[discussion] extend or trade Boeser?

[Rypien-Punch]

keep him until we have a legit top 6 replacement 

[EastCoastExpress]

On 6/17/2024 at 11:48 PM, Hammertime said:

Yep.

 

Reves and Looch are considerably faster than Brock. 

 

 

 

Canucks need to get faster. This is the opportunity to cash out before free agency. 

I love this post... "speed" is Boesers "weakness" but he is 10 times the player than both.... ha ha.

Goals

Shooting %

Shots

Even Assists!

And before anyone says the 19 % accuracy is not sustainable, in the playoffs Boeser went up to 25% accuracy.

Canucks would be wise to sign him now, because after next season he will not be affordable.

And I want to buy a BB06 Jersey but waiting on that 8 yrs contract!

[Hammertime]

10 hours ago, EastCoastExpress said:

I love this post... "speed" is Boesers "weakness" but he is 10 times the player than both.... ha ha.

Goals

Shooting %

Shots

Even Assists!

And before anyone says the 19 % accuracy is not sustainable, in the playoffs Boeser went up to 25% accuracy.

Canucks would be wise to sign him now, because after next season he will not be affordable.

And I want to buy a BB06 Jersey but waiting on that 8 yrs contract!

LOL yes of course he's better that was never in dispute. 8 years on a guy whos one of the slowest players in the league at 27 won't age well.  But that just my opinion. Youre welcome to disagree.  

[EastCoastExpress]

2 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

LOL yes of course he's better that was never in dispute. 8 years on a guy whos one of the slowest players in the league at 27 won't age well.  But that just my opinion. Youre welcome to disagree.  

Ha... yeah I disagree but thats what is great here!

Someone else posted that Boeser is smart enough to not need to be fast. I agree with the empties.

Brock always gets to the open ice. Perhaps the defenders are "fast" and skate right by him????

I think Brock would help Petterson too, same way he plays with Miller. Be open, ready, have fast, accurate hands.

For a skilled shooter, fast hands and awareness are better than fast skates.

[EastCoastExpress]

11 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

LOL yes of course he's better that was never in dispute. 8 years on a guy whos one of the slowest players in the league at 27 won't age well.  But that just my opinion. Youre welcome to disagree.  

Hey hammer do a comparison to Ovechkin.... not sure how far back you can go, but Ovechkin has always been the 3rd man in, gliding softly to a weak area in offensive zone. Watch his goal highlight reels, Boeser is young still.

And look at JT Miller at age 27, and where he is going!

[EastCoastExpress]

19 hours ago, Rypien-Punch said:

keep him until we have a legit top 6 replacement 

Do we have ANY other 40 goal scorers?

Everyone was saying Guzpretzel was worth 9.5x8 but why does no one appreciate the potential in BB06.

How do you replace that? ok, give us a 50 goal guy, Rypien-Punch. sure, go for it. or even 2 25 goal guys.

[Hammertime]

47 minutes ago, EastCoastExpress said:

Do we have ANY other 40 goal scorers?

Everyone was saying Guzpretzel was worth 9.5x8 but why does no one appreciate the potential in BB06.

How do you replace that? ok, give us a 50 goal guy, Rypien-Punch. sure, go for it. or even 2 25 goal guys.

I'm glad we didn't spend on Guentzel. 

 

And LOL at comparing Brock to Ovi after one 40g campaign. Kuzzi put up 39. Ovi has 10 50g seasons and hits like a truck. I'm going to assume I'm a bit older generation. I've seen stars like Modano and Hull waine and they were far better than Brock in a much slower era where they were still servicable.

 

I don't so much care about whether so and so puts up 40+ I care about winning. Brock has a great IQ and is a fantastic teammate and person. He has a tremendous shot and I can understand your excitment. I'm a huge Brock fan don't get me wrong. I hope we win a cup while he is in his prime. Because I see him as a guy who right now is getting by on those qualities and it looks good right now but I see a cliff in about 4 years. It may be sooner but it won't be much later. 8 years will take him past retirement IMO. Hopefully with a cup for the Canucks and no Luongo penalty haha.   

 

 

[aGENT]

Extend and wait  to see if Lekkerimaki makes him expendable when he needs a raise, coming off his ELC. 

[Hammertime]

Just now, aGENT said:

Extend and wait  to see if Lekkerimaki makes him expendable when he needs a raise, coming off his ELC. 

That would be amazing and also I think premature. With term and possibly an extension for Brock if they do 8 years to bring the number down. First 2 years NMC next 4 MNTC 10 teams with the last 2 years NMC at this point if he's with us he's probably ROH.  

 

I would be very surprised if Lekkerimaki is ready to fill Brocks shoes in 25/26. I also don't think that is an immediate requirement. A scoring top 6 winger is a much easier role to fill than 2c or top 4D 

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

That would be amazing and also I think premature. With term and possibly an extension for Brock if they do 8 years to bring the number down. First 2 years NMC next 4 MNTC 10 teams with the last 2 years NMC at this point if he's with us he's probably ROH.  

 

I would be very surprised if Lekkerimaki is ready to fill Brocks shoes in 25/26. I also don't think that is an immediate requirement. A scoring top 6 winger is a much easier role to fill than 2c or top 4D 

 

Lekkerimaki's ELC won't expire until 26/27. Which means he has until the end of 27 for us to even start looking at moving Brock. We should have a pretty solid idea of what JL is/is becoming, by that point. If it isn't a younger, faster, cheaper Brock replacement, we can likely afford to keep both as JL will only require a cheaper bridge anyway. If he is those things, we move Brock for other holes/cap/assets.

 

Your welcome.

[Hammertime]

25 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Lekkerimaki's ELC won't expire until 26/27. Which means he has until the end of 27 for us to even start looking at moving Brock. We should have a pretty solid idea of what JL is/is becoming, by that point. If it isn't a younger, faster, cheaper Brock replacement, we can likely afford to keep both as JL will only require a cheaper bridge anyway. If he is those things, we move Brock for other holes/cap/assets.

 

Your welcome.

Issue is. There are only so many minutes for a player of that ilk to go around. Ones success will correspond with the others struggle. 

 

Take Brock off PP1 and Connor Garland out performs him in every metric in fewer and tougher mins. 

 

Lekkerimakis rise will lower Brocks quality of deployment. 

 

 

[IBatch]

20 hours ago, Hammertime said:

Issue is. There are only so many minutes for a player of that ilk to go around. Ones success will correspond with the others struggle. 

 

Take Brock off PP1 and Connor Garland out performs him in every metric in fewer and tougher mins. 

 

Lekkerimakis rise will lower Brocks quality of deployment. 

 

 

Brock and Miller were tasked playing against the leagues best last year.   Big difference matching a teams third line then it a the best of the best. 

[EastCoastExpress]

22 hours ago, Hammertime said:

Issue is. There are only so many minutes for a player of that ilk to go around. Ones success will correspond with the others struggle. 

 

Take Brock off PP1 and Connor Garland out performs him in every metric in fewer and tougher mins. 

 

Lekkerimakis rise will lower Brocks quality of deployment. 

 

 

Problem is Garly doesnt score like Brock. Boeser scores with accuracy while Garlund is puck smash lucky.

Garlund doesnt score on PP. they tried.

[EastCoastExpress]

23 hours ago, Hammertime said:

Issue is. There are only so many minutes for a player of that ilk to go around. Ones success will correspond with the others struggle. 

 

Take Brock off PP1 and Connor Garland out performs him in every metric in fewer and tougher mins. 

 

Lekkerimakis rise will lower Brocks quality of deployment. 

 

 

This reminds me of when we drafted Podz and Hogs.

I would LOVE lekk to take over Brock's position! Amazing! like, a Bedard type guy..... but Brock has a plus/minus of over 30, while Bedard is like negative the same.....

Just get realistic everyone.

Boeser is a $9M guy on any other team and we should be worried about losing him if management lets this go on till TDL.

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, EastCoastExpress said:

This reminds me of when we drafted Podz and Hogs.

I would LOVE lekk to take over Brock's position! Amazing! like, a Bedard type guy..... but Brock has a plus/minus of over 30, while Bedard is like negative the same.....

Just get realistic everyone.

Boeser is a $9M guy on any other team and we should be worried about losing him if management lets this go on till TDL.

Can't compare Brock to Bedard.   CHI's team sucks, last year, ours was excellent half the year, mediocre the other half.   Makes a difference for sure.     Brock won't get 9 on the open market unless he scores 55 goals.    If you take where he's averaged the past five years,  he's 80th in scoring.   That puts his value at 6.1.    

 

He hasn't been consistent, and has one very good  season.   Goals are valued higher than assists for sure.  That gives him a bump.    I've personally got his value to us at around 7.25-8.  Read a couple articles yesterday, one has him at 7-7.75 (Tage Thompson contract), the other about the same.   He's earned a modest raise.   Remember he's only earned his pay cheque once (covid year), and outshot it once  (last season).   Even with cap going up, and actually really mostly because it is going up, is he going to get a raise.   5% last year maybe 4-5% next season.  

 

If you believe The Hockey Writers and Canuck's Nation's ideas on this, there won't be a big market for Brock after a certain price (8).    There isn't a pedigree like Bedard.   McAan, Kempe, Marshmellow ... there are other guys who scored over 40 making 5 and change the past few years.    If Brock wants 9, and won't negotiate, he's as good as gone.   He's also got to really kill it next season, like 95 points and 55 goals to get into that sort of territory (Rhino, who also had a better pedigree). 

 

Others have mentioned his speed, I don't have any issue with his speed, he's a smart player.   If he wants full term, don't be shocked to see it start with a 6 either (8 years).   Because he's really only earned a 5-6 year deal to date at the big buck amount he's going to get (that's free agency for you!).    Centers (Kadri and Lindholm) got deals that took them to 37 (38?).   Don't think Brock has really earned a 7 year deal, and do think all these contracts won't look great much past the half way point.   That's hockey though. 

 

Personally think he won't be signed until around the all-star break.   At the earliest.   Allvin is going to make good and sure he's going to make it physically, as well as on the scoreboard, before offering him a Myers plus sort of deal but on the forward group.   Look at what Lindholm just got, and many considered that an overpayment (including our management).   He also scored 43 goals making 4.3... GMs will also look at the body of work. 

 

One simple way to look at it is Reinhardt got 8.65 x 8.    C/RW, 28 cup winning goal etc etc.    Brock isn't all that (yet anyways). 

 

Think he will get offered a 7 year deal, max 7.5- 8 million ( with a duplicate season).   Do think he will come in and do it again. 

Edited August 30 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 8/29/2024 at 1:02 AM, Hammertime said:

Issue is. There are only so many minutes for a player of that ilk to go around. Ones success will correspond with the others struggle. 

 

Take Brock off PP1 and Connor Garland out performs him in every metric in fewer and tougher mins. 

 

Lekkerimakis rise will lower Brocks quality of deployment. 

 

 

Lekkermaki won't be playing with Miller.   As far as PP1 goes, doubt he's going to bump Brock the next 3-4 years anyways.    Past that hopefully yes.   Brock will also be 32-33 then, nearing the end of his prime.    Lekkermaki might get some games this year.   Hope he does, and early to see where he's at.   Ideally we have both Brock and Lekkermaki at the same time and Lekkermaki forms another top line for us.    Last year Jt Miller and Brock carried the mail.    EP and Kuzmenko the year prior, so you know EPs got it in him.    Our cup aspirations kind of require it.    

 

Our PP also needs a re-vamp.   Setting EP up way too often with nothing going in the net.   Where would you put Lekkermaki?  Is he going to be the guy infront of the net instead of Brock?   EP plays the right hash marks ... Miller the left side.  Maybe give Brock a turn to wire them.    Our PP definitely took a hit since Horvat was feasting off tips infront of the net,  maybe EP can try that.  Brock's passing is pretty good too.   16 of Brock's 40 goals were on the PP.    So yes we can anticipate a regression once he's lost first unit time.    

 

The other thing, Brock was on a 50 goal pace ... 30 in 56, then 10 the final 26...Which is still over 30 (post all-star break) but a drop.   Picked it up in the post season when it mattered .. scoring some important goals for the team.  

 

A couple things about Brock.   He's the longest serving Canuck right now.    An all around great human and teammate.    He's for sure a top ten RW in the league right now, voted 8th last season.   No he's not in the same territory as MT, Marner, Kucherov, Stone, Rantanen,  Pasta,  Reinhardt, and Hyman (better all around game in TO) but he is right there with the next tier of guys, and you never know, maybe he does have it in him for 50 IF the PP is figured out, and IF EPs line takes some of the pressure off (starts getting assigned to play some best on best hockey).   

Edited August 30 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 8/29/2024 at 12:22 AM, aGENT said:

 

Lekkerimaki's ELC won't expire until 26/27. Which means he has until the end of 27 for us to even start looking at moving Brock. We should have a pretty solid idea of what JL is/is becoming, by that point. If it isn't a younger, faster, cheaper Brock replacement, we can likely afford to keep both as JL will only require a cheaper bridge anyway. If he is those things, we move Brock for other holes/cap/assets.

 

Your welcome.

Yep.  Best case Brock continues to improve and stays healthy, while Lekkermaki is on his ELC, and Lekkermaki, like Brock, makes an impact right away.   Trading Brock...well what did Horvat get us (and he was on a 45-50 goal pace as a center at the time).   Expect best case, a similar deal.   So a worse roster player (cap dump), a middling first at best and maybe a later round pick as well.    Plus the cap space.  To sign who exactly, to play with Miller?

 

To me that's more of a re-tool move, and others could follow.   Think they plan on Lekkermaki and Brock.   Eventually Lekkermaki gets his second contract, as you say, by then Brock is well into his next deal before we need to worry about that.   Personally think the succession plan for JT Miller and Brock to move down is pretty solid.    

 

 Sprong is a wild card for sure, could he bump someone from PP1?   That's way way way more likely, then Lekkermaki doing that ..:  the brass seems happy to wait and see before dolling out the big bucks.   Sprongs arguably the teams third best option on PP1.    Either way, our second unit for sure just got a big bump, a bigger one if Lekkermaki sticks and plays most of the season with EP.   Not expecting that though.   Way more likely he doesn't play any games at all. 

 

Edit:  As far as our cap space situation, it hinges on EP sinking or swimming at his new cap hit.   Brock earning 75% of his next deal, isn't as harsh as EP doing the same.    It's less messy.     We need another top four D.   But not at the cost of Miller getting scraps.    Brock and Miller have 5 years mostly together.   The dividends paid out last season, and it's realistic to expect that to continue for a few years.   

 

Debrusk instead of Heinen on JT Millers line sure would be something.   Sure hope Lekkermaki works out and we can see that. 

Edited August 30 by IBatch

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Trading Brock...well what did Horvat get us (and he was on a 45-50 goal pace as a center at the time).   Expect best case, a similar deal.   So a worse roster player (cap dump), a middling first at best and maybe a later round pick as well.    Plus the cap space.  To sign who exactly, to play with Miller?

 

Trading Horvat allowed us to acquire Hronek. Just saying.

[Bob Long]

44 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Trading Horvat allowed us to acquire Hronek. Just saying.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they are quietly working on something but if not I can see Brock not wanting to negotiate during the year.

 

We also have that weird fout nations break this year too, I could see them being the time when things happen one way or another.

[Rip The Mesh]

Boeser deserves three more years after this one. He's never looked better then he does right now. Who was really our number one go - to line last year?

Miller, Boeser and whoever else was put with them.

 

He's staying healthier now, then he ever has. The blood blisters were a brief thing at a bad time.   

[EastCoastExpress]

2 hours ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Boeser deserves three more years after this one. He's never looked better then he does right now. Who was really our number one go - to line last year?

Miller, Boeser and whoever else was put with them.

 

He's staying healthier now, then he ever has. The blood blisters were a brief thing at a bad time.   

Boeser is just starting to play the way he did in his Rookie season, when he was MVP in the all-star game.

Anyone who scores a hat-trick on Soros, in the playoffs, you sign him LONG....

https://www.nhl.com/video/brock-boeser-with-a-hat-trick-vs-nashville-predators-6351946517112

[EastCoastExpress]

8 hours ago, IBatch said:

Can't compare Brock to Bedard.   CHI's team sucks, last year, ours was excellent half the year, mediocre the other half.   Makes a difference for sure.     Brock won't get 9 on the open market unless he scores 55 goals.    If you take where he's averaged the past five years,  he's 80th in scoring.   That puts his value at 6.1.    

 

 

I need to clarify, I wasnt comparing Brock to Bedard, I was saying people are thinking Lekk is the next Bedard, and can be Brock's replacement.

Perhaps, this is true, however that happens 7 or 8 years from now.

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Trading Horvat allowed us to acquire Hronek. Just saying.

Yes we filled a hole from something JB couldn't draft.   Now that's extended for 8 years.   It really comes down to what his cap hit is (like most things).   QHs and maybe Demko for sure are their long view plans.   Brock could be this teams version of Patrick Sharp.    It's hard to say.   Maybe not.   We need another top four D, a 3C...and well if Brock is traded a quality winger. 

[EastCoastExpress]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Yes we filled a hole from something JB couldn't draft.   Now that's extended for 8 years.   It really comes down to what his cap hit is (like most things).   QHs and maybe Demko for sure are their long view plans.   Brock could be this teams version of Patrick Sharp.    It's hard to say.   Maybe not.   We need another top four D, a 3C...and well if Brock is traded a quality winger. 

even the people last year that wanted to trade Boeser were out to lunch. He already was a "patrick sharp" to the team and is only going to get better since getting out of the injuries. I dont know how you trade Boeser and get a quality winger back who can do BB06 stuff.

[Rypien-Punch]

On 8/28/2024 at 6:53 PM, EastCoastExpress said:

Do we have ANY other 40 goal scorers?

Everyone was saying Guzpretzel was worth 9.5x8 but why does no one appreciate the potential in BB06.

How do you replace that? ok, give us a 50 goal guy, Rypien-Punch. sure, go for it. or even 2 25 goal guys.

I would rather put his salary cap towards a top 4 D. Its not just about an individuals goal output for a team. If the team is better defensively, harder to play against, and can go deeper in the playoffs then that has better overall value for the team than one guy who can put the puck in the net. 

It will be easier to find guys who can score up front on the wings than guys who can control the whole game from the  D zone. Training camp should tell where the new guys are at and some of the up and coming prospects. 

 

I would rather we traded Boeser for Marcus Pettersson and create more balance with our D lines 

 

Joshua Miller Sprong 

Debrusk Pettersson Garland

Heinen Suter Hoglander

PDG Blueger Sherwood 

Aman 

 

Hughes Hronek 

Pettersson Myers

Soucy Desjarnais 

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