[discussion] extend or trade Boeser?

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Hammertime said:

 

Sign for less? Was that when he held out until Sept 21st to sign a contract with a terrible QO.

 

Or when he leaned on that QO and signed for 6.7m after 3 seasons of mediocraty. 

 

Then followed up his "earned" payday with 18g and a -20.

 

He's never taken any kind of discount. What makes you think he will now? 

 

I agree with @IBatch his career body of work has his value around 6m maybe 7 with inflation x 5 or 6 years.  He's clearly going to try to get max $$ in FA and why shouldn't he? If theres any indication that he's going to test UFA I wish him well on his merry way and hope that we return good assets on him that will improve our team for years to come. 

 

Anyone thinking he's going to sign some sweetheart deal with us. I'm curious what makes you think that?

Think he's going to get a fair shake.  There's a couple interesting article's (googled) on the subject.    Agree with this, if he's going the Horvat route then as you say and some others, trade him.   Actually been a fan since his rookie year and get the body of work and development was seriously effected by freak injuries, and the loss (grief and depression) over losing his Dad.   For that reason bullish on his odds of repeating something like last year and settling into a string of 60-75 point seasons.   Which on a top line, for sure has value.   Goals are weighed higher than assist's.    Also think he's only earned his paycheque twice in his career.  

 

  And glad he was bridged and JB didn't sign him long term to an RFA deal he'd of had little chance of matching.   So far, he's had two 3 year deals.    One article i've read was very reasonable, covered these things.  Also pointed out averaging around 81 over the past 3 years puts him in the 6.1 bracket.    Then adds goals and what you've done for us lately, and cap increases get factored in too.    Suggesting nobody should freak out and assume 40 plus goals equals 8 plus, even with half a season of repeated performance.   JT Miller also benefited from Brock's breakout.    

 

Allvin won't open the wallet too wide either, we've seen that with Horvat.   And he's got options (no trade protection).   Hopefully Brock comes to camp and picks up where he left off (for the clubs and his own sake).   And they do a deal that works for both.    9-10% is a safe increase (this years cap and next years).    That's where a lot of his pay day will come from. 

[Hammertime]

53 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Think he's going to get a fair shake.  There's a couple interesting article's (googled) on the subject.    Agree with this, if he's going the Horvat route then as you say and some others, trade him.   Actually been a fan since his rookie year and get the body of work and development was seriously effected by freak injuries, and the loss (grief and depression) over losing his Dad.   For that reason bullish on his odds of repeating something like last year and settling into a string of 60-75 point seasons.   Which on a top line, for sure has value.   Goals are weighed higher than assist's.    Also think he's only earned his paycheque twice in his career.  

 

  And glad he was bridged and JB didn't sign him long term to an RFA deal he'd of had little chance of matching.   So far, he's had two 3 year deals.    One article i've read was very reasonable, covered these things.  Also pointed out averaging around 81 over the past 3 years puts him in the 6.1 bracket.    Then adds goals and what you've done for us lately, and cap increases get factored in too.    Suggesting nobody should freak out and assume 40 plus goals equals 8 plus, even with half a season of repeated performance.   JT Miller also benefited from Brock's breakout.    

 

Allvin won't open the wallet too wide either, we've seen that with Horvat.   And he's got options (no trade protection).   Hopefully Brock comes to camp and picks up where he left off (for the clubs and his own sake).   And they do a deal that works for both.    9-10% is a safe increase (this years cap and next years).    That's where a lot of his pay day will come from. 

100%

If you are correct, i'll be thrilled. 

Edited September 2 by Hammertime

[Northern_Nuck]

20 hours ago, Rip The Mesh said:

I don't think so. He's a Canuck to the core and will take less then his (what would be his market value). The Money will not be the issue.

His market value will be at the Mitch Marner level of salary. Rantanen level WILL be a pay cut. But then again everyone here thought Petey was re-signing for 9 a year ago

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Northern_Nuck said:

His market value will be at the Mitch Marner level of salary. Rantanen level WILL be a pay cut. But then again everyone here thought Petey was re-signing for 9 a year ago

Boeser will extend during the season. Cap allocation will be 7.5

[Northern_Nuck]

5 hours ago, Alflives said:

Boeser will extend during the season. Cap allocation will be 7.5

 

 you were the one yelling the loudest that Petey was going 8x8.5

 

 so with your margin of error history, Brock is going for 8.75.  Your empties say… sober up. 

[Bobby James]

I think they sort out Boeser's contract before the deadline. If they can afford him I think they'll keep him. The team seems to like him and if he can continue to score 30 and generate offense he'll be doing his job. 

 

Price will be the main factor, but just dunno if I see Brock trying to get to 9 million or something like that. Maybe I'll be proven wrong. 

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, Northern_Nuck said:

 

 you were the one yelling the loudest that Petey was going 8x8.5

 

 so with your margin of error history, Brock is going for 8.75.  Your empties say… sober up. 

Don’t blame Alf. It’s the Empties. 

[higgyfan]

9 hours ago, Northern_Nuck said:

His market value will be at the Mitch Marner level of salary. Rantanen level WILL be a pay cut. But then again everyone here thought Petey was re-signing for 9 a year ago

 

Imo, Marner is a better player that Brock.  He has put up a point a game, wheras Boeser hasn't

a single season at a point a game.  Marner is a better skater and plays a solid d game.  Take away

 Brock's 40g season last year and he does not compare to Marner in any way.  This is not to

criticize Boeser; I am only pointing out that Marner has already had the big -11m contract, whereas Brock will likely get aroud 8m in his next contract.  PA will not be simply looking at his last season as baseline for BB performance during his time as a Canuck. 

Edited September 3 by higgyfan

[IBatch]

On 9/3/2024 at 4:03 PM, Northern_Nuck said:

 

 you were the one yelling the loudest that Petey was going 8x8.5

 

 so with your margin of error history, Brock is going for 8.75.  Your empties say… sober up. 

Think you've got it the other way around.  Nobody was saying EP was signing for under ten.    MT was brought up as a starting point.   Then add taxes and that he plays center, and a 5 % increase in cap.   It was actually the other way, some were saying 13!   And 12 plus was common.     You bet there were quite a few of us advocating for the same deal Barkov got ... plus 5% for cap going up (550k), plus you can bet some for taxes.   For perspective that's Bobrovksy takes home more at 10. 

 

As for Brock, we have nothing to worry about.    Like the folks writing articles about him, he's not getting or due for a huge raise.    The Rantanen comps are simply goofy and way out of line with Brock, so is Marner.   Skinner would is getting a little closer, and we all know how terrible a deal that turned out to be including Buffalo.    If Brock gets 8.75, he's going to have to be at a 50 goal pace leading into the TDL.    Possible, but unlikely.   He's not getting more than Horvat did.   Another overpaid UFA.  He's also not getting more than Lindholm, a center.   

 

His comps come in at the 7-8 range of recently signed guys.   Given his past 3 year average, he's 80th, and his cap hit would be 6.1.    He gets a bump for goals weighing higher.   Also gets a bump for salary going up 5% last year and likely 4-5% again.     Then there are taxes.   Gets a boost there.   Personally see 8 as the higher range, and that's on a 7 year not an 8 year deal.   8 could see it as low as 7.25. 

Edited September 7 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 9/3/2024 at 6:24 PM, Bobby James said:

I think they sort out Boeser's contract before the deadline. If they can afford him I think they'll keep him. The team seems to like him and if he can continue to score 30 and generate offense he'll be doing his job. 

 

Price will be the main factor, but just dunno if I see Brock trying to get to 9 million or something like that. Maybe I'll be proven wrong. 

I'm pretty sure, if his ask is anywhere close to that, we will be trading him.  Lindholm scored 43 as a center.   And was offered 7 x 7.    Ended up getting close to 8 in Boston, top center in his UFA class, and Boston needing him badly for sure played into that.    RWs are more common than LW's.   At least the quantity of quality, historically too.    Brock's outperformed his contracts once.   And parred it one other time (outside his ELC).   It's not like he hasn't earned a lot for what he's provided to date.    Full term for Brock is awfully risky.   Personally feel he's earned 7.5-8 x 5-6.   We will see what Allvin comes up with, but given what others are getting, won't be shocked to see him traded, or Allvin having to give in and similar AVV but 7-8 years.   This is also coming from a fan, and one of a few that didn't give up on him either.   JR/Allvin like to work in pairs.   A JT Miller/Brock anchor is a solid one. 

Edited September 7 by IBatch

[qwijjibo]

Vancouver is in win now mode. Depending on how the season goes If Boeser isn't extended it wouldn't surprise me to see him kept as a "own rental" and walking for free.  

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, qwijjibo said:

Vancouver is in win now mode. Depending on how the season goes If Boeser isn't extended it wouldn't surprise me to see him kept as a "own rental" and walking for free.  

Yup. Then the club uses the cap space to sign a UFA they believe is an upgrade. At least Boeser will get to celebrate winning the Cup with the Canucks June 2025 before he moves on in July. 

[EastCoastExpress]

On 9/3/2024 at 8:08 PM, higgyfan said:

 

Imo, Marner is a better player that Brock.  He has put up a point a game, wheras Boeser hasn't

a single season at a point a game.  Marner is a better skater and plays a solid d game.  Take away

 Brock's 40g season last year and he does not compare to Marner in any way.  This is not to

criticize Boeser; I am only pointing out that Marner has already had the big -11m contract, whereas Brock will likely get aroud 8m in his next contract.  PA will not be simply looking at his last season as baseline for BB performance during his time as a Canuck. 

Boeser gets a point per game in the playoffs, where is Marner in the playoffs?

Actually Marner is usually better than this past one. But A leaf, so doesnt compare to Boeser And way overpaid because he is a Leaf.

Edited September 7 by EastCoastExpress

[Alflives]

28 minutes ago, EastCoastExpress said:

Boeser gets a point per game in the playoffs, where is Marner in the playoffs?

Actually Marner is usually better than this past one. But A leaf, so doesnt compare to Boeser And way overpaid because he is a Leaf.

Habs now have Laine, who is making 8.5 x two more years. He’s way overpaid. Boeser would be around that number and a long term. And he’s a far superior player to Laine. Are the Habs purposely collecting the league’s worst contracts? 

[higgyfan]

37 minutes ago, EastCoastExpress said:

Boeser gets a point per game in the playoffs, where is Marner in the playoffs?

Actually Marner is usually better than this past one. But A leaf, so doesnt compare to Boeser And way overpaid because he is a Leaf.

 

Good argument there, ECE.  Alf's bottles approve 100% 

[EastCoastExpress]

17 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Habs now have Laine, who is making 8.5 x two more years. He’s way overpaid. Boeser would be around that number and a long term. And he’s a far superior player to Laine. Are the Habs purposely collecting the league’s worst contracts? 

Habs live so close to Toronto they think anything under 10M is a cheap guy

[Hammertime]

1 hour ago, EastCoastExpress said:

Boeser gets a point per game in the playoffs, where is Marner in the playoffs?

Actually Marner is usually better than this past one. But A leaf, so doesnt compare to Boeser And way overpaid because he is a Leaf.

Boeser playoff points 23 in 29gp 0.79PPG

Marner playoff points 50 in 57gp 0.88PPG

 

Not sure what youre on about. The players aren't even comparable. Marner has exceeded PPG 6 seasons running. 

 

 

 

 

[EastCoastExpress]

6 hours ago, Hammertime said:

Boeser playoff points 23 in 29gp 0.79PPG

Marner playoff points 50 in 57gp 0.88PPG

 

Not sure what youre on about. The players aren't even comparable. Marner has exceeded PPG 6 seasons running. 

 

 

 

 

As Boeser is just ramping up, I was comparing the last playoffs..

Brock kicks ass.

https://edge.nhl.com/en/compare/skaters/20232024-playoffs-8478483-20232024-playoffs-8478444

[qwijjibo]

19 minutes ago, EastCoastExpress said:

As Boeser is just ramping up, I was comparing the last playoffs..

Brock kicks ass.

https://edge.nhl.com/en/compare/skaters/20232024-playoffs-8478483-20232024-playoffs-8478444

So you're cherrypicking stats that aren't actually accurate when taken in the big picture 

[EastCoastExpress]

11 minutes ago, qwijjibo said:

So you're cherrypicking stats that aren't actually accurate when taken in the big picture 

Boeser in his rookie year and Boeser last year are the stats you should look at. Boeser will only get better.

The only way Marner gets better is if Leafs retain 50% and we let him come play Petey's right wing.

Edited September 8 by EastCoastExpress

[qwijjibo]

9 minutes ago, EastCoastExpress said:

Boeser in his rookie year and Boeser last year are the stats you should look at. Boeser will only get better.

The only way Marner gets better is if Leafs retain 50% and we let him come play Petey's right wing.

Boeser last seadon scored at an unsustainable shooting percentage. It could easily be an outlier season and he'll  regress back to his norm.  You can't just cherry picking his best 2 seasons and declare he's a better player than the guy who has consistently outperformed him year after year 

[Hammertime]

8 minutes ago, EastCoastExpress said:

Boeser in his rookie year and Boeser last year are the stats you should look at. Boeser will only get better.

You would call 2 slices of bread with nothing in the middle a sandwich. 

[EastCoastExpress]

1 minute ago, qwijjibo said:

Boeser last seadon scored at an unsustainable shooting percentage. It could easily be an outlier season and he'll  regress back to his norm.  You can't just cherry picking his best 2 seasons and declare he's a better player than the guy who has consistently outperformed him year after year 

Better VALUE player. Toronto paid him almost 11M for past 5 seasons, one year left.

I hope Boeser keeps beating the crap out of all the regression fans.

I hope the Canucks keep beating the crap out of all the Canucks regression fans.

[EastCoastExpress]

4 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

You would call 2 slices of bread with nothing in the middle a sandwich. 

If there was a 16 ounce steak under them and bacon on top.

[qwijjibo]

2 minutes ago, EastCoastExpress said:

Better VALUE player. Toronto paid him almost 11M for past 5 seasons, one year left.

I hope Boeser keeps beating the crap out of all the regression fans.

I hope the Canucks keep beating the crap out of all the Canucks regression fans.

Lol. Moving the goalposts doesnt help your argument.   Marner has been over a point per game every year since his 3rd season. He's put up 90+points 3 times. He's also managed to stay mostly healthy.In that period Boeser has never been over a ppg, has hovered around 50 points per season and missed big blocks of games every year except last year. I think the player thst puts up far more points and dresses for far more games is a better value regardless of the cap hit