it will still heal, just more slowly, if you continue to play. At the very least it wont get worse.  But it clearly was not healing if it was getting more painful.  So at that point, how does the medical team not step in. Who knows, maybe its Tocchet underestimating the problem and Petey feeling obligated to keep playing despite the discomfort.  Maybe its Petey not telling  anyone it was getting worse.  Maybe it was the medical staff not being concerned enough.  But either way, my only concern is that it was getting more and more painful....so how does that compute with following the protocol of playing through it, and pretend it was not getting worse?

 

Base on history of this team's medical decisions, i am just hoping that we wil not now hear that the knee was scoped and it turns out it was something more serious, even dare I say surgery required, which would affect his Summer training and the who knows what Petey we can expect at training camp.  Big loud knock on wood when I wrote that.

[Gnarcore]

20 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

Collarbone? Just a guess, I hip checked a Finn player once playing in Israel (in Metula, which is currently being rocketed by Hezbollah) and only our hips made contact and it broke his collarbone. 

When he landed on his shoulder?  

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

23 hours ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Lol yeah, the fucks that all about. AJ must have been playing injuird at the time they made that decision.

You have to wonder if the team doctors are once again part of the problem (re: treatment, rehab, etc).  There's enough of a past history (not in a good way) to wonder about that.

[MeanSeanBean]

21 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

You have to wonder if the team doctors are once again part of the problem (re: treatment, rehab, etc).  There's enough of a past history (not in a good way) to wonder about that.

You can wonder about that all you want. Based strictly off the information given I've made it abundantly clear I don't believe this was not the case in this scenario.

Edited May 26 by MeanSeanBean

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

You can wonder about that all you want. Based strictly off the information given I've made it abundantly clear I don't believe this was not the case in this scenario.

That's nice.  I've made it clear that I wonder if that's truly the case.  But neither one of us is privy to what the actual facts are so we're both just offering speculation.

[MeanSeanBean]

8 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

That's nice.  I've made it clear that I wonder if that's truly the case.  But neither one of us is privy to what the actual facts are so we're both just offering speculation.

Sure. But you started this conversation questioning the medic staff completely out of the blue when I was making a light-hearted joke towards another poster so I gave my input. I base my speculation off experience working in sports rehabilitation my entire adult life so I generally speak pretty confidently in these types of subjects based off the information given.

Edited May 26 by MeanSeanBean

[NewbieCanuckFan]

34 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Sure. But you started this conversation questioning the medic staff completely out of the blue when I was making a light-hearted joke towards another poster so I gave my input. I base my speculation off experience working in sports rehabilitation my entire adult life so I generally speak pretty confidently in these types of subjects based off the information given.

Fair enough.  Cheers.

 

I'm basing my medical speculation after having watched every single episode of Doogie Howser 

Edited May 26 by NewbieCanuckFan

[MeanSeanBean]

5 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Fair enough.  Cheers.

 

I'm basing my medical speculation after having watched every single episode of Doogie Howser 

 

Not relevant just the only gif available 

[-Buzzsaw-]

Anyone who suggests that Pettersson is faking his injury is either terminally stupid or a Canuck hater.

 

Pettersson has spent his entire life being ultra competitive and doing everything to excel and win.

 

To suggest someone with that level of commitment is going to lie about an injury tells you the poster knows nothing about professional athletes... or much about reality... and probably is some 5'8" 300 lb couch potato guzzling down a case of beer every game.

 

If Pettersson says he had a knee problem, he had a knee problem.

 

I am more concerned about the fact the medical staff decided it was unimportant.

 

Pettersson has shown what he can do at 100%... his track record puts him in the elite of the league.  For the medical staff to ignore this problem and let him continue to degrade tells me there is something wrong. 

 

We have seen this pattern before... on too many occasions with other Canuck players... Brandon Sutter, Alex Edler, Rick Rypien... Sven Baerschi, etc.

[-Buzzsaw-]

On 5/24/2024 at 7:38 AM, MeanSeanBean said:

Very similar injuries. Both are flexion/extension high density tendons. Historically more difficult to treat then an epicondylitis (golfers/tennis elbow) or a bicipital tendinitis. Much thicker tendons than work with a much higher force.

 

Anyone dismissing this injury as poor management or even fake news is being absurd. It does sound like there could have been some missteps with how they managed this injury when it started, but that's purely hindsight. Like I said previously, shutting down someone at the first signs of a tendinitis would have been stupid, and shutting him down late season hoping the rest you had would be enough is a crap shoot. It's possible the rest could have been enough to decrease the inflammation, it's also possible that the type of rest needed could have just led weakness in the area and coming back for the playoffs even more difficult if the tendinitis didn't fully resolve.

Whatever happened... and you are speculating, it is clear from Pettersson it affected his play... and reduced his mobility at an ever increasing severity as time went on.

 

I just hope this isn't anything serious.

[MeanSeanBean]

9 hours ago, -Buzzsaw- said:

Whatever happened... and you are speculating, it is clear from Pettersson it affected his play... and reduced his mobility at an ever increasing severity as time went on.

 

I just hope this isn't anything serious.

Everything in my post was assessment based off information given and my past experience treating patellar tendonitis.

 

9 hours ago, -Buzzsaw- said:

 

 

I am more concerned about the fact the medical staff decided it was unimportant.

 

Pettersson has shown what he can do at 100%... his track record puts him in the elite of the league.  For the medical staff to ignore this problem and let him continue to degrade tells me there is something wrong. 

 

 

See now this, this is pure speculation. Unimportant? Ignore the problem? I've already addressed several times the standard treatment for tendonitis and why it sounds like the issue was handled in a pretty standard way.

[JayDangles]

On 5/24/2024 at 6:29 PM, Steamer4GM said:

My guess (and that's all it is - just like most of the EP related posts in this thread) is that Toc has never had this kind of tendonitis and so is dismissively minimizing it because he's had something similar that didn't impact him as much as Petey's has impacted him.

 

Only reason I suspect this is because I have severe tendonopathy of the elbow at the insertion point of the bicep and it has literally fucked my upper body fitness pursuits for the past year and half plus. Granted, I'm in my late 50's so healing / recovery are slower but I can 100% tell you that, at it's peak pain point, I couldn't even take a jug of milk out of the fridge without using my left hand to support the bottom of the jug. And that was about 3-4 months after first symptoms and lasted for about 3 months before the benefits of complete rest started to kick in and the pain began to very slowly subside.

 

So, as much as I trust, value and respect Toc (I started his Jack Adams congrats thread ffs), I say he's full of shit and it's a dick move to minimize a team member's injury publicly or privately unless you've been through it yourself. Not to mention the optics of the entire thing casts the entire management and Petey in a negative light as not being on the same page and putting out a mixed message. Not cool

So you're willing to throw tocc under the bus over this? To me it's way more likely that petey was playing like shit, and the easiest way to draw attention away from that is to make a very basic injury tweet with zero substance. All of a sudden petey is the hero for playing through an injury.

To me it's way more likely that if an injury did exist, petey kept it to himself and made a long series of bad decisions which ultimately led to him hurting the team and himself.

[Poler]

3 hours ago, JayDangles said:

So you're willing to throw tocc under the bus over this? To me it's way more likely that petey was playing like shit, and the easiest way to draw attention away from that is to make a very basic injury tweet with zero substance. All of a sudden petey is the hero for playing through an injury.

To me it's way more likely that if an injury did exist, petey kept it to himself and made a long series of bad decisions which ultimately led to him hurting the team and himself.

So a player who was on 120 point pace through half the season suddenly his play dropped dramatically and you think he just his skill or drive made his play worse? 
Put yourself in Petterson shoes your on a contract year the team doing great and you start feeling little pain that’s gradually worse as time goes by. You play through it because you because you don’t want to seem like you can’t play through pain on injury. Also you want to sign your contract. Then it gets worse and by then it’s so painful you can’t skate as hard it affects your shot. You have a linemate who will always shoot at goalie crest and has no finish. Probably when coach realizes how bad shape Petterson is in it’s too late because it’s a few months rest to heal. (I had tennis elbow before and I couldn’t pick anything up with my left hand or would be screaming pain)

 

The coach probably didn’t want to put the medical staff under the bus as well so he down played his injury and most likely he’s the type that will expect the player to play through pain and reinvent his game. It’s hard to that though mid season with hogglander only one who has good hands. 
Let’s give Petterson the benefit of the doubt we have him for another 8 years and he not even in his prime yet. I highly doubt a player would lie to the fans on tv about something like that.