[Speculation] Canucks expected to make strong push to keep Lindholm

[fuzzy]

I would absolutely go 8 years if it lowers the cap hit. People forget that we are no longer in a flat cap world. With the Arizona black hole gone the cap will rise significantly moving forward. In 5 years everyone's current cap hit will look reasonable.

[garthsbutcher]

5 hours ago, The Duke said:

If Lindholm walks, I actually don’t mind a bottom 6 with Bleuger and Suter as 3C and 4C - or Bleuger as 3C so long as we retain Joshua.
 

Suter-Miller-Boeser

Hoglander-Petey-Toffoli? (or ideally someone a little younger)

Joshua-Bleuger-Garland

Podkolzin-4C-Mikheyev

PDG

 

That could be a cheap, effective, versatile lineup. If Mikheyev rebounds (or we find a way to offload him) it could be even better - and that’s probably the key - in addition to using Lindhom’s money to find a winger for Petey - to improving. 
 

Having Hoglander,  Suter and Podkolzin on cheap deals next year really helps - and Raty and Lekkerimaki could be ready to step in later in the season or next year.
 

Can’t see Bleuger breaking the bank.  I almost think we have more flexibility if we let Lindholm walk.

If you have Suter on your first line you are not going anywhere period

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, garthsbutcher said:

If you have Suter on your first line you are not going anywhere period

We have a healthy Demko in nets and our lineup this year wins the Cup. Suter on our top line and Mik on our second line is a Cup ring team wit Demko. 
I think some fans don’t realize how close we’re to the Cup with this group. 
We didn’t have Demko and still almost won. 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

Its funny how many people rip Suter or think if he is patrolling one of the top two lines the team won't succeed. He regularly is in the right spot at the right time and while he has plenty of chances he does pot 13% of those chances. He is a versatile forward the team is better for having anywhere up and down the lineup.

 

 

[DeNiro]

4 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Its funny how many people rip Suter or think if he is patrolling one of the top two lines the team won't succeed. He regularly is in the right spot at the right time and while he has plenty of chances he does pot 13% of those chances. He is a versatile forward the team is better for having anywhere up and down the lineup.

 

 

Yea how soon people forget he was our third line center to start the year when we were one of the best teams in the league.

 

He can slot anywhere in the lineup and he brings the same consistent two way effort. Glad we signed him to two years.

[canucks curse]

Hronek for Necas

Milky (4.75) + Podz (1) to CI for CHI 2nd 2024 (34th OA) + CHI 6th round 2024

 

CAP space 29.5

 

 

Necas 6.25 x 3 years

Joshua 3.25 x 5 yrs

Myers 2.33 x 3 yrs

Zads 5x5

Silovs 1.5

Bluegger 1.5 x 4 yrs 

Chandler Stephenson 5.5x5

Tanev 4.25x3

 

= 29.5

 

Necas Petey Hogz

Stephenson Miller Brock

Joshua Bluegger Garland

Aman Suter Letteremaki

 

Hughes Tanev

Zads Myers

Soucy Juulsen 

 

 

 

Letteremaki on PP2

top 9 is rugged enough to have a 4th line more skill

 

 

 

 

 

[RWJC]

44 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Its funny how many people rip Suter or think if he is patrolling one of the top two lines the team won't succeed. He regularly is in the right spot at the right time and while he has plenty of chances he does pot 13% of those chances. He is a versatile forward the team is better for having anywhere up and down the lineup.

 

 

i like Suter. I just think he’s a better option for us on the 3rd or 4th line to provide the quality depth we need as a cup contender. I have no problem with him playing in the top 6, but ideally we would have pieces that can perform better in those specific roles. 
as an example of contrast - would Suter be regularly playing in the top 6 on any of the final 4 teams? Answer is very likey no, save for maybe Edmonton. That’s enough for me to know how strong your 4 lines have to be to make it to the next step. Suter did an admirable job but it’s not an ideal solution playing up the lineup. He was a means to an end as we lack enough talent up top. 

Edited May 27 by RWJC

[The Duke]

1 hour ago, garthsbutcher said:

If you have Suter on your first line you are not going anywhere period

Miller and Boeser went PPG with the guy these playoffs and that line wasn’t the problem.  
 

So, I disagree.  The NHL works in duos and Suter is a responsible Swiss Army knife type who we can plug in wherever.  He’s not the focal point of the line at all, so switch another name in there if you want, but we know it works.

[Hammertime]

23 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

if PLD can get 8.5? with a carrer high 63 points?? Necas will definitely be asking 8+ easy.. i mean he's mostly playing 3rd line minutes/linemates in carolina.. his primary linemates for the season is KK, bunting, drury, nosen and still put up a decent points while only playing 16-17mins with around 1min of ppl time per game

That isn't really a ringing endorsement. 

[The Duke]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

We have a healthy Demko in nets and our lineup this year wins the Cup. Suter on our top line and Mik on our second line is a Cup ring team wit Demko. 
I think some fans don’t realize how close we’re to the Cup with this group. 
We didn’t have Demko and still almost won. 

Yeah, and we could always put Joshua or Garland up there for a more productive player.. but the point is to have some depth.  
 

Offseason we need to spend a few bucks (or assets) on a winger for Petey - and if he’s healthy that could very likely be the “first line” as well. (Or I guess if we re-sign Lindholm) 

[-Buzzsaw-]

Canucks wildly splurged in players and draft picks to get Lindholm... for them to let him walk would be a disaster.

[-Buzzsaw-]

44 minutes ago, RWJC said:

i like Suter. I just think he’s a better option for us on the 3rd or 4th line to provide the quality depth we need as a cup contender. I have no problem with him playing in the top 6, but ideally we would have pieces that can perform better in those specific roles. 
as an example of contrast - would Suter be regularly playing in the top 6 on any of the final 4 teams? Answer is very likey no, save for maybe Edmonton. That’s enough for me to know how strong your 4 lines have to be to make it to the next step. Suter did an admirable job but it’s not an ideal solution playing up the lineup. He was a means to an end as we lack enough talent up top. 

Suter would not be top six on Edmonton.

 

Kane, Nugent-Hopkins, Hyman, Henrique all have more goals/points impact and talent.

 

Suter should be the Canuck 4th line center, with two (new) big bruisers who can skate/hit and put up 15-20 pts on either side of him.  If the Canucks can't sign Blueger, then as a last resort Suter can be the 3rd line center.  (not optimum)

 

Canucks need legitimate 45 point wingers for the top 6... Suter does not meet that criteria at the moment...  he does not have the finish... he missed dozens and dozens of gimmes this last season.

Edited May 27 by -Buzzsaw-

[DeNiro]

5 minutes ago, -Buzzsaw- said:

Suter would not be top six on Edmonton.

 

Kane, Nugent-Hopkins, Hyman, Henrique all have more goals/points impact and talent.

 

Suter should be the Canuck 4th line center, with two (new) big bruisers who can skate/hit and put up 15-20 pts on either side of him.  If the Canucks can't sign Blueger, then as a last resort Suter can be the 3rd line center.  (not optimum)

 

Canucks need legitimate 45 point wingers for the top 6... Suter does not meet that criteria at the moment...  he does not have the finish... he missed dozens and dozens of gimmes this last season.

Henrique was a rental.

 

Brown was a top 6 player for Edmonton. Every team has those versatile guys that play up the lineup.

[Diamonds]

10 minutes ago, -Buzzsaw- said:

Canucks wildly splurged in players and draft picks to get Lindholm... for them to let him walk would be a disaster.

I wholeheartedly agree. However, that also doesn't mean we should overpay him to justify the trade. Sometimes it's better to cut your losses rather than dig yourself a bigger whole. Obviously Lindholm is a strong two-way player who seems to have gelled well with this group, but a line still has to be drawn somewhere.

[-Buzzsaw-]

4 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Henrique was a rental.

 

Brown was a top 6 player for Edmonton. Every team has those versatile guys that play up the lineup.

Legitimate contenders do not have guys putting up 12 points on the top six.... which is why the Oilers brought in Henrique to replace Brown.

 

As I mentioned in a reply on the Rangers/Panthers thread, both those teams have really good #1 and #2 lines... with top sixers filling up both lines.

 

Look at all the Stanley Cup winners over the last few years and you see the top 2 lines are really strong.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27 by -Buzzsaw-

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, Hammertime said:

That isn't really a ringing endorsement. 

it doesn't have to be a ringing endorsement.. it's all about comparables.. there are plenty of comparables out there already kyrou norris pld debrincat heck even johansen from his ancient deal.. his career high is as high as those guy.. and this year he still producing at decent rate despite no pp1 time and playing mostly 3rd line minutes.

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, -Buzzsaw- said:

Legitimate contenders do not have guys putting up 12 points on the top six.... which is why the Oilers brought in Henrique to replace Brown.

 

As I mentioned in a reply on the Rangers/Panthers thread, both those teams have really good #1 and #2 lines... with top sixers filling up both lines.

 

Look at all the Stanley Cup winners over the last few years and you see the top 2 lines are really strong.

 

 

 

 

 

yup just look at dallas.. their top 9 can easily all play in our top 6 no problem.. while we have mikheyev pdg laffety suter taking turns in our top 6

[Coconuts]

3 hours ago, -Buzzsaw- said:

Canucks wildly splurged in players and draft picks to get Lindholm... for them to let him walk would be a disaster.

 

Mmm, I disagree. It's not ideal to spend assets on players who walk but it happens, and it happens regularly as we see teams rent guys pretty much every year. Thing is, he contributed to a relatively inexperienced core getting some playoff reps and that's not nothing.

 

Yeah, I'd rather be heading into the draft with a 1st but the first step towards becoming a contender is becoming a playoff regular, gotta make the playoffs that initital time and we did that this season. Couple rounds of experience is extremely valuable too, most teams have to do their time getting eliminated come playoff time before they break through. 

 

The Lindholm trade was part of a stepping stone season. I can see how him walking to another team via UFA might upset some folks, but that doesn't mean the move itself would be a disaster. It's hard to quantify the value of playoff experience, but there's something to be said for having it, every team in the final four does. New York's been a playoff regular for years, Florida went to a cup final last season, Edmonton's regularly been in the mix, and Dallas has recently been to a cup final as well. 

Edited May 27 by Coconuts

[iinatcc]

8 hours ago, fuzzy said:

I would absolutely go 8 years if it lowers the cap hit. People forget that we are no longer in a flat cap world. With the Arizona black hole gone the cap will rise significantly moving forward. In 5 years everyone's current cap hit will look reasonable.

 

You want Lindholm for 8 years. Even if at 6 or 6.5 million, it's going to be a bad contract even before the contract reaches it's halfway point. 

[Alflives]

8 hours ago, -Buzzsaw- said:

Canucks wildly splurged in players and draft picks to get Lindholm... for them to let him walk would be a disaster.

We did? What did give up exactly? Two prospects who are both never going to be NHLers. Kuzmenko who refuses to play winning hockey. Oh and a first and a fourth. And actually that was the cost to dumperoo Cruise Missile. 
So in reality we gave up nothing for Lindy. He came free. 

[DrJockitch]

9 hours ago, -Buzzsaw- said:

Suter would not be top six on Edmonton.

 

Kane, Nugent-Hopkins, Hyman, Henrique all have more goals/points impact and talent.

 

Suter should be the Canuck 4th line center, with two (new) big bruisers who can skate/hit and put up 15-20 pts on either side of him.  If the Canucks can't sign Blueger, then as a last resort Suter can be the 3rd line center.  (not optimum)

 

Canucks need legitimate 45 point wingers for the top 6... Suter does not meet that criteria at the moment...  he does not have the finish... he missed dozens and dozens of gimmes this last season.

Now compare their salaries. 
‘You are thinking of Suter wrong.  Suter is a multi tool. He is a middle six winger that can slot in anywhere in your lineup if needed. Spot duty in top 6 as wing or centre, sure, move down to provide a bit more scoring threat on 4th, absolutely. He is good defensively and has some offence. 
‘He is the type of guy you sign to provide flexibility in the lineup not build a roster around. 
‘We do need a top 6 winger absolutely but that doesn’t change how useful Suter is. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

I'd consider letting Blueger and Joshua go to keep Lindholm. Joshua will ask for 3-4M. Blueger surely 1-2M.

 

Otherwise we go the depth route and keep the 3rd liners but try and find a slightly better 3C than Blueger.

[CanuckMan]

12 hours ago, Alflives said:

We have a healthy Demko in nets and our lineup this year wins the Cup. Suter on our top line and Mik on our second line is a Cup ring team wit Demko. 
I think some fans don’t realize how close we’re to the Cup with this group. 
We didn’t have Demko and still almost won. 

I don’t think we lost cause of goal tending. It was a lack of scoring that cost us the series. Canucks were deflated in games 6 and 7. What do you expect, Demko to skate down the ice and put it in the back of their net? 
 

Suter and Mikheyev are barely 30 point players. They are most definitely bottom 6 players not top 6. 

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, CanuckMan said:

I don’t think we lost cause of goal tending. It was a lack of scoring that cost us the series. Canucks were deflated in games 6 and 7. What do you expect, Demko to skate down the ice and put it in the back of their net? 
 

Suter and Mikheyev are barely 30 point players. They are most definitely bottom 6 players not top 6. 

Demko stops picks in the playoffs at a plus .930 rate. Silovs was under .900. 
Of course there was a huge drop off in nets. The players play differently too when Demko is in goal. The D connect to the offence more. It’s a cascading negative affect on the entire club when we don’t have Demko. 
Silovs is fine but he’s not a Vezina level goalie. Big difference. 

[fuzzy]

4 hours ago, iinatcc said:

 

You want Lindholm for 8 years. Even if at 6 or 6.5 million, it's going to be a bad contract even before the contract reaches it's halfway point. 

Yes, absolutely!!!  With a rising cap in 4yrs 4th liners will be making 6 mil. Lock in elite talent while you can.