[discussion] extend or trade Boeser?

[higgyfan]

Brock and JT have terrific chemistry, so it's tricky to start changing things up.  Unfortunately,

it comes in the same year that OELs buyout tops out at $4.77m and there are few UFAs leaving.

Of course, all eyes will be watching what Lekky does this season (how close is he to joining the

team).

 

 

[TheGuardian]

On 6/3/2024 at 7:14 PM, higgyfan said:

Brock and JT have terrific chemistry, so it's tricky to start changing things up.  Unfortunately,

it comes in the same year that OELs buyout tops out at $4.77m and there are few UFAs leaving.

Of course, all eyes will be watching what Lekky does this season (how close is he to joining the

team).

 

 

Brock will be too expensive.

Miller will be getting slower.

There is no players to take their spots

Trade BB now to try to get the most, last year they couldn't give him away.

BB is also the slowest Canuck player.

There are teams that will want what he has as a veteran and his hands haven't disappeared yet.

 

[Hammertime]

20 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

Brock will be too expensive.

Miller will be getting slower.

There is no players to take their spots

Trade BB now to try to get the most, last year they couldn't give him away.

BB is also the slowest Canuck player.

There are teams that will want what he has as a veteran and his hands haven't disappeared yet.

 

Yep.

 

Reves and Looch are considerably faster than Brock. 

 

 

 

Canucks need to get faster. This is the opportunity to cash out before free agency. 

[Alflives]

Extend! Holy craperolla is there any other answer for a true Canuck fan? 

[IBatch]

On 6/17/2024 at 10:48 PM, Hammertime said:

Yep.

 

Reves and Looch are considerably faster than Brock. 

 

 

 

Canucks need to get faster. This is the opportunity to cash out before free agency. 

Notice the skating distance, a lot better?    Did these guys score 40 goals?   It's not like he's got concrete shoes.    Curious, why don't you do one with JT Miller as well.   Or Joshua's.   Our  resident "speedster" Mikheyev.  Let's see how the "fast" guys do.  Aside from a couple guys in the league that are known for it, i bet that you won't find a huge difference compared to the rest of the pack.   And have been saying this since the "need for speed" became a big deal when the Pens were winning their cups,  who cares!  Mason Raymond.   Hagelin.   Hockey has a lot more elements than just speed.     Brock and Miller handled McDavid as well or good as any other top line last season.     Suter or Pizza.   Add them too out of curiosity.   

 

Our D needed size.   Look how that changed things for us.    QHs ... add him too.   Know he's a defenseman, but bet he's not reaching the higher limits either.   As the best PMD in the business. 

 

And for the OP,  Brock is going to get an offer in the 7.5-8 x 8 range.   Goals are weighted higher than assists.    Wingers get less than centers.     Look what Skinner got, after his 40 plus goal season.   @Elias Pettersson is correct, on the open market if he scores 35-40 again, and a PPG,  someone will offer him a lot more than that.    It won't cost us a lot either.   A modest raise.    Suspect he will sign for something between 7.5 and 8.    Because I'm confident that the 35/35 guy he was booked for early on, is back.    And the rest of his game is completely different.   He's active on the boards and has always been elite when it comes to who comes away with the puck...he's just doing it a lot more now.    Hustles to get back ... and well "soft" that's gone too.    He's capable of been the best Canuck on any given night.    Had a better season than EP.    And now EP apologists (many who were Brock bashers), whine that Miller (formerly saddled with Brock), doesn't get to play with Brock.  

 

Brock and Miller was one of the best lines in hockey last year.   Not top tier, but maybe the next up after that.    Look at their plus minus, was sick.   

Edited June 24 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 6/17/2024 at 10:58 PM, Alflives said:

Extend! Holy craperolla is there any other answer for a true Canuck fan? 

Longest serving Canuck.  Check 

Calder runner up.   Check

Terrible injury luck and life luck in the rear view mirror.   Check 

 

Was that the best season in Brock's career?   JT Miller and Brock certainly don't think so.   They believe that this is just the start of things to come.   Given the age of their core.    It's just entering its prime.    Prime's for guys like this, don't last one season.   Look at Miller.   Year five and counting.   Sedins lasted 7 years.    Naslund's five (with some good seasons before and after).    Also look how old they were when it started.   Right around Brock and Millers age when theirs started.    It's pretty well known, 26-33 are forwards best seasons.     Brock's starting cap percentage, will be in the 8.4-9% range.     Not the 13.6% range.   Or 11% range.  
 

Edit:  Range could go down.   Depends how many goals he's got by around the all-star break.    Personally figure 35/35 is going to be the norm for the next four years.  And that we haven't seen his peak yet either. 

Edited June 24 by IBatch

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Longest serving Canuck.  Check 

Calder runner up.   Check

Terrible injury luck and life luck in the rear view mirror.   Check 

 

Was that the best season in Brock's career?   JT Miller and Brock certainly don't think so.   They believe that this is just the start of things to come.   Given the age of their core.    It's just entering its prime.    Prime's for guys like this, don't last one season.   Look at Miller.   Year five and counting.   Sedins lasted 7 years.    Naslund's five (with some good seasons before and after).    Also look how old they were when it started.   Right around Brock and Millers age when theirs started.    It's pretty well known, 26-33 are forwards best seasons.     Brock's starting cap percentage, will be in the 8.4-9% range.     Not the 13.6% range.   Or 11% range.    

Brock changed his off season training habits last summer too. No more da Beauty League. He will be even more fit this coming season. And like you point out Brock plays well with Miller. I wonder if a healthy Mik could be their big, fast, hard on the forecheck winger? 

[IBatch]

17 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Brock changed his off season training habits last summer too. No more da Beauty League. He will be even more fit this coming season. And like you point out Brock plays well with Miller. I wonder if a healthy Mik could be their big, fast, hard on the forecheck winger? 

Mikheyev or Garland.   Tough choice.    Mikheyev could be that guy if he gains his confidence back.    One of those guys will need to be traded to change the forward group.    Allvin and Tocchet will have a lot to figure out.     

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Mikheyev or Garland.   Tough choice.    Mikheyev could be that guy if he gains his confidence back.    One of those guys will need to be traded to change the forward group.    Allvin and Tocchet will have a lot to figure out.     

Yup. If PA can find no takers for Garland and (or) Mik we might be looking at a top six that is:

Geuntzel, Petey, Mik

Garland, Miller, Boeser

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Yup. If PA can find no takers for Garland and (or) Mik we might be looking at a top six that is:

Geuntzel, Petey, Mik

Garland, Miller, Boeser

What would our D-corp look like?   

[Alflives]

Just now, IBatch said:

What would our D-corp look like?   

Good question. Maybe???

Hughes, Hronek

Soucy, Tanev

Dillon, Myers

Juulsson

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

Good question. Maybe???

Hughes, Hronek

Soucy, Tanev

Dillon, Myers

Juulsson

Remove Guentzel and yes that's about right. 

[Alflives]

40 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Remove Guentzel and yes that's about right. 

Well, removing Guentzel doesn’t make the club better. Removing Garland and replacing him with JG certainly does though. 

[cripplereh]

Me it is easy,if Brock plays like last year we can't afford him so TDL or draft we trade him.

 

Same thing if he doesn't play like last year TDL get what you can.

 

 

Either way think he is gone unless we get cap space which I don't see.

[Rip The Mesh]

Given what this team is + what it needs, you bite the bullet on a financial basis and extend Brock Boeser, 100%.  He's as good as he's ever been

and the perfect partner for JT Miller. These are decisions that can win championships.

 

[Phil_314]

Considering what Konecny got in his extension, I couldn't see Boeser getting anything less than that, esp. if the cap goes up.
IF we keep him, someone like Garland probably has to go to make it financially viable.  Hopefully Lekkerimaki can provide cheap ELC depth during the years that OEL's contract peaks and other extensions kick in, otherwise we may need to trade BB.

[Zimmyparttwo]

19 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

Considering what Konecny got in his extension, I couldn't see Boeser getting anything less than that, esp. if the cap goes up.
IF we keep him, someone like Garland probably has to go to make it financially viable.  Hopefully Lekkerimaki can provide cheap ELC depth during the years that OEL's contract peaks and other extensions kick in, otherwise we may need to trade BB.

8.75 does not fit into the Canucks internal salary structure. Not arguing what Brock might be worth in comparison to Konecny or the open market, for that matter. There’s just no way JRPA/ management pays him anything in the upper eights or higher. 

He’ll sign a “ modified” team friendly deal or they will move off.

This is a hard line organization now. They are not afraid to move off players, even ones with the history Boesser has with this team.

[Snoop Hogg]

21 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

Considering what Konecny got in his extension, I couldn't see Boeser getting anything less than that, esp. if the cap goes up.
IF we keep him, someone like Garland probably has to go to make it financially viable.  Hopefully Lekkerimaki can provide cheap ELC depth during the years that OEL's contract peaks and other extensions kick in, otherwise we may need to trade BB.

Given the choice, I’d rather keep Boeser than Garland.

[Phil_314]

23 hours ago, Zimmyparttwo said:

8.75 does not fit into the Canucks internal salary structure. Not arguing what Brock might be worth in comparison to Konecny or the open market, for that matter. There’s just no way JRPA/ management pays him anything in the upper eights or higher. 

He’ll sign a “ modified” team friendly deal or they will move off.

This is a hard line organization now. They are not afraid to move off players, even ones with the history Boesser has with this team.

I hope that's indeed the case, stick with the internal structure (like how the rumored Hronek and Zadorov/ Lindholm extensions would've been too pricey, we can't be afraid to move them even if that's the case for Boeser).

[Rypien-Punch]

Someone else posted this line up and I like it. Would be interesting to see Brock play with Pettersson and Debrusk. I think we should extend him in the 6.5M range 

 

Debrusk Pettersson Boeser

Heinen Miller Garland

Joshua Suter Sprong 

Sherwood Blueger Hoglander 

PDG 

[IBatch]

On 7/29/2024 at 2:24 AM, Rypien-Punch said:

Someone else posted this line up and I like it. Would be interesting to see Brock play with Pettersson and Debrusk. I think we should extend him in the 6.5M range 

 

Debrusk Pettersson Boeser

Heinen Miller Garland

Joshua Suter Sprong 

Sherwood Blueger Hoglander 

PDG 

With a full term deal,  for sure we could bring his cap hit down.    That's a re-work for sure.    Miller and Brock won't be easy to break up, and well, i'm with Tochett "won't lie i've considered what DeBrusk on Millers line could look like".   EP wasn't the only guy dealing with some lesser talent  on his line.   Suter is a plugger but he's no Pearson either.   Or solid middle six talent.   That's Garland. 

Edited August 2 by IBatch

[Komodo0921]

BB is an enigmatic player for me.

On the one hand, he spent so many of his earlier years, fighting fluke injuries and personal tragedy, that it's been really hard to assess his value.

On the other hand, this past season was a real eye-opener to the real potential he has but, it was one season.

I, also, find it hard to believe PA hasn't reached to BB's camp to get some insight into what kind of number gets a deal done.

The fact that he hasn't put ink to paper, tells me that his number is too high.

I know one thing. I hate going into seasons with star players on expiring contracts. As GM, it would be my job to think about the team first; not the player.

Waiting till the last moment gives the player too much leverage, allowing for overpayment to occur. Imo, Petey is a good example.

PA should know right now what his number for BB and should have it in front of him.

If he takes it, great. If he doesn't, it's time to move on.

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, Komodo0921 said:

BB is an enigmatic player for me.

On the one hand, he spent so many of his earlier years, fighting fluke injuries and personal tragedy, that it's been really hard to assess his value.

On the other hand, this past season was a real eye-opener to the real potential he has but, it was one season.

I, also, find it hard to believe PA hasn't reached to BB's camp to get some insight into what kind of number gets a deal done.

The fact that he hasn't put ink to paper, tells me that his number is too high.

I know one thing. I hate going into seasons with star players on expiring contracts. As GM, it would be my job to think about the team first; not the player.

Waiting till the last moment gives the player too much leverage, allowing for overpayment to occur. Imo, Petey is a good example.

PA should know right now what his number for BB and should have it in front of him.

If he takes it, great. If he doesn't, it's time to move on.

I wouldn't say Brock's number is too high, it's very possible there hasn't been any talks yet.   Alvin said he's on the docket (a priority) but is in no rush (basically).   To me that means he wants to see more of what Brock showed last season before committing long term which is fair.    Also don't think Brock's going to cost the farm.  A modest raise to low, mid 7's.    He didn't earn his last deals and knows it.    Aside from one season maybe during covid, and last season, he's been paid like a free agent.  

 

As far as his "breakout" season, we've seen flashes of that.   He's and stretches of a dozen games, with a dozen points, the best forward on the team over those periods.   But they've been far and too few in between.    His rookie year, he looked every bit as important to the future of the team as EP and QHs did (for me anyways).    That shot!  What accuracy.   Seemed like 50 goal seasons in his prime were likely, and that we drafted a guy who would consistently score 35/35 on the way there.    The hockey fantasy mags (McKeens, THN) felt that way for several years ... and eventually gave up, 25/25, what you see is what you get.    Do believe without those fluke injuries and his Dad passing, for sure he'd of managed that.   Was one of a few posters who kept saying "just wait" ... spent a lot of time defending him.    Played himself out of being core, and possibly back into it.  

 

If he plays like he did last year,  then things are golden.   Doubt he's going to get a massive offer.   They didn't do it for Horvat, who played center.   But it will be reasonable.   And an 8 year offer too.   Expect something like 7.25 x 8.  

 

Also want to say, I like Brock's game.   He won't break faces and hit someone through the boards, but he doesn't shy from the tough areas, backchecks and just works with JT Miller.   Those two are the only forwards, who've played together on a consistent basis the past five years.    JR/Allvin like to do lines based on pairs.    Only way the offer goes up, is if Brock comes out guns ablazing.   Won't be surprised if we don't see his deal done until around the TDL.   It gives Allvin options too. 

Edited August 25 by IBatch

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

I wouldn't say Brock's number is too high, it's very possible there hasn't been any talks yet.   Alvin said he's on the docket (a priority) but is in no rush (basically).   To me that means he wants to see more of what Brock showed last season before committing long term which is fair.    Also don't think Brock's going to cost the farm.  A modest raise to low, mid 7's.    He didn't earn his last deals and knows it.    Aside from one season maybe during covid, and last season, he's been paid like a free agent.  

 

As far as his "breakout" season, we've seen flashes of that.   He's and stretches of a dozen games, with a dozen points, the best forward on the team over those periods.   But they've been far and too few in between.    His rookie year, he looked every bit as important to the future of the team as EP and QHs did (for me anyways).    That shot!  What accuracy.   Seemed like 50 goal seasons in his prime were likely, and that we drafted a guy who would consistently score 35/35 on the way there.    The hockey fantasy mags (McKeens, THN) felt that way for several years ... and eventually gave up, 25/25, what you see is what you get.    Do believe without those fluke injuries and his Dad passing, for sure he'd of managed that.   Was one of a few posters who kept saying "just wait" ... spent a lot of time defending him.    Played himself out of being core, and possibly back into it.  

 

If he plays like he did last year,  then things are golden.   Doubt he's going to get a massive offer.   They didn't do it for Horvat, who played center.   But it will be reasonable.   And an 8 year offer too.   Expect something like 7.25 x 8.  

 

Also want to say, I like Brock's game.   He won't break faces and hit someone through the boards, but he doesn't shy from the tough areas, backchecks and just works with JT Miller.   Those two are the only forwards, who've played together on a consistent basis the past five years.    JR/Allvin like to do lines based on pairs.    Only way the offer goes up, is if Brock comes out guns ablazing.   Won't be surprised if we don't see his deal done until around the TDL.   It gives Allvin options too. 

 

We've learned that this management group sets a number and is willing to walk from it. So I don't think there's any real timing advantage for Brocks agent if this takes a while.

 

I can see this actually taking to the tdl to figure out. By then we will know a lot more about Lekkerimaki too. 

[Bobby James]

I think you see how Brock starts the season off. It doesn't need to be 40 goal pace, but if he looks solid still and is scoring then I would say they should start negotiating with him in like mid/late November. Get an idea of the price he is after. 

 

If the cap hit is manageable and he wants to take a little less to stay in Van then I say re-sign him. If it starts looking like high 7s or 8+ million I think it would be better to move him before the deadline for either a younger but NHL ready roster player or pick/prospects and then flip them at the deadline for a top 6 winger hopefully with some term that we can live with.