BigTramFan Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Trade 1: To NSH: Hronek rights To VAN: Fabbro + 2024 2nd round pick (TBL) + 2024 2nd round pick (WPG) Why? NSH looking for top pairing RD and Hronek asking too much for VAN. Trade 2: To OTT: Fabbro To VAN: Kastelic Why? OTT need a young defensively responsible RD. VAN need size in bottom 6. Kastelic is 6'3", 210 lb, RH center, career FO=56% Trade 3: To CHI: Garland + Mikheyev + 2024 4th round pick (VAN) To VAN: Future considerations Why? VAN dumping cap. CHI get 2 legit NHL'ers. Garland is great but VAN needs more size and goal scoring in top 6. Trade 4: To CBJ: Raty + 2024 3rd round pick (VAN) To VAN: Voronkov + 2024 4th round pick (CBJ) Why? Voronkov has potential to be a playoff monster. 23 years old, 6'5" 240lb, can play PP and PK, scored 18 goals last season. Signings: Guentzel - $9.5m x 7 Debrusk - $4m x 4 Joshua - $3.75m x 4 Blueger $2m x 3 Matt Roy - $6m x 7 Myers - $3m x 2 Hakanpaa - $2.5m x 2 Cole - $2.5m x 1 Friedman - $775k x 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Not bad, my take would be, Trade #1, I would want their 1st and maybe a 3rd round pick in exchange for Hronek. He's worth it, anything less is underpay. Trade #3, I think if you separate out Garland, after his performance this year, he was a really valuable part of our team, he has trade value. I would try and package Mikheyev with 4th and maybe a 3rd from 2026. Trade #4, I don't think Raty and a 3rd will get you Voronkov and a 4th considering one guy has already proved he can put up 18 goals per season in middle 6 and the other hasn't shown he can transition to the NHL. Guentzel I think that Allvin and JR could use reputation to get him here about 8, maybe 8.5. I'd want him around what we pay Miller. Debrusk, I think is closer to 5 million on the open market. Cole, I'd let walk and look at younger options. He was solid earlier in the year but really faded after Xmas. If Friedman will accept that, it's okay based on his ability, he was a good fill in. I think the others are reasonable value wise, but other things to keep in mind for the coming season: Podkolzin will be on the team this coming year and likely Bains as well. Before he was injured, Brisebois was on the team and I don't think there's any reason to expect that to change next camp. Others who will really push, I think management see Karlsson as ready, Sasson could really surprise in camp, he had a really strong season in Abbotsford and although I thing they want Kudryavtsev to get a year in Abbotsford, he hasn't looked out of place in camp. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 No to trading Hronek for such a poor return. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 23 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: Not bad, my take would be, Trade #1, I would want their 1st and maybe a 3rd round pick in exchange for Hronek. He's worth it, anything less is underpay. 12 minutes ago, Alflives said: No to trading Hronek for such a poor return. I mean I'd love to get more for Hronek. Hronek was worth a 1st + 2nd when he traded for him (i.e. cap hit of $4.4m with 1.5 season left). His value hasn't increased, since his performance in VAN has been consistent with what he did in DET. Now he is going to command $7m+ and so I don't think any team is paying the 1st + 2nd pick value for him. You might get 1 x 1st or 2 x 2nds, imo. Either way, I think we should move him for assets because we can't be paying him more than $6.5m 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 (edited) 1 hour ago, BigTramFan said: Trade 1: To NSH: Hronek rights To VAN: Fabbro + 2024 2nd round pick (TBL) + 2024 2nd round pick (WPG) Why? NSH looking for top pairing RD and Hronek asking too much for VAN. Trade 2: To OTT: Fabbro To VAN: Kastelic Why? OTT need a young defensively responsible RD. VAN need size in bottom 6. Kastelic is 6'3", 210 lb, RH center, career FO=56% Trade 3: To CHI: Garland + Mikheyev + 2024 4th round pick (VAN) To VAN: Future considerations Why? VAN dumping cap. CHI get 2 legit NHL'ers. Garland is great but VAN needs more size and goal scoring in top 6. Trade 4: To CBJ: Raty + 2024 3rd round pick (VAN) To VAN: Voronkov + 2024 4th round pick (CBJ) Why? Voronkov has potential to be a playoff monster. 23 years old, 6'5" 240lb, can play PP and PK, scored 18 goals last season. Signings: Guentzel - $9.5m x 7 Debrusk - $4m x 4 Joshua - $3.75m x 4 Blueger $2m x 3 Matt Roy - $6m x 7 Myers - $3m x 2 Hakanpaa - $2.5m x 2 Cole - $2.5m x 1 Friedman - $775k x 2 I think we can get more for Hronek and I would move Garland out of trade #3 and swap him with Raty in trade #4. Otherwise, I like your targets Edited May 31 by fuzzy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 28 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: Trade #3, I think if you separate out Garland, after his performance this year, he was a really valuable part of our team, he has trade value. I would try and package Mikheyev with 4th and maybe a 3rd from 2026. I don't think Mikheyev gets moved for anything less than a 2nd round pick sweetener. And that is about where I value Garland, so was trying to avoid trading too many picks away. 28 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: Trade #4, I don't think Raty and a 3rd will get you Voronkov and a 4th considering one guy has already proved he can put up 18 goals per season in middle 6 and the other hasn't shown he can transition to the NHL. Yeah maybe. Raty has the pedigree and higher ceiling. Maybe we have to add to trade 4 to get Voronkov. I would strongly consider adding. 28 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: Podkolzin will be on the team this coming year and likely Bains as well. He's on my projected roster as 4LW 29 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: Cole, I'd let walk and look at younger options. He was solid earlier in the year but really faded after Xmas. If Friedman will accept that, it's okay based on his ability, he was a good fill in. Cole is a solid vet, brings experience and versatility. Think he was injured in the playoffs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 3 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: I mean I'd love to get more for Hronek. Hronek was worth a 1st + 2nd when he traded for him (i.e. cap hit of $4.4m with 1.5 season left). His value hasn't increased, since his performance in VAN has been consistent with what he did in DET. Now he is going to command $7m+ and so I don't think any team is paying the 1st + 2nd pick value for him. You might get 1 x 1st or 2 x 2nds, imo. Either way, I think we should move him for assets because we can't be paying him more than $6.5m Absolutely Hronek’s value has gone up. He’s a top pairing right shot D just entering his prime. He’s a very rare commodity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 Just now, Alflives said: Absolutely Hronek’s value has gone up. He’s a top pairing right shot D just entering his prime. He’s a very rare commodity. His production was higher in DET than in VAN. And his cost is about to double. That doesn't scream an increase in value to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 1 minute ago, BigTramFan said: I don't think Mikheyev gets moved for anything less than a 2nd round pick sweetener. And that is about where I value Garland, so was trying to avoid trading too many picks away. Yeah maybe. Raty has the pedigree and higher ceiling. Maybe we have to add to trade 4 to get Voronkov. I would strongly consider adding. He's on my projected roster as 4LW Cole is a solid vet, brings experience and versatility. Think he was injured in the playoffs If Mik is traded it won’t be to clear his cap. It would be straight up for a guy with similar cap, like JK or JG Pageau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Just now, BigTramFan said: His production was higher in DET than in VAN. And his cost is about to double. That doesn't scream an increase in value to me Your opinion is wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Just now, Alflives said: If Mik is traded it won’t be to clear his cap. It would be straight up for a guy with similar cap, like JK or JG Pageau. Agreed. Mikheyev still has value he's just overpaid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcBrett Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Awesome post, I really would not like to see Garland leave, but the reasoning is sound. For a good return, it would be hard to complain too much. The Voronkov deal feels like a longshot, its not unreasonable, but I have a hard time imagining that nobody would have a better offer for Voronkov if CBJ are willing to trade him. Solid ideas, the math on the cap looks good, the trades are believable for the most part. Its very realistic roster for the team next year if Allvin and JR plan to be very busy this offseason. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Voronkov is a beast and would be a massive addition if we could swing it. That's the problem with bottom dwelling teams, they accumulate all of this talent but can't fit it all into their roster puzzle. Really good players end up shaking loose. We need to take advantage and pick their bones. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 5 hours ago, BigTramFan said: I don't think Mikheyev gets moved for anything less than a 2nd round pick sweetener. And that is about where I value Garland, so was trying to avoid trading too many picks away. Yeah maybe. Raty has the pedigree and higher ceiling. Maybe we have to add to trade 4 to get Voronkov. I would strongly consider adding. He's on my projected roster as 4LW Cole is a solid vet, brings experience and versatility. Think he was injured in the playoffs I think he was injured in the playoffs as well, but he also trailed off after Xmas. I'd look for someone younger, personally. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted June 1 Author Share Posted June 1 15 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: I think he was injured in the playoffs as well, but he also trailed off after Xmas. I'd look for someone younger, personally. Dillon would be a great option if he would take $3m or less. Other UFA options are Edmundson, Reilly, De Haan, Kulikov in that $1m-3m range. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Trading a top pair RHD for a fourth line center and two seconds is absolutely an no 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 I like some of the ideas there, not all of them. Roy is a 25 point big solid RD, but 6M is a lot. Pesce is probably going to command that, Roy maybe a smidge less, around 5ish? In any case, one of those guys would be lovely for Hughes' partner. I really like Hakanpaa too for our bottom pairing and will probably be able to sign him cheaply. Cole then absolutely goes. Myers seems all but signed - is he still good enough for our 2nd pairing? He's going to have to be. That's one way to make our D a lot cheaper and still solid defensively. Hronek out, Myers + Hakanpaa + Roy/Pesce in. We lose some puck moving ability but remain sturdy on the right side. We'd have to keep Zadorov though and think we can with those moves. Hughes - Roy/Pesce (5-6M) Zadorov (5M) - Myers (3M) Soucy - Hakanpaa Then trading Hronek we can surely get some good pieces. Either we flip him for picks/prospects and take the cap savings and get depth guys or get a big fish like Necas. I'd almost rather the cap and then use it to sign Joshua, a winger and maybe someone like DeBrusk or Roslovic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket-68 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 7 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said: I like some of the ideas there, not all of them. Roy is a 25 point big solid RD, but 6M is a lot. Pesce is probably going to command that, Roy maybe a smidge less, around 5ish? In any case, one of those guys would be lovely for Hughes' partner. I really like Hakanpaa too for our bottom pairing and will probably be able to sign him cheaply. Cole then absolutely goes. Myers seems all but signed - is he still good enough for our 2nd pairing? He's going to have to be. That's one way to make our D a lot cheaper and still solid defensively. Hronek out, Myers + Hakanpaa + Roy/Pesce in. We lose some puck moving ability but remain sturdy on the right side. We'd have to keep Zadorov though and think we can with those moves. Hughes - Roy/Pesce (5-6M) Zadorov (5M) - Myers (3M) Soucy - Hakanpaa Then trading Hronek we can surely get some good pieces. Either we flip him for picks/prospects and take the cap savings and get depth guys or get a big fish like Necas. I'd almost rather the cap and then use it to sign Joshua, a winger and maybe someone like DeBrusk or Roslovic. https://www.canucksdaily.com/nhl-team/vancouver-canucks/important-update-on-tyler-myers-new-deal-willing-to-take-one-for-the-team Say it is so Joe Edited June 3 by Rocket-68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 On 5/31/2024 at 3:56 PM, Alflives said: No to trading Hronek for such a poor return. Don’t trade him it all. So much BS surrounding Hronek. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) On 5/31/2024 at 6:46 PM, VegasCanuck said: Not bad, my take would be, Trade #1, I would want their 1st and maybe a 3rd round pick in exchange for Hronek. He's worth it, anything less is underpay. Trade #3, I think if you separate out Garland, after his performance this year, he was a really valuable part of our team, he has trade value. I would try and package Mikheyev with 4th and maybe a 3rd from 2026. Trade #4, I don't think Raty and a 3rd will get you Voronkov and a 4th considering one guy has already proved he can put up 18 goals per season in middle 6 and the other hasn't shown he can transition to the NHL. Guentzel I think that Allvin and JR could use reputation to get him here about 8, maybe 8.5. I'd want him around what we pay Miller. Debrusk, I think is closer to 5 million on the open market. Cole, I'd let walk and look at younger options. He was solid earlier in the year but really faded after Xmas. If Friedman will accept that, it's okay based on his ability, he was a good fill in. I think the others are reasonable value wise, but other things to keep in mind for the coming season: Podkolzin will be on the team this coming year and likely Bains as well. Before he was injured, Brisebois was on the team and I don't think there's any reason to expect that to change next camp. Others who will really push, I think management see Karlsson as ready, Sasson could really surprise in camp, he had a really strong season in Abbotsford and although I thing they want Kudryavtsev to get a year in Abbotsford, he hasn't looked out of place in camp. Guentzal: 9.5 x 7. Is what it's likely going to take to win that sweepstakes. A steep price for sure. If he won't take 8 x 8 in CAR (at just over 40% taxes, also a contender) why in the world would he take a deal in Vancouver? Better chance he ends up in Vegas. At that price. As in 8 million x 7. Why? Because they are always in the running for marquee guys. And that's not likely to stop anytime soon. Yes i'd love him on our team, and it's not JR or Allvin that will make him decide to come here, it's likely Tochett. Edited June 3 by IBatch 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 On 5/31/2024 at 4:20 PM, BigTramFan said: His production was higher in DET than in VAN. And his cost is about to double. That doesn't scream an increase in value to me In the 1st half he was playing fantastic with Hughes and then started slumping after January. Rumour has it that he has been injured. Also, he has more value as an RFA than a UFA as he can be acquired and signed before the UFA frenzy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted June 4 Author Share Posted June 4 15 minutes ago, higgyfan said: In the 1st half he was playing fantastic with Hughes and then started slumping after January. Rumour has it that he has been injured. Also, he has more value as an RFA than a UFA as he can be acquired and signed before the UFA frenzy. Yes I agree with all of that, but I'm not sure what your point is? What I was saying is that I think Hronek's cost as a TDL acquisition in March 2023 (signed through the next season at $4.4m and with better stats than he had this year) is likely the same or higher than the cost to acquire him now. This is because he hasn't shown any significant individual improvement, he certainly hasn't shown he can drive his own pair, and he is likely to cost $7-8m on a long-term contract. We paid a 1st round pick + 2nd round pick to get Hronek + 4th round pick. Do you think teams looking to trade for him will accept Allvin's word that they should pay more for him because he was injured since January? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 14 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: Yes I agree with all of that, but I'm not sure what your point is? What I was saying is that I think Hronek's cost as a TDL acquisition in March 2023 (signed through the next season at $4.4m and with better stats than he had this year) is likely the same or higher than the cost to acquire him now. This is because he hasn't shown any significant individual improvement, he certainly hasn't shown he can drive his own pair, and he is likely to cost $7-8m on a long-term contract. We paid a 1st round pick + 2nd round pick to get Hronek + 4th round pick. Do you think teams looking to trade for him will accept Allvin's word that they should pay more for him because he was injured since January? Well, if what you are saying is how things will pan out, I would think the Canucks would sign him for way less than the$7-8m with term. I don't recall him getting a lot of time on a different pairing, probably not much of a chance to show if he can drive a pairing. He certainly played well with Hughes, who has had a record year. He has very good offensive instincts. When he stopped using that wicked shot from the point, his #s dropped rapidly. That is probably around the time his injury occured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted June 4 Author Share Posted June 4 8 minutes ago, higgyfan said: Well, if what you are saying is how things will pan out, I would think the Canucks would sign him for way less than the$7-8m with term. I don't recall him getting a lot of time on a different pairing, probably not much of a chance to show if he can drive a pairing. He certainly played well with Hughes, who has had a record year. He has very good offensive instincts. When he stopped using that wicked shot from the point, his #s dropped rapidly. That is probably around the time his injury occured. I don't dispute that Hronek is a good player. And I agree that he likely had an injury since January, which affected his performance. But we are talking about the value of trading his RFA rights. It has been reported that VAN already offered him 6.5m - 6.75m x 8 years, which has been rejected by Hronek. I understand his agent has told media they are looking in the $8m range for a long term deal. Seems likely VAN will make a QO well below $8m. And if Hronek still thinks he's worth $8m, then he will likely file for arbitration. None of that is heading towards a final outcome where Hronek is signed to way less than $7-8m with term. The most likely outcome I think would be an arb award of ~7.5m and then VAN gets to choose to take that outcome over 1 or 2 years, or just let him walk as a UFA (i.e. no assets returned). If VAN mgmt thinks things are trending towards arbitration, then I think they will strongly consider trading Hronek rights. How much will VAN get for his rights? Well I am saying it will be less than what VAN paid for him in March 2023 for reasons already stated. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 On 5/31/2024 at 3:15 PM, BigTramFan said: Trade 1: To NSH: Hronek rights To VAN: Fabbro + 2024 2nd round pick (TBL) + 2024 2nd round pick (WPG) Why? NSH looking for top pairing RD and Hronek asking too much for VAN. Trade 2: To OTT: Fabbro To VAN: Kastelic Why? OTT need a young defensively responsible RD. VAN need size in bottom 6. Kastelic is 6'3", 210 lb, RH center, career FO=56% Trade 3: To CHI: Garland + Mikheyev + 2024 4th round pick (VAN) To VAN: Future considerations Why? VAN dumping cap. CHI get 2 legit NHL'ers. Garland is great but VAN needs more size and goal scoring in top 6. Trade 4: To CBJ: Raty + 2024 3rd round pick (VAN) To VAN: Voronkov + 2024 4th round pick (CBJ) Why? Voronkov has potential to be a playoff monster. 23 years old, 6'5" 240lb, can play PP and PK, scored 18 goals last season. Signings: Guentzel - $9.5m x 7 Debrusk - $4m x 4 Joshua - $3.75m x 4 Blueger $2m x 3 Matt Roy - $6m x 7 Myers - $3m x 2 Hakanpaa - $2.5m x 2 Cole - $2.5m x 1 Friedman - $775k x 2 hronek for a 4th line C and two 2nd Round Picks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.