HKSR Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 On 6/1/2024 at 5:25 AM, tas said: it's a statement used by blowhards as an attempt to gatekeep and give themselves a phony sense of authority. disregard it out of hand because it's idiocy. I'm thinking of someone on here... won't name anyone... but you only get 1 guess. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: I'm thinking of someone on here... won't name anyone... but you only get 1 guess. someone who likes to accuse others of gatekeeping too, I bet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnstorm Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 4 minutes ago, HKSR said: I'm thinking of someone on here... won't name anyone... but you only get 1 guess. I’m offering 3 guesses but the first two don’t count. Time spent here improved dramatically once the ignore feature was enabled. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 On 6/1/2024 at 12:19 PM, RupertKBD said: I played a partial season in Junior B, back in the late 70's and it's not as big of a deal as it sounds....Junior B is a distinction that doesn't exist any more. (they rebranded it as "Tier 2 Junior A". All of the former Junior B teams started playing against teams like the Penticton Vees and Vernon Vipers, getting their asses kicked on a regular basis) As an example of the level of play, I was on the local Midget rep team a couple of years earlier. We had won a provincial championship (in those days, called the Wrigley Tournament and now the Telus Cup) and needed a "tune up" for the year end provincial playoffs. (which was completely separate from the Wrigley) We played a 2 game weekend set against the Spruce Kings and beat them both times. (They had already been eliminated from playoff contention, so their hearts weren't really in it, but still....) Anyway, I think there are definitely situations where having "been there, done that", does give you some insight. Things like what happens in the dressing room, for instance. A lot of non-players picture a scenario where the coach comes in between periods and gives the "Remember the Titans" speech, motivating the team to go out there and win. I can tell you that it's more common that the coach says very little and what he does say would be censored on network TV..... Same with between period "adjustments". Usually, that is more a case of the coach switching of lines, or defensive pairings, than it is saying something like, "Okay boys, this period we're going to start using the Left Win Lock", or whatever.... As far as the business side of the game goes, (contracts, UFA statuses, trades, etc) I think there are probably people out there every bit as knowledgeable, if not moreso than me....(depending on how closely they follow such things) I think the fact that there is so much information available in this day and age, has narrowed that gap to a point where it's not really a thing anymore. 2 cents from a former player.... Having an understanding of how the game communication is done is definitely beneficial for coming up with strategies and know how to best communicate them But this doesnt make you make you a better strategist I would argue though that great communication and good strategy is better than good communication and great strategy. In the same breath, the level of hockey also doesnt really matter. There are hall of famers who didnt even sniff the draft let alone play in the NHL I would even suggest some of the best hockey minds dont even get into the sport aside from watching it and being an armchair analyst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 On 6/1/2024 at 12:19 PM, RupertKBD said: I played a partial season in Junior B, back in the late 70's and it's not as big of a deal as it sounds....Junior B is a distinction that doesn't exist any more. (they rebranded it as "Tier 2 Junior A". All of the former Junior B teams started playing against teams like the Penticton Vees and Vernon Vipers, getting their asses kicked on a regular basis) As an example of the level of play, I was on the local Midget rep team a couple of years earlier. We had won a provincial championship (in those days, called the Wrigley Tournament and now the Telus Cup) and needed a "tune up" for the year end provincial playoffs. (which was completely separate from the Wrigley) We played a 2 game weekend set against the Spruce Kings and beat them both times. (They had already been eliminated from playoff contention, so their hearts weren't really in it, but still....) Anyway, I think there are definitely situations where having "been there, done that", does give you some insight. Things like what happens in the dressing room, for instance. A lot of non-players picture a scenario where the coach comes in between periods and gives the "Remember the Titans" speech, motivating the team to go out there and win. I can tell you that it's more common that the coach says very little and what he does say would be censored on network TV..... Same with between period "adjustments". Usually, that is more a case of the coach switching of lines, or defensive pairings, than it is saying something like, "Okay boys, this period we're going to start using the Left Win Lock", or whatever.... As far as the business side of the game goes, (contracts, UFA statuses, trades, etc) I think there are probably people out there every bit as knowledgeable, if not moreso than me....(depending on how closely they follow such things) I think the fact that there is so much information available in this day and age, has narrowed that gap to a point where it's not really a thing anymore. 2 cents from a former player.... Having an understanding of how the game communication is done is definitely beneficial for coming up with strategies and know how to best communicate them But this doesnt make you make you a better strategist I would argue though that great communication and good strategy is better than good communication and great strategy. In the same breath, the level of hockey also doesnt really matter. There are hall of famers who didnt even sniff the draft let alone play in the NHL I would even suggest some of the best hockey minds dont even get into the sport aside from watching it and being an armchair analyst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Johnny said: Having an understanding of how the game communication is done is definitely beneficial for coming up with strategies and know how to best communicate them But this doesnt make you make you a better strategist I would argue though that great communication and good strategy is better than good communication and great strategy. In the same breath, the level of hockey also doesnt really matter. There are hall of famers who didnt even sniff the draft let alone play in the NHL I would even suggest some of the best hockey minds dont even get into the sport aside from watching it and being an armchair analyst. I would agree with that. I've always said that one of the best indicators of a great coach is not so much the X's and O's, (you can have assistants for that kind of thing) it's understanding how to motivate your players.....which means one size does not fit all. We always hear about "player's coaches" and "hard liners", but I don't think you can be successful if that's your approach to every player on your roster. Some players respond to a pat on the back, while others only respond to a kick in the ass. The trick is to know which is which and the great coaches seem to be able to figure this out and push the right buttons on a consistent basis. Edited June 4 by RupertKBD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 Simple response to that: Ken Hitchcock. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olli Juolevi Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 17 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: Simple response to that: Ken Hitchcock. Not hockey, but Al Davis too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan since 82 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 On 6/1/2024 at 9:07 PM, BCNeil said: Sort of like you can never criticize any play ever. Because these are NHL players. With even the worst being a much better player than you ever were. Always think about Dale Wiese who was a 4th line guy in the NHL but became the Dutch Gretzky when he played in a NL league during one of the lockouts. It really winds me up when people call players useless, or crap...sure they might be fringe players and flounder their way through games but they are better than probably 99% of the rest of the hockey players in the world. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan since 82 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 On 6/1/2024 at 10:17 PM, grumpworsley said: I think each discussion analysis should stand on its own merit backed up by facts and not be subject to the appeal to authority fallacy but that's just me. Some people believe personal experience is a substitute for factual and actual analysis I agree except there are some intangibles that you can only know with actual experience. The pressure athletes face during big games is immense, and I don't think that you can intellectually understand it. You've got to be in it to really know what it's like. The physical toll the game takes on the body and mind is also something that can only really be understood with personal experience. Imagine racing into the corner to retrieve the puck knowing there's a 200lb guy skating full speed at you to smash you through the boards and into the 3rd row. The courage (stupidity?) to do that over and over through a 7 game series is mind blowing. These are just a couple of things that someone who has played the game understands more than the fan who never really played. I've never played and I know I don't understand those things. What gets me the most on any online forum is that you have no idea who anyone really is. For me when people point out too often that they played at a high level I tend to tune them out because it seems like they're trying too hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 On 6/4/2024 at 9:48 AM, HKSR said: I'm thinking of someone on here... won't name anyone... but you only get 1 guess. Does it rhyme with Prawns per chance? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nergish Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 (edited) On 5/31/2024 at 5:57 PM, grumpworsley said: Just curious how much credence people put into the statement "If you haven't played the game you don't know". In my opinion it is usually used to shut down a disagreement or discussion. I gotta admit I respect Friedman's comments as an informed sports journalist whether he be right or wrong, he generally has a good argument to back up his claims. Elliotte is a perfect example of not having to have played a sport to be able to have a nuanced understanding of it. I mean, I have to assume he can skate a bit, and at least enjoyed a game or two of pick-up in his youth... That said, it's pretty obvious when you hear Bieksa or someone like Justin Williams give their analyses; these guys are worth listening to. I know personally that I felt a tremendous amount of power whenever I played organized hockey as a goaltender, this game was one of few things that truly made sense to me growing up. Don't think I would be inclined to speak on it, if I hadn't played the game myself and found my own way to impact it. Edited June 5 by nergish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 31 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Does it rhyme with Prawns per chance? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bounce000 Posted June 5 Popular Post Share Posted June 5 I scored 96 goals and 160 points on NHL Be a Pro, so I'm somewhat of an expert. 2 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxNaslundxX Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 I never really considered it because i spent 100s if not 1000s of hours playing hockey as a kid. But my now adult analysis is seperate. How i see the game now has evolved from when i played and not from playing but by attentively watching my team, paying attention to player progression across the league and doing my own mock drafts. Theres a lot you can learn away from the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnstorm Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 4 hours ago, Bounce000 said: I scored 96 goals and 160 points on NHL Be a Pro, so I'm somewhat of an expert. Any interest in coaching a power play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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