[Discussion]Too much hype around Necas

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

But “it’s a hard deal to do”..:

 

Why is it every time the Canucks are in on a trade the media is quick to jump in and act like the Canucks never have anything of value?

 

The deal is actually not that hard to do. They wanna trade him and we have interest and pieces they want. 
 

Might involve some other pieces but I have no doubt if they wanna get something done they can.

Yeah it's always like that until we pull off a trade out of the blue.  Multiple times this season.  I remember media pricing Zadorov so high, but then we swoop in and grab him for pennies.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

Honestly if the Canucks and Hurricanes were discussing a trade I am sure Hronek would not do it, as in he is most likely not available for trade. Vancouver will create a major hole in their defense that they only just resolved over a year ago by dealing away Hronek.

 

Sure Necas is a nice piece and could really take off in a top six role but it would be a mistake to move one of the club's top defensemen. 

 

Further, we all Hronek coming back at just over $7m or think its too much. The cap will only continue to rise and the player and his agent need to look at this. He is entering his prime years and now is the time to secure his main deal in his career.

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

Honestly if the Canucks and Hurricanes were discussing a trade I am sure Hronek would not do it, as in he is most likely not available for trade. Vancouver will create a major hole in their defense that they only just resolved over a year ago by dealing away Hronek.

 

Sure Necas is a nice piece and could really take off in a top six role but it would be a mistake to move one of the club's top defensemen. 

 

Further, we all Hronek coming back at just over $7m or think its too much. The cap will only continue to rise and the player and his agent need to look at this. He is entering his prime years and now is the time to secure his main deal in his career.

Yup, a $7.25M contract with an $87.7M upper cap limit would be the equivalent of a $6.7M contract when the cap hits $95M (likely only 2 or 3 years from now).

[DeNiro]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Yeah it's always like that until we pull off a trade out of the blue.  Multiple times this season.  I remember media pricing Zadorov so high, but then we swoop in and grab him for pennies.

Exactly.

 

Although it could be Hoglander involved, which I’m sure some fans wouldn’t like, but we definitely have the pieces.

[HKSR]

Just now, DeNiro said:

Exactly.

 

Although it could be Hoglander involved, which I’m sure some fans wouldn’t like, but we definitely have the pieces.

That'd be a tough pill to swallow if Hoglander is involved, but I do believe Necas' ceiling is quite a bit higher than Hogs. 

[DeNiro]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

That'd be a tough pill to swallow if Hoglander is involved, but I do believe Necas' ceiling is quite a bit higher than Hogs. 

But that’s the cost it would likely take.

 

Forget top prospects I don’t buy that for a second. Carolina would love a cheap productive player like Hoglander.

 

And you’re right it’s all about ceiling. Hoglander is a great middle 6 support player but I don’t see him being elite. Necas on the other hand looks like he could be an elite play driver in his prime.

 

It’s like comparing Arviddson to Forsberg. I’ll take Filip Forsberg all day long.

 

 

Edited June 4 by DeNiro

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

But that’s the cost it would likely take.

 

Forget top prospects I don’t buy that for a second. Carolina would love a cheap productive player like Hoglander.

 

And you’re right it’s all about ceiling. Hoglander is a great middle 6 support player but I don’t see him being elite. Necas on the other hand looks like he could be an elite play driver in his prime.

 

It’s like comparing Arviddson to Forsberg. I’ll take Filip Forsberg all day long.

 

 

Yeah agreed.  I'd include Hoglander if it meant we land Necas.  IMO, Necas has a higher ceiling, but he's also got the size advantage as well.  I watched Carolina these playoffs and I loved how Necas drives the slot at will.

[Curmudgeon]

36 minutes ago, Nucker67 said:

I suspect if Kekalainen manages the Canes, they're going downhill and headed for a bit of a rebuild. 

 

I have a hunch that Eric Tulsky will have the interim label removed and will become the General Manager in Carolina. 

[CanucksFan26]

I’m gonna fly in here with a sense of optimism. Necas is very skilled and I think a change of scenery could have a “JT Miller” effect. Obviously I don’t expect him to be Miller or play that style, but Necas as a player with only one season averaging 18 minutes a game put up 71 points. In a different system with better linemates and more minutes, I do think he could become a big time player. I also think if he came to Vancouver he would be our 3rd or 4th best forward and I actually think we’d be a great fit. I hope a deal is out there. What also hasn’t really been discussed is that missing piece on our power play line. Necas could be that and it would be huge. Plus he is capable of playing the PK which is always a nice bonus. 
 

I would be open to a deal revolving around Podz or Hoglander and another piece or two. I’d say Willander and Lekkerimaki should be off limits but otherwise I’m open with prospects. 

[Bob Long]

without getting Necas + either Morrow or JK back as well, it doesn't make any sense to move Hronek. 

 

I don't buy for a second Hronek isn't enough either, he's a legit top 4 RHD which they have exactly none of under contract. 

[Smashian Kassian]

I like Necas & think he is a right type of player to target, 24-25 & has elite offensive skills. 

 

The problem with trading Hronek is it creates such a big hole, and Elliotte said he doesn't think that's enough anyways.

 

Hoglander + 1st maybe as a starting point but it's looking like we just don't have the assets.

[The Duke]

I’d still love to land Necas and while he’s due a big raise, locking him up at 7 could be a steal long term. Besides Hronek, I’m not sure what we offer that other teams can’t easily beat, though.  And yeah, even that just opens up a Pesce sized hole on the top pair.

 

Sticking with the Canes, I wonder if Teravainen would be willing to come play on Petey’s wing for 6.5 x5 or something like that.

 

Or maybe go with Kane instead of the Canes for scoring pop.

 

Id still love Chandler Stephenson.  Then there’s old man Toffoli.

 

Might be easier to go UFA route if any of those guys are open to it. 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, The Duke said:

I’d still love to land Necas and while he’s due a big raise, locking him up at 7 could be a steal long term. Besides Hronek, I’m not sure what we offer that other teams can’t easily beat, though.  And yeah, even that just opens up a Pesce sized hole on the top pair.

 

Sticking with the Canes, I wonder if Teravainen would be willing to come play on Petey’s wing for 6.5 x5 or something like that.

 

Or maybe go with Kane instead of the Canes for scoring pop.

 

Id still love Chandler Stephenson.  Then there’s old man Toffoli.

 

Might be easier to go UFA route if any of those guys are open to it. 

 

Id rather see a move around kotkaniemi, morrow and a pick 

[Bob Long]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Id rather see a move around kotkaniemi, morrow and a pick 

 

that would leave us more room to go for a free agent partner with Petey.

 

I'm just not convinced thats a good enough return for a guy that would instantly be their #1RHD. 

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

that would leave us more room to go for a free agent partner with Petey.

 

I'm just not convinced thats a good enough return for a guy that would instantly be their #1RHD. 

 

Depends on the pick, imo.  If they give up their first, I'd be ok with it.  That first could be used in another deal used to make the team better now..........for another top 4 dman or top 6 winger.

[The Duke]

23 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Id rather see a move around kotkaniemi, morrow and a pick 

I’d be into something like that. Especially if they retained a little on Kotkaniemi and/or the pick being a first.
 

Could be a massive steal - and Morrow / Willander would have the right side set for the next decade.

 

Still feels like we’re at least one more big windfall away from being true contenders.  I’d like to see a big swing, but taking a step back next year doesn’t seem to be what management wants to do.

Edited June 5 by The Duke

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, The Duke said:

I’d be into something like that. Especially if they retained a little on Kotkaniemi and/or the pick being a first.
 

Could be a massive steal - and Morrow / Willander would have the right side set for the next decade.

 

Still feels like we’re at least one more big windfall away from being true contenders.  I’d like to see a bit swing, but taking a step back next year doesn’t seem to be what management wants to do so far. 

 

I said this about Boeser, about Miller and about Petey when all were looking for new deals........to really push this team forward, they need a deal where one player goes out and multiple good pieces come in and where they get cap flexibility.  

 

People say "oh you hate this player or hate that player", but really it's those kinds of deals that take good teams and push them into the higher tiers of the league.

[DeNiro]

23 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Id rather see a move around kotkaniemi, morrow and a pick 

If the goal is to improve our roster that does nothing to accomplish that.

 

We take on another potentially bad contract for a guy who’s almost 24 and showing signs of regressing.

 

If they can’t afford Hronek trade him for picks or prospects and use all that potential cap on players we actually need. Namely D men and a top 6 forward.

 

[CanucksFan26]

22 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Id rather see a move around kotkaniemi, morrow and a pick 

The problem I have with acquiring Kotkaniemi is that if he doesn’t at some point develop into a legit top 6 forward, he’s going to be a very overpaid bottom 6 guy for the next several years. He’s a good player but my concern is he’s essentially had 6 years (shortened years also) to develop and his career high season is 43 points. He does a lot of things very well, but realistically we can probably just bring back Blueger at half the cost to do the exact same thing. If someone could assure me Kotkaniemi becomes a bonafide 60 point guy with his two way ability then I’m all in. 

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I said this about Boeser, about Miller and about Petey when all were looking for new deals........to really push this team forward, they need a deal where one player goes out and multiple good pieces come in and where they get cap flexibility.  

 

People say "oh you hate this player or hate that player", but really it's those kinds of deals that take good teams and push them into the higher tiers of the league.

I've seen you state this several times, so I'm actually curious... the top teams the past several years in the league would arguably be teams like TBL, COL, CAR, FLA, VGK... what big trades did those teams make that had a top core player be moved out and several smaller pieces come back in for cap flexibility?

[AlexanderM]

9 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

If the goal is to improve our roster that does nothing to accomplish that.

 

We take on another potentially bad contract for a guy who’s almost 24 and showing signs of regressing.

 

If they can’t afford Hronek trade him for picks or prospects and use all that potential cap on players we actually need. Namely D men and a top 6 forward.

 

Or make a trade that will help, either way, I have no problem if they move Hronek, it's all about the deal. It's a somethings gotta give situation.

[DeNiro]

3 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I've seen you state this several times, so I'm actually curious... the top teams the past several years in the league would arguably be teams like TBL, COL, CAR, FLA, VGK... what big trades did those teams make that had a top core player be moved out and several smaller pieces come back in for cap flexibility?

If anything it was those teams that sent out multiple pieces to acquire core players.

 

Toews in Col

Burns in Carolina

Tkachuk, Bennett, Reinhart in Florida

Stone in Vegas

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

If the goal is to improve our roster that does nothing to accomplish that.

 

We take on another potentially bad contract for a guy who’s almost 24 and showing signs of regressing.

 

If they can’t afford Hronek trade him for picks or prospects and use all that potential cap on players we actually need. Namely D men and a top 6 forward.

 

 

The goal should not just be good for the next couple years, but for the next decade

 

He took a step back this year, but 18 goals, 43 points last year and 51% in the dot during his Carolina year and ill take that fit a 3C anyday, if they got him back to last year, at least, then he's playing to his contract........and that doesn't seem like a big stretch.  If they can develop him, he's their best shot at a succession plan for miller.

 

As far as his contract goes, if he gets back on track, he's on par with his deal, if he grows and develops, it could be a friggin steal as he's cost controlled for a long time........then you get cap flexibility

 

Morrow and TW become your top 2 Rd for a decade or more.

 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

The goal should not just be good for the next couple years, but for the next decade

 

He took a step back this year, but 18 goals, 43 points last year and 51% in the dot during his Carolina year and ill take that fit a 3C anyday, if they got him back to last year, at least, then he's playing to his contract........and that doesn't seem like a big stretch.  If they can develop him, he's their best shot at a succession plan for miller.

 

As far as his contract goes, if he gets back on track, he's on par with his deal, if he grows and develops, it could be a friggin steal as he's cost controlled for a long time........then you get cap flexibility

 

Morrow and TW become your top 2 Rd for a decade or more.

 

Lot of what ifs for a proven player in Hronek.

 

Kotkeniemi has shown no signs that he will develop into a top 6 so that’s a lot of hopium there.

Third line center is not our biggest need right now. Any potential Hronek trade would have to be made in order to improve our top 6 or our D.

[N4ZZY]

34 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

that would leave us more room to go for a free agent partner with Petey.

 

I'm just not convinced thats a good enough return for a guy that would instantly be their #1RHD. 

How is a 26 year old RHD worth less than a 25 year old winger? We shouldn’t have to add if we’re trading away a premium asset in a RHD. Fuck Carolina. Look elsewhere.