[discussion] extend or trade Boeser?

[EastCoastExpress]

47 minutes ago, Rypien-Punch said:

I would rather put his salary cap towards a top 4 D. Its not just about an individuals goal output for a team. If the team is better defensively, harder to play against, and can go deeper in the playoffs then that has better overall value for the team than one guy who can put the puck in the net. 

It will be easier to find guys who can score up front on the wings than guys who can control the whole game from the  D zone. Training camp should tell where the new guys are at and some of the up and coming prospects. 

 

I would rather we traded Boeser for Marcus Pettersson and create more balance with our D lines 

 

Joshua Miller Sprong 

Debrusk Pettersson Garland

Heinen Suter Hoglander

PDG Blueger Sherwood 

Aman 

 

Hughes Hronek 

Pettersson Myers

Soucy Desjarnais 

Forbort Juulsen 

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree, I think DPetey would be the right Pettersson.

I like your Joshua with Miller but Boeser needs to be RW.

I dont know how you just give away a talent like Boeser who is just starting to show.

Miller sucked 4 years ago. Well, he didnt suck but his stats were not there.... look what mature forwards grow up to be.

Boeser also has chemistry with Petey, in case the Garlund experiment doesnt go your way.

The Poolman contract falls off this season, which covers the bump in the OEL cap hit.

Cap increase should be enough to pay Brock Boeser a fair market value with lowering the AVV by doing 8 years?

 

I think Hughes, Demko, Boeser, and EP40 have the best chance of current players to be life long Canucks.

 

[RU SERIOUS]

We'll have to wait and see how he does but at present I'd say there's a 65-75% chance he'll be gone next year simply due to Cap issues and the fact he's a one dimensional player (simply a shooter). Of course, he might surprise everyone and start playing a "more fully engaged" game this year because it's his contract year - but I doubt it. Time will tell.

[EastCoastExpress]

2 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

We'll have to wait and see how he does but at present I'd say there's a 65-75% chance he'll be gone next year simply due to Cap issues and the fact he's a one dimensional player (simply a shooter). Of course, he might surprise everyone and start playing a "more fully engaged" game this year because it's his contract year - but I doubt it. Time will tell.

if you think Boeser is "simply a shooter" then watch highlights of JT goals. Just saying. If it wasnt hughes setting JT up it was Brock.

[cripplereh]

To me going forward I think of all the Canucks Brock will be the player moved.

 

His value is high and time will tell if he gets as many points or not.

 

 

[EastCoastExpress]

32 minutes ago, cripplereh said:

To me going forward I think of all the Canucks Brock will be the player moved.

 

His value is high and time will tell if he gets as many points or not.

 

 

If they dont extend him soon, after the coming season they wont be able to afford Boeser. If he is going to out-score Miller, Pettersson, what do you do?

The fans and media don't appreciate him in Vancouver, but the rest of the League does. After another season like this one, why would he stay?

We dont even get to see what impact he has in the dressing room. But I think any other NHL player has more respect for Boeser than any of them have for Pettersson.

There are a few loud critics about Brock but I think he is one of the best Canucks we have had since 2011. Get the Sedin's opinion please.

Edited September 1 by EastCoastExpress

[RU SERIOUS]

6 hours ago, EastCoastExpress said:

If they dont extend him soon, after the coming season they wont be able to afford Boeser. If he is going to out-score Miller, Pettersson, what do you do?

The fans and media don't appreciate him in Vancouver, but the rest of the League does. After another season like this one, why would he stay?

We dont even get to see what impact he has in the dressing room. But I think any other NHL player has more respect for Boeser than any of them have for Pettersson.

There are a few loud critics about Brock but I think he is one of the best Canucks we have had since 2011. Get the Sedin's opinion please.

There might be some merit in what you say.  11-6 is a skinny rail of a player and as we saw in the playoffs can't handle physical play very well and can be crushed easily and I'm not just saying this because he's another regular season timid finesse swede that can't skate a shift without falling down - either.  But obviously PA will lean towards keeping one of "his own homeboys" before anyone else, especially BB6. So I'd say BB6 is likely a goner, but 11-6 is not guaranteed to stay either, as he can still be traded this season if he falls apart like last year and Canucks Mgmt realized they wildly overpaid him - because his NTC does not kick in for 1 more year - although that is very unlikely to happen. should be interesting to see how things shake out.

[Bob Long]

5 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

There might be some merit in what you say.  11-6 is a skinny rail of a player and as we saw in the playoffs can't handle physical play very well and can be crushed easily and I'm not just saying this because he's another regular season timid finesse swede that can't skate a shift without falling down - either.  But obviously PA will lean towards keeping one of "his own homeboys" before anyone else, especially BB6. So I'd say BB6 is likely a goner, but 11-6 is not guaranteed to stay either, as he can still be traded this season if he falls apart like last year and Canucks Mgmt realized they wildly overpaid him - because his NTC does not kick in for 1 more year - although that is very unlikely to happen. should be interesting to see how things shake out.

 

It's busy in there I see.

 

[Rip The Mesh]

15 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

We'll have to wait and see how he does but at present I'd say there's a 65-75% chance he'll be gone next year simply due to Cap issues and the fact he's a one dimensional player (simply a shooter). Of course, he might surprise everyone and start playing a "more fully engaged" game this year because it's his contract year - but I doubt it. Time will tell.

Boeser may well be the best passer on the team, or close to it. Hughes is as good. Many folks may think players are going to want the world on their next contract.

See what kind of year Boes has, but I wouldn't automatically think he'll want a major bump. Miller and Boeser are a force..

[Bob Long]

37 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Boeser may well be the best passer on the team, or close to it. Hughes is as good. Many folks may think players are going to want the world on their next contract.

See what kind of year Boes has, but I wouldn't automatically think he'll want a major bump. Miller and Boeser are a force..

 

He has really elevated as a playmaker with Miller. And he apparently has a good sense of timing in the playoffs.

 

I hope that they get something reasonable done .

[Northern_Nuck]

51 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Boeser may well be the best passer on the team, or close to it. Hughes is as good. Many folks may think players are going to want the world on their next contract.

See what kind of year Boes has, but I wouldn't automatically think he'll want a major bump. Miller and Boeser are a force..

If he scores 40 again, he’ll be expecting Rantanen numbers. 

[Phil_314]

28 minutes ago, Northern_Nuck said:

If he scores 40 again, he’ll be expecting Rantanen numbers. 

It's part of the process of building a contender, identifying and paying the core pieces (#1 C, #2 C, #1 W, #1 G, #1 LD, #1 RD, shutdown C if different from #2 C) and if Boeser is the #1 W on this team (which he's been so far) I think him getting paid some would be worthwhile.  Not sure if he's Rantanen level but Allvin should be taking out the cheque book to pay him.  

[Northern_Nuck]

Just now, Phil_314 said:

It's part of the process of building a contender, identifying and paying the core pieces (#1 C, #2 C, #1 W, #1 G, #1 LD, #1 RD, shutdown C if different from #2 C) and if Boeser is the #1 W on this team (which he's been so far) I think him getting paid some would be worthwhile.  Not sure if he's Rantanen level but Allvin should be taking out the cheque book to pay him.  

I dunno… but as one poster pointed out here previously BB6 is in the same speed percentile as Lucic, Reeves, Maroon. 
  I don’t think that bodes well for Boeser long term on an 8x8. He’s gonna make Louis Eriksson’s deal look like a bargain in the back half. I feel that’s something we should be selling high on. 

[EastCoastExpress]

22 minutes ago, Northern_Nuck said:

I dunno… but as one poster pointed out here previously BB6 is in the same speed percentile as Lucic, Reeves, Maroon. 
  I don’t think that bodes well for Boeser long term on an 8x8. He’s gonna make Louis Eriksson’s deal look like a bargain in the back half. I feel that’s something we should be selling high on. 

Same speed percentile as Ovechkin, you mean. And that guy still scoring. Boeser's Speed is not an issue, when its his hands and IQ getting the job done.

https://edge.nhl.com/en/compare/skaters/20232024-regular-8478444-20232024-regular-8471214

Edited September 1 by EastCoastExpress

[RU SERIOUS]

1 hour ago, Northern_Nuck said:

If he scores 40 again, he’ll be expecting Rantanen numbers. 

Which means BB6 can also expect to be gone by TDL!    We can't afford to pay him much more without some sizeable impacts to the roster due to the mess Jim Benning left in JR's hands. Next year into 2027 we'll be paying $5M/Yr for OEL alone and his buyout/retained salary continues for years to come - not to mention another ~$1M for Mikeyey's buyout into the 25-26 year.  So when you're talking close to $6M a year being thrown away, it's gonna have to hurt somewhere. Not to mention Demko's new contact comes due in 2026 and then the new QH contract in 2027 and we all know what those are going to cost and they will keep them before BB6 any day of the week.  The writing is pretty well on the wall for the guy and he likely knows it but you never know, maybe JR pulls a rabbit out of the hat or the Cap goes way up.

[EastCoastExpress]

1 hour ago, Northern_Nuck said:

If he scores 40 again, he’ll be expecting Rantanen numbers. 

he would DESERVE Rantanen numbers. I dont think he would demand them

3 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Which means BB6 can also expect to be gone by TDL!    We can't afford to pay him much more without some sizeable impacts to the roster due to the mess Jim Benning left in JR's hands. Next year into 2027 we'll be paying $5M/Yr for OEL alone and his buyout/retained salary continues for years to come - not to mention another ~$1M for Mikeyey's buyout into the 25-26 year.  So when you're talking close to $6M a year being thrown away, it's gonna have to hurt somewhere. Not to mention Demko's new contact comes due in 2026 and then the new QH contract in 2027 and we all know what those are going to cost and they will keep them before BB6 any day of the week.  The writing is pretty well on the wall for the guy and he likely knows it but you never know, maybe JR pulls a rabbit out of the hat or the Cap goes way up.

If they could extend BB06 now rather than next year, I think they can manage the AAV like they did with Miller.

Poolman's contract covers the increase in OEL Cap. So there is room for a reasonable number for Boeser.

[cripplereh]

5 hours ago, Northern_Nuck said:

I dunno… but as one poster pointed out here previously BB6 is in the same speed percentile as Lucic, Reeves, Maroon. 
  I don’t think that bodes well for Boeser long term on an 8x8. He’s gonna make Louis Eriksson’s deal look like a bargain in the back half. I feel that’s something we should be selling high on. 

That's what I say.

 

Yes not taken ng away from his ability but how long can he do it???

 

So far two years and that's all.

 

Long deal after he hits 30 might just go back to under 30 goals and be a horrible deal.Might not but think when he slows down and that might be three to four years then he won't be the same.

 

Best thing is to think ahead and get a Center and picks,or good D with picks.

 

Those picks can be used to trade elsewhere.

[Hammertime]

10 hours ago, EastCoastExpress said:

he would DESERVE Rantanen numbers. I dont think he would demand them

If they could extend BB06 now rather than next year, I think they can manage the AAV like they did with Miller.

Poolman's contract covers the increase in OEL Cap. So there is room for a reasonable number for Boeser.

What's a reasonable number? 

For me I throw my full support behind Brock around 8x4 or 7.25x5 but when corntacts start exceeding 40m I'm out. Even if he repeats last years performance.

 

Rantanen money is just silly talk. DESERVE don't be ridiculous. 

 

 

[Hammertime]

12 hours ago, EastCoastExpress said:

Same speed percentile as Ovechkin, you mean. And that guy still scoring. Boeser's Speed is not an issue, when its his hands and IQ getting the job done.

https://edge.nhl.com/en/compare/skaters/20232024-regular-8478444-20232024-regular-8471214

You realize comparing 27yo Brock to 38yo Ovi advocating a long term deal is comedy or maybe I'm missing the joke. 

[IBatch]

On 8/31/2024 at 7:06 PM, RU SERIOUS said:

We'll have to wait and see how he does but at present I'd say there's a 65-75% chance he'll be gone next year simply due to Cap issues and the fact he's a one dimensional player (simply a shooter). Of course, he might surprise everyone and start playing a "more fully engaged" game this year because it's his contract year - but I doubt it. Time will tell.

Did you miss last season and the playoffs? 

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, Hammertime said:

What's a reasonable number? 

For me I throw my full support behind Brock around 8x4 or 7.25x5 but when corntacts start exceeding 40m I'm out. Even if he repeats last years performance.

 

Rantanen money is just silly talk. DESERVE don't be ridiculous. 

 

 

To me he's earned a 5-6 year extension to date.  

 

What he will get with us or on another team is anyone's guess.   What im expecting though, is a repeat on last season, and either us or another team, offering a full term deal.   And yes that comes with risks.   Best we can hope for, is Brock signing at under fair market value, then producing.    Last year and the playoff's, to me anyways, is the real Brock.   We saw glimpses of this before.    Brock and Miller have Linden/Adams/Courtnall appeal/vibes after watching this team for decades.    Would like to see more of it.   Don't know what we can find on the open market to replace that.    As for his speed, it's never been much of an issue as far as his game goes.    He's not invisible like Toffoli, and wins his board battles more often then not (that goes back years now) and is more engaged then he's ever been.   "Soft" "one dimensional" isn't fair (not saying you're on that bandwagon, but read it enough), his passing is also very good, his IQ high. 

 

Agree contracts are too long in general.   If he wants a 7-8 year deal, we need to see another year like last season 2/3 way in, and also shouldn't be looking at much of a raise either.    Otherwise, yes exactly this.   Would prefer that too.  Pay him for what he's worth now,  pay him for what he's worth later, later.   Actually wish more NHLers take Matthews route.   5 year deal for the Sedins.   They were overpaid their final deal, maybe it was some make up like we did with Burrows.   Aside from Luongo, and rightly so, he was that teams true superstar year in year out, we didn't have anyone on more then a 5 year deal.   Even with that, it came with consequences.   

 

JT Miller, Brock can be the aging vets on this teams current core.   It's still a young team.    And we've reached that sweet spot where where everyone is in their primes at the same time.   Dividends. 

 

As for Rantanen lol.  Ok.  He's been a top 2-4 RW for half a decade now...so not a good comp.   Brock has eclipsed 70 points once.   Sure goal scoring adds value,  injuries and consistency reduce it back to par.   6.1 is where 80th in scoring the past 3 seasons overall earns.    Feel we have probably 3 maybe 4 more seasons of what we saw last year or better with Brock.    Not an easy decision.    If we trade him, won't be terribly disappointed,  given Allvins job with Horvat. 

Edited September 2 by IBatch

[smithers joe]

what will our cap look like if we sign boeser and hughes big contracts? can we fit both in van and still ice a full team?

[Rip The Mesh]

On 9/1/2024 at 8:56 AM, Northern_Nuck said:

If he scores 40 again, he’ll be expecting Rantanen numbers. 

I don't think so. He's a Canuck to the core and will take less then his (what would be his market value). The Money will not be the issue.

[Hammertime]

17 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

I don't think so. He's a Canuck to the core and will take less then his (what would be his market value). The Money will not be the issue.

 

Sign for less? Was that when he held out until Sept 21st to sign a contract with a terrible QO.

 

Or when he leaned on that QO and signed for 6.7m after 3 seasons of mediocraty. 

 

Then followed up his "earned" payday with 18g and a -20.

 

He's never taken any kind of discount. What makes you think he will now? 

 

I agree with @IBatch his career body of work has his value around 6m maybe 7 with inflation x 5 or 6 years.  He's clearly going to try to get max $$ in FA and why shouldn't he? If theres any indication that he's going to test UFA I wish him well on his merry way and hope that we return good assets on him that will improve our team for years to come. 

 

Anyone thinking he's going to sign some sweetheart deal with us. I'm curious what makes you think that?

[Rip The Mesh]

18 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

 

Sign for less? Was that when he held out until Sept 21st to sign a contract with a terrible QO.

 

Or when he leaned on that QO and signed for 6.7m after 3 seasons of mediocraty. 

 

Then followed up his "earned" payday with 18g and a -20.

 

He's never taken any kind of discount. What makes you think he will now? 

 

I agree with @IBatch his career body of work has his value around 6m maybe 7 with inflation x 5 or 6 years.  He's clearly going to try to get max $$ in FA and why shouldn't he? If theres any indication that he's going to test UFA I wish him well on his merry way and hope that we return good assets on him that will improve our team for years to come. 

 

Anyone thinking he's going to sign some sweetheart deal with us. I'm curious what makes you think that?

Knowing where the mindset of the player is, which you, obviously haven't picked up on. / Once again; He want's to stay a Canuck! 

Let's just see what happens before throwing cow-pies at the man! 

He helped Pettersson a hell of lot early on as well. Now JT. 

If I recall; The three seasons of mediocrity was with, shall we say, under a stupid coach. When looking at stats, you have to take into consideration

the variables.

 

Dismissed

 

[Hammertime]

10 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Knowing where the mindset of the player is, which you, obviously haven't picked up on. / Once again; He want's to stay a Canuck! 

Let's just see what happens before throwing cow-pies at the man! 

He helped Pettersson a hell of lot early on as well. Now JT. 

If I recall; The three seasons of mediocrity was with, shall we say, under a stupid coach. When looking at stats, you have to take into consideration

the variables.

 

Dismissed

 

If he hasn't signed this sweetheart deal by the deadline we will know his intentions. 

 

Excused